Deafness, tinnitus and the invisible toll of loud music

[sud98]

So, I am not alone. I too have tinnitus, Audiogram suggests very mild hearing loss. It's really annoying, that persistent ringing in ear. My tinnitus is not due to audio exposure though, it's probable origin is chronic allergic cold I believe.

Has any treatment been effective against it? Allopathic or Ayurvedic or anything else?

Another non audio related Tinnitus sufferer. Mine was by a football hitting my ear while playing. Had to undergo surgery for the rupture, but still didnt help.

Since Tinnitus can be caused by many reasons, different causes can have ways to alleviate the sound. For example, if the hair cells are damaged, they never get cured, as its one of the few cells that are not replenished or repaired. Same with bone damage, but with with a rupture, you can do surgery.

If is sinus related, you can solve your sinus and you should see improvements.

 

[sumitkpandit]

While we are talking about hearing here, I have noticed I cannot hear anything outside 200 Hz to 15,000 Hz. While human audible range is said to be 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz. May be my system cannot produce those.

We watch movies at 72 dB with silent moments being around 57 dB and peaks hitting as high as 81 dB. Ambient noise stays at 54 dB with silent moments being around 41 dB and max loudness hitting 74 dB.

I have measured this using an android app called Sound Meter. I do not know if it is A weighted or C weighted. I don't know exact difference between both but I know that C weighted is preferred for calibration. May be because, it can measure low frequencies better?

And...

+ Angry Wife - 200 dBA

You have a soft-spoken wife.

 

[Prasada]

While we are talking about hearing here, I have noticed I cannot hear anything outside 200 Hz to 15,000 Hz. While human audible range is said to be 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz. May be my system cannot produce those.

We watch movies at 72 dB with silent moments being around 57 dB and peaks hitting as high as 81 dB. Ambient noise stays at 54 dB with silent moments being around 41 dB and max loudness hitting 74 dB.

I have measured this using an android app called Sound Meter. I do not know if it is A weighted or C weighted. I don't know exact difference between both but I know that C weighted is preferred for calibration. May be because, it can measure low frequencies better?

And...

You have a soft-spoken wife.

Hi Sumit, Don't worry. As we age, our hearing range decreases. A rough formula for the upper limit is given by 200 x (110 - age). So if your age is around 35, you can expect to hear upto 15000 hz. The lower limit seems a bit off. If you have some decent headphones, I'd suggest you to repeat the test using them. Cheers!

 

[kratu]

If I were given a chance to caution my 25-year old self, I’d request him to reduce the use of earphones/headphones. They became widely popular with the advent of iPod and subsequently with the smartphones. It became fashionable to use it outdoors; on the street, while commuting. Little do youngsters know that the levels they are listening to are unsafe. To deaden the noise outside, they would bump up the volume totally oblivious to the damage being done. This is one of the causes of early hearing loss.

Fortunately, I was warned early on and I didn’t use it so much on the streets. However, I did use it indoors extensively. One of my fears of using headphones is that with some mishap, I would blow my ears. Unfortunately, that is not impossible. And that did happen and it led to a minor tinnitus issue. If not for a sudden burst, it could damage gradually.

 

[OM_2K19]

And...

You have a soft-spoken wife.

You bet...

 

[Love4sound]

so how many here have tinnitus and still use your systems? I had extremely loud Tinitus and hence stopped using it from December and never watched a movie or listened to any music using the system for 6 months straight. Past 3 months I watched only 3 movies using my system at extremely low volume levels -25db. I was watching many regional movies using tv speakers to keep myself occupied and I used to have my fan at full speed to mask the Tinitus or some times use a white noise through my phone playing it in the background to deviate my mind from listening to the horrible Tinitus .Any one here having tinnitus and have been using your systems occasionally without aggravating the tinnitus? I have that fear if I start using my HT regularly it will aggravate my tinnitus. Luckily the treatment that I am in for the past 8 months helped reduce the sound by 30-45%. If it had not reduced I would have gone mad as it was that loud. To give an idea how loud it was imagine your phone say an iPhone for reference ringing at 80% volume.

 

[kratu]

so how many here have tinnitus and still use your systems? I had extremely loud Tinitus and hence stopped using it from December and never watched a movie or listened to any music using the system for 6 months straight. Past 3 months I watched only 3 movies using my system at extremely low volume levels -25db. I was watching many regional movies using tv speakers to keep myself occupied and I used to have my fan at full speed to mask the Tinitus or some times use a white noise through my phone playing it in the background to deviate my mind from listening to the horrible Tinitus .Any one here having tinnitus and have been using your systems occasionally without aggravating the tinnitus? I have that fear if I start using my HT regularly it will aggravate my tinnitus. Luckily the treatment that I am in for the past 8 months helped reduce the sound by 30-45%. If it had not reduced I would have gone mad as it was that loud. To give an idea how loud it was imagine your phone say an iPhone for reference ringing at 80% volume.

Oh that sounds bad. I've had mild tinnitus since around six years. It bothers only when there is dead silence, at night. I'm not sure if it subsided or I got used to it, but its not a problem. I take care not to aggravate the issue further. I know the pain it would lead to.

What kind of treatment have you got? What was the cause of the problem?

 

[Love4sound]

Oh that sounds bad. I've had mild tinnitus since around six years. It bothers only when there is dead silence, at night. I'm not sure if it subsided or I got used to it, but its not a problem. I take care not to aggravate the issue further. I know the pain it would lead to.

What kind of treatment have you got? What was the cause of the problem?

Due to loud noise damage I have minimal hearing loss. I was playing loud action sequences for 3-4 hours continuously on a daily basis for testing my subwoofer. My ENT has prescribed medications to take daily and it seemed to help.

 

[kratu]

Due to loud noise damage I have minimal hearing loss. I was playing loud action sequences for 3-4 hours continuously on a daily basis for testing my subwoofer. My ENT has prescribed medications to take daily and it seemed to help.

Okay. So, it was mostly the low frequencies that made significant damage? You mentioned that you were playing those loud sequences for testing your subwoofer. That leads to the deduction that these more mostly < 200Hz sounds. How long did this testing go till you found there was a problem? It helps to know the limits and where to draw the line. What would advice us all to prevent such issues?

 

[Love4sound]

Okay. So, it was mostly the low frequencies that made significant damage? You mentioned that you were playing those loud sequences for testing your subwoofer. That leads to the deduction that these more mostly < 200Hz sounds. How long did this testing go till you found there was a problem? It helps to know the limits and where to draw the line. What would advice us all to prevent such issues?

Even though the testing was for subwoofer the damage was not due to low frequencies.Xtz just goes down till 19hz and should play at 100-105db where as many have Multi subs that do 120-130 dB,so for sure I can say subwoofer is not what caused the damage. Every bass heavy scenes will have high frequencies at high spl. For a week I was daily testing such scenes for 4-5 hours non stop. This pattern is not advised IMO. Even if I watched 2-3 movies continuously on a daily basis it wouldn’t have caused any damage cause your ears are not exposed to loud action sequences continuously. And just cause it happened to me it doesn’t mean it will happen to someone else.

 

[kratu]

Even though the testing was for subwoofer the damage was not due to low frequencies.Xtz just goes down till 19hz and should play at 100-105db where as many have Multi subs that do 120-130 dB,so for sure I can say subwoofer is not what caused the damage. Every bass heavy scenes will have high frequencies at high spl. For a week I was daily testing such scenes for 4-5 non stop. This pattern is not advised IMO. Even if I watched 2-3 movies continuously on a daily basis it wouldn’t have caused any damage cause your ears are not exposed to loud action sequences continuously. And just cause it happened to me it doesn’t mean it will happen to someone else.

I understand that it is not necessarily low frequency thumps that caused the damage. I understand that special effects could also have mid-high frequency sounds. Well, it certainly must have been a beating for those ear drums.

I was going through your previous posts. I see that you stay near airforce and can constantly hear loud sounds of jets/choppers. That's a lot to take in. I'm wondering if that also has some minor part (directly or indirectly)

 

[Love4sound]

I understand that it is not necessarily low frequency thumps that caused the damage. I understand that special effects could also have mid-high frequency sounds. Well, it certainly must have been a beating for those ear drums.

I was going through your previous posts. I see that you stay near airforce and can constantly hear loud sounds of jets/choppers. That's a lot to take in. I'm wondering if that also has some minor part (directly or indirectly)

Based on my tests results I have high frequency hearing loss in the 1khz-4khz regions. This is clear indication of over exposure to my system which the ENT also confirmed. Jets/choppers taking off are just sudden burst and within a 500-600 meter distance I guess the loudness level should be within 100-110db from the terrace but inside the home with all doors closed it should be in a safe level. I have been living here for 6 plus years and tinnitus started during November end which was the time I was doing all these tests.

 

[kratu]

Based on my tests results I have high frequency hearing loss in the 1khz-4khz regions. This is clear indication of over exposure to my system which the ENT also confirmed. Jets/choppers taking off are just sudden burst and within a 500-600 meter distance I guess the loudness level should be within 100-110db from the terrace but inside the home with all doors closed it should be in a safe level. I have been living here for 6 plus years and tinnitus started during November end which was the time I was doing all these tests.

Okay I understand. One thing that I also notice is that a person can be oblivious to the damage being caused. There could be discomfort in the ears or temporary ringing. This could eventually go dull, further leading to more damage. In a way, Tinnitus is a serious alarm that something hazardous has occurred in the system.

 

[Love4sound]

Tinnitus is a serious alarm that something hazardous has occurred in the system.

Yeah true. I am part of a FB global group for tinnitus sufferers and the impact it has in one’s life is horrible.Most cases it’s due to hearing loss and loud noise damage. But few suffer with Tinnitus but no hearing loss or loud noise damage and the root cause remains a mystery.

 

[Hari Iyer]

I once asked my mother how loud should my music play. She replied -" As loud as my voice and not more". I try to apply this golden rule as much as possible. This is around 65 dBA or less. It's easy to setup volume listening to vocals and adjusting to normal conversation.

 

[shibashis]

So since this thread was started, I took a closer look at my listening habit in terms of loudness. OP deserves a lot of credit for starting this thread.
Over the last few days, I paid close attention to how I listen and at what volumes.
I come away with the affirmation that I am someone who thinks he likes to listen to music 'loud'. I have discovered now courtesy of the Sound Meter app on my phone that for me loud means 80db, anything above that is pretty discomforting. I would rather not continue listening to music at 80db for more than say 15 minutes, it becomes irritating after that.

 

[Hari Iyer]

So since this thread was started, I took a closer look at my listening habit in terms of loudness. OP deserves a lot of credit for starting this thread.
Over the last few days, I paid close attention to how I listen and at what volumes.
I come away with the affirmation that I am someone who thinks he likes to listen to music 'loud'. I have discovered now courtesy of the Sound Meter app on my phone that for me loud means 80db, anything above that is pretty discomforting. I would rather not continue listening to music at 80db for more than say 15 minutes, it becomes irritating after that.

How did you calibrate this app? Do you have a SPL meter for calibration?

 

[kratu]

@shibashis That's good to know. It is better to be safe than sorry. Without music life can be unbearable.

"Exposure to sound above a level of approximately 85 dB initially manifest as a temporary hearing loss or dullness of hearing that is known as temporary threshold shift (TTS), which may have fast resolution within first 10-15 days of the exposure. However, a repeated or sustained exposure of noise to the hair cells and associated nerve fibers leads on to degenerative changes and the TTS becomes permanent threshold shift (PTS). The effect of excessive noise could be so devastating that it can cause permanent memory loss or psychiatric disorder."
https://www.ima-india.org/ima/left-side-bar.php?pid=196

Well, it is bit scary to know that the problem of exposure to excessive noise goes beyond hearing loss. The damage could also affect psychologically. Tinnitus is a condition that we still don't have a clear picture. There might be some alteration in the nerve/brain cells. Tinnitus can also lead to Depression.

"Listening to loud music, especially on headphones, is a common cause of noise-induced hearing loss.The degree of a hearing hazard is related to both the level of the noise and the duration of the exposure" (Indian Medical Association)
Reducing or avoiding headphones/earphones completely can help us reduce the possibility of hearing loss/tinnitus.

 

[sumitkpandit]

The lower limit seems a bit off

You were right. I repeated the test again with my monitoring headphones and I realized I was able to hear much lower frequencies. Also, it is very hard to distinguish if it is even a sound coming from headphones when it is very low frequency.

 

[sumitkpandit]

I went to my nearest IMAX for watching Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings and took reading of how loud it was playing. From my seat which was in the second last row, I measured that the peaks were no more than 88 dB. That makes me understand that there is absolutely no reason to hear on volumes higher than that.

Most people bump up the volume to be able to hear soft spoken dialogues properly while watching movies, including me as I live beside a highway. But a better solution would be to block sounds by closing doors and windows, reducing fan speed and may be even putting some sound boards to reduce ambient noise level instead of trying to make the system sound louder.

Not only this will prevent all kinds of problems associated with high volumes but also make the content more enjoyable with less ear fatigue and no need to shout to talk with your friends about that awesome scene you just saw.

And yes, this thread should be pinned somewhere in the forum for it is the only one which is an essential among everything else in the forum which is desires or wants.