DAC / Soundcard Purchase

[lordhades]

okay !!

So firstly i'd like to state that i'm new to this forum and i'm new to the audiophile community as such too. I've not gone asa fas as to call myself an audiophile because i'm unaware of exactly how precise my hearing capabilities are but i've always been crazy about quality so i thought i'd ask foe help here for my first major quality and music centric purchase.

I just got myself a new computer rig with the following specifications.

Gigabyte P67A UD7
Intel Core i7 2600k
AMD Radeon 6950
Corsair HX 850W PSU
Seagate Barracuda 1TB
Corsair 2x2 GB RAM

Now my next major purchase is either a soundcard or a standalone DAC. I've always wanted to buy a high end pair of headphone's so i got my choices down to two options.

The beresford 7520 since its got amazing reviews and has a built in headphone amp.

The asus xonar essence stx. This card seems to be a really amazing card with all the capabilities of an DAC plus more.

So my question us which one should i buy ? My main criteria is listening to music. Games and movies dont matter that much though i will be using my computer for that too.

Also my total budget is 30k for the DAC/Soundcard and speakers. For the speaker's i totally fell in love with the Swan M200 MkII but it has severe availability issues in india so i settle for the audioengine a5. If there is a better speaker config i can get i'd love to know it. Plus i dont mind a sub-woofer too since the a5 is just a set of bookshelf speakers.

So those are the two questions.

Thanks in advance.

 

[spirovious]

You can get xonar 1st,you may like sound with its analoge out.If you need further improvement,add a DAC (connected with coax out).
Both will have headphone option.

 

[lordhades]

One query though. I've heard you guys mention analogue out, optical out, co-axial out, etc. I'd like to know what exactly these points are. And does the xonar have a normal 3.5 mm jack ? Or only these compicated jacks ?

Also is the audioengine a5 a good choice for the card ?

 

[spirovious]

Analoge is analoge out & optical/coaxial are digital out.
Xonar(ST/STX) has bigger headphone jack where you can connect 3.5mm HP with converter.
A5 is good speaker option.

 

[ravi_d]

Now my next major purchase is either a soundcard or a standalone DAC. I've always wanted to buy a high end pair of headphone's so i got my choices down to two options.

The beresford 7520 since its got amazing reviews and has a built in headphone amp.

The asus xonar essence stx. This card seems to be a really amazing card with all the capabilities of an DAC plus more.

So my question us which one should i buy ? My main criteria is listening to music. Games and movies dont matter that much though i will be using my computer for that too.

Also my total budget is 30k for the DAC/Soundcard and speakers. For the speaker's i totally fell in love with the Swan M200 MkII but it has severe availability issues in india so i settle for the audioengine a5. If there is a better speaker config i can get i'd love to know it. Plus i dont mind a sub-woofer too since the a5 is just a set of bookshelf speakers.

So those are the two questions.

Thanks in advance.

You can get xonar 1st,you may like sound with its analoge out.If you need further improvement,add a DAC (connected with coax out).
Both will have headphone option.

I don't think you would need a sound card if you have an external DAC. Its better to choose either a sound card or a DAC based on the requirement.

Beresford is a good option. Go for the Caiman model. Use the spdif out of your computer to the DAC and enjoy hyeah:

BTW where are you getting the Swan M200 MkII from?

 

[hydra]

Also is the audioengine a5 a good choice for the card ?

I use a Beresford Caiman with a Audioengine A2 myself and I must say the A2s sound a lot better with the Caiman feeding them. I'm sure the benefit with the A5s will be the same.

I also bought the Caiman specifically for using it as a DAC and as a Headphone Amp.

One query though. I've heard you guys mention analogue out, optical out, co-axial out, etc. I'd like to know what exactly these points are. And does the xonar have a normal 3.5 mm jack ? Or only these compicated jacks ?

In very simple terms:
Analogue out = ordinary RCA pair (or 3.5mm socket), transferring an analogue signal.
Optical out = a sort of connection that transfers digital data (to a DAC, in this context).
Coaxial out = a sort of connection that transfers digital data (to a DAC, in this context). This connection looks like a single RCA jack.

The Xonar D2X has a regular 3.5mm analog-out socket. And I think it also has both Coaxial & Optical-outs.

Basically, if you are planning to use the Xonar instead of the 7020, you'll be using only the 3.5mm analogue out socket (to drive your headphones). The Optical and Coaxial outs can be used only to connect the soundcard to an external DAC or some other device that takes a digital input.

As others have pointed out, you really don't need a sound card if you are getting a DAC. If you want to go overboard, you can get a cheap soundcard with an optical or coaxial out and use that to give input to the 7020

The 7520 has a USB-in and you can use that to get the audio signal from the computer. If your computer motherboard has an optical-out (SPDIF) or a coaxial-out, you will most likely get a better source signal from one of those.

 

[ravi_d]

As others have pointed out, you really don't need a sound card if you are getting a DAC. If you want to go overboard, you can get a cheap soundcard with an optical or coaxial out and use that to give input to the 7020

The 7520 has a USB-in and you can use that to get the audio signal from the computer. If your computer motherboard has an optical-out (SPDIF) or a coaxial-out, you will most likely get a better source signal from one of those.

Looks like OP's Mother Board already has an optical and co-axial out. No need for any cheap sound cards.

 

[lordhades]

thank you for all the suggestions and the info but i'd still like to know if there's a better option for my speaker's, preferably a 2.1 setup.

Also, in a few reviews i've read that USB connection in a DAC is better than the Optical connection and vice versa so what really would be the best setup incase i just buy a DAC directly. You've rightly pointed out that my motherboard has all the connectivity options but is there a possibilty that connecting a DAC through a soundcard's optical out will give a better output than a inbuilt optical out ?

And i need finite opinions, should i get the soundcard or the DAC or should i get both(incase there is a quality improvement, i'll have to save up more money though)? I've already listed my criteria. Mainly music with a little bit of gaming and movies.

I'm not getting the Swan M200 MkII as such though i have an option of asking a friend who goes to texas every year to search for them. I feel slightly uneasy doing that though because i know he couldn't be bothered about whether it looked like a set of speaker's when he finally got back. Thats why i settled for the A5 since it's availiable in india. The DAC i saw had been bought by a few members by this forum so i thought that would be a safe option too.

 

[spirovious]

I don't think you would need a sound card if you have an external DAC. Its better to choose either a sound card or a DAC based on the requirement.

Beresford is a good option. Go for the Caiman model. Use the spdif out of your computer to the DAC and enjoy hyeah:

BTW where are you getting the Swan M200 MkII from?

Well I am talking abt Bit-perfect-
http://www.hifivision.com/home-theater-pc-htpc-media-pc/12373-bit-perfect-sound-output-your-pc.html

 

[lordhades]

thank you all for your inputs.

I still would love to know if there's a better option for speaker's preferably with a subwoofer. I want a 2.1 setup.

Also i realise buying a DAC after a soundcard kinda defeats the purpose but i was wondering whether the output from the built in optical out of my motherboard might be lower in quality compared to the optical out of the soundcard. Will there be a difference ?

I've read in a few reviews about the different frequencise supported by a soundcard or a DAC based on the connection being used. What i mean is that some reviews say that the DAC works better with the optical out than the USB and vice versa. So what really would be the perfect option ?

And i'd like finite opinions now. Should i take the soundcard or the DAC or both (i'll have to save up a little more for that but i dont mind if there's a boost in quality) ?

I'm not getting the swan speakers as such. I fell in love with them but reading about how impossible it is to get a pir to india kinda ruined it for me. I have a friend who goes to texas every year but i feel uneasy asking him to get me a pair because i'm dead sure he wont realise the sanctity of the product that he's buying(i sound so melodramatic). If he damages them i'll kill him so i settled for the A5. Easily availiable in india. I know that the beresford has availiability issues too but there seem to be a few forum members who've made the purchase through the help of you guys so i though i'd do the same.

Anyhow, my main criteria is listening to music with regular gaming and movies thrown into the mix. Movies and games can sound below par and i couldn't care less but music is a priority so depending on that please advise. Also keep in mind that i might go for a pair of headphones after some time.

 

[lordhades]

thank you all for your inputs.

I still would love to know if there's a better option for speaker's preferably with a subwoofer. I want a 2.1 setup.

Also i realise buying a DAC after a soundcard kinda defeats the purpose but i was wondering whether the output from the built in optical out of my motherboard might be lower in quality compared to the optical out of the soundcard. Will there be a difference ?

I've read in a few reviews about the different frequencise supported by a soundcard or a DAC based on the connection being used. What i mean is that some reviews say that the DAC works better with the optical out than the USB and vice versa. So what really would be the perfect option ?

And i'd like finite opinions now. Should i take the soundcard or the DAC or both (i'll have to save up a little more for that but i dont mind if there's a boost in quality) ?

I'm not getting the swan speakers as such. I fell in love with them but reading about how impossible it is to get a pir to india kinda ruined it for me. I have a friend who goes to texas every year but i feel uneasy asking him to get me a pair because i'm dead sure he wont realise the sanctity of the product that he's buying(i sound so melodramatic). If he damages them i'll kill him so i settled for the A5. Easily availiable in india. I know that the beresford has availiability issues too but there seem to be a few forum members who've made the purchase through the help of you guys so i though i'd do the same.

Anyhow, my main criteria is listening to music with regular gaming and movies thrown into the mix. Movies and games can sound below par and i couldn't care less but music is a priority so depending on that please advise. Also keep in mind that i might go for a pair of headphones after some time.

 

[venkatcr]

Looks like OP's Mother Board already has an optical and co-axial out. No need for any cheap sound cards.

It has been my experience that a good sound card is more important than an external DAC.

Cheers

 

[ravi_d]

Well I am talking abt Bit-perfect-
http://www.hifivision.com/home-theater-pc-htpc-media-pc/12373-bit-perfect-sound-output-your-pc.html

Thanks for the link but I'm sorry I don't get why you still need a cheap sound card when you have an on-board spdif/co-axial out.

I have optical out on my laptop and I use WASAPI plug-in for foobar2000 to bypass the windows unnecessary processing. I'm happy with the result and I'm planning for a DIY upgrade of the DAC power supply to see any improvement.
The good thing is my DAC recognises the bit rate of the source I'm playing in foobar. I tried 44.1 kHz to Vinyl rip 96kHz sources and all work find without any re-sampling at the sound card end.
When I use standard output (non WASAPI) on foobar then the sound card re-samples all outputs to 44.1 kHz bit rate irrespective of the source.

It has been my experience that a good sound card is more important than an external DAC.

Cheers

Hi Venkat,
I couldn't try sound cards as I use a laptop.

I think as far as Hi-fi is concerned a DAC is more of a stereo component than a sound card which is for movies/gaming/music.

I was thinking before a good sound card like the Asus Xoanr is must for using computer as a source.
I had to change my perception after reading about Asus releasing an Asus Essense One DAC with an on board Audiophile grade head phone amp targeting at the Audiophile market. Would they be recommending using the Essence One DAC to their Xonar sound cards spdif out by-passing the on board DAC on the sound card? I don't think that would happen and I guess that is designed to use directly with the USB/spdif out put of computer.

The Asus DAC thing is not necessary here but from my understanding what I meant to say is DAC is an another way to do the same thing as a sound card except the ADC part.

 

[spirovious]

A good internel SC can output correct digital data with very less noise/jitter than onboard one.So if you output a good digital signal to DAC,sound can be accurate.

http://www.hifivision.com/home-theater-pc-htpc-media-pc/11017-cheap-optical-out-soundcard.html

 

[magma]

please download an article called " the art of building computer transports"
its difficult to find but it answers many of the above questions like why the digi out of a good sc will prevail over the mobo digi out

see here
http://www.hifivision.com/home-theater-pc-htpc-media-pc/3703-music-pc-ca-dacmagic.html

in fact it advices use of PCI cards over PCI-E!

it optimises your system for music
in fact it builds a MUSIC PC NOT an HTPC
according to the article windows and other resorces are so well optimised that music comes first nothing else
basic idea is build the pC just enough for it to play music with no latencey errors
DONT overdo the processor or OS
in fact a p4 is more than sufficient and it does well since its not to difficult to keep the environment cooler and more silent using less resorces

according to the articel EVERYTHING in your PC affects it
even a USB mouse!

My entire source PC is modelled around this article
and i ve rarely heard a source that betters my own

 

[spirovious]

a comparison of DACs-
Which DAC to choose for your Computer?

 

[lordhades]

please download an article called " the art of building computer transports"
its difficult to find but it answers many of the above questions like why the digi out of a good sc will prevail over the mobo digi out

see here
http://www.hifivision.com/home-theater-pc-htpc-media-pc/3703-music-pc-ca-dacmagic.html

in fact it advices use of PCI cards over PCI-E!

it optimises your system for music
in fact it builds a MUSIC PC NOT an HTPC
according to the article windows and other resorces are so well optimised that music comes first nothing else
basic idea is build the pC just enough for it to play music with no latencey errors
DONT overdo the processor or OS
in fact a p4 is more than sufficient and it does well since its not to difficult to keep the environment cooler and more silent using less resorces

according to the articel EVERYTHING in your PC affects it
even a USB mouse!

My entire source PC is modelled around this article
and i ve rarely heard a source that betters my own

I found the article and though its very enlightening, i will unfortunately be unable to follow all the instructions there since my computer is also meant to be an HTPC and a Gaming rig. I've kept the article safe though and i might try building a Music Computer in the future so thank you for the input.

@Spirovious - that article too was very informative and I've done a lot of research since the time i posted this query and I've settled down with two options.

NuForce Icon HDP and Beresford Caiman.

I've been trying to find a retailer for the Caiman in India and have been unlucky so far so if you guys have any info about where i can purchase it i'd like to have it.

I found a retailer for the Icon in Bangalore and one of my friends is there so if its a no go with the caiman i will end up buying the Icon. But just for the sake of reference, which one is better, the Caiman or the HDP ?

 

[ravi_d]

I found the article and though its very enlightening, i will unfortunately be unable to follow all the instructions there since my computer is also meant to be an HTPC and a Gaming rig. I've kept the article safe though and i might try building a Music Computer in the future so thank you for the input.

@Spirovious - that article too was very informative and I've done a lot of research since the time i posted this query and I've settled down with two options.

NuForce Icon HDP and Beresford Caiman.

I've been trying to find a retailer for the Caiman in India and have been unlucky so far so if you guys have any info about where i can purchase it i'd like to have it.

I found a retailer for the Icon in Bangalore and one of my friends is there so if its a no go with the caiman i will end up buying the Icon. But just for the sake of reference, which one is better, the Caiman or the HDP ?

@lordhades
Not a bad idea. Even I use the DAC from the optical out of my laptop and I'm quite happy with it.
The Caiman has to be ordered from UK. Here is the link
Digital Audio

The NuForce Icon HDP is also a good DAC. What is the quoted price for the NuForce DAC?

 

[lordhades]

Somewhere between 20k and 25k. Not really sure though. My friend still has to go to the shop but i'm assuming thats how much its going to be.

You mentioned ordering the caiman from the UK. How long does it take to deliver ? I'm not much into online shopping and stuff so forgive me if i sound retarded, you sure its going to arrive ?

 

[lordhades]

ravi_d just saw the link you posted. there are three different versions of the caiman ? Confusion !!

Now whats the difference between the Caiman SEG and the Caiman Se+ ?