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DENON 500AE + Wharfedale 9.5 is it missing something.

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#1
Hi All,

I am very new to HiFi.
I used to listen music (mostly mp3 128kbps - 320kbps) on computer using Senheiser mx300 ear phones which used to give very clean and good sound. I wanted to buy a music system with similar quality to use seperated (with out computer).

So I went to a shop (Vector Systems) and bought an amplifier and speakers suggested by the guy in that showroom. I listened to Wharfedale Diamond 9.5 connected to Denon 200x & Marantz700x amplifiers as the suggested model is not there with them. I saw good reviews for Wharfedale Diamond series so i decided to go with 9.5 and purchased with Denon PMA500AE amp as it is coming with in my budget of 40K (the guy offered me the 9.5 demo spkrs for 22k). I purchased a normal sony dvd player DVP-SR650. When i connected all these at my home i am getting good sound but not that detailed as compared to my ear phones.

Can anybody tell me what went wrong?
Is it the amp (i could not get more reviews on it and what hifi mag said it is a poor amp.)?
Is it because of the ordinary DVD player or the bundled interconnects between dvd and amp?

Please give me some advise to correct this situation.
 
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murali_n

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#2
Hai Murthy,

Try connecting a good CD Player like Marantz. If you are specific about DVD Player Cambridge Audio Model DV99 will serve your purpose. What Interconnects do you use between DVD and Amp? What speaker cables are you using. All these things add a lot to the sound quality.

For a Budget you can use Monster IC from MX Electronics = Rs.700/-
For Speaker cables you can use 16 AWG wire @ Rs.100/- (approx) per metre. Search in this forum threads you will come across the local dealer.

Also dont test and judge your system with MP3 material. Test with well mastered CDs.

N.Murali
 
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#3
Hi Murali,

First of all, Thanks a lot for your reply.

I am using the interconnects supplied with the dvd player. They look like the normal ones available in any electrical/electronic shops. And i am using the speaker cables (make: Designer audio, price Rs85/metre) suggested by the vector systems guy. He initially suggested monster cable costing Rs250/metre but i asked for little cheaper one.

And regarding the MP3 material, the same songs sounded well on my earphones which costs rs2500. And i have tried a couple of cds also which sounded good but not very detailed.

Actually my doubt is the amp (i bought it in a hurry with out checking for reviews and listening to it.) but i am not sure. what i would like to know can i improve the sound to a good extent with out spending too much amount(<5k) from now.
 
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#5
Murthy, You're unlikely to get the level of detail you used to get with your earphones with this setup. Neither the Denon amps nor the wharfedale floorstanders are known for being very detailed. There would have been other options that would have given you more detailed sound, but perhaps at the expense of low frequency extension. You can of course tweak around with cables and your source, but I wouldn't anticipate a dramatic difference because the amp an speakers are not that detailed.

I've actually listened to lots of budget setups and nothing really matched the level of detail of my Audio Technica headphones.

Of course junking the MP3s and going for pure redbook audio CD should give you a lot of improvement both in detail and dynamic range. But otherwise I can't think of much you can do that will give you significant benefits.

Let me ask you one more thing? When you heard the combination in the shop was it more detailed than it is sounding at home? In that case it could have a lot to do with speakers positioning (you can search through these forums to find many threads on speaker positioning). You need to give the floorstanders a good bit of clear air around them for them to perform their best, and there are other small tweaks with regard to postioning the speakers and your curtains and cushions and so on that could have an impact.
 
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#6
I couldn't get a chance to listen to this combination as the shop does not have this amp ready for the audition. I listened to a marantz pm 700x and denon 200x with these speakers and they were a bit more detailed. I thought the denon is a good brand so expected similar thing and bought (i couldn't control my temptation as it was diwali occasion.).

Now.. Will the monster interconnects suggested in this thread bring some details (currenty i am using the normal interconnects bundled with the sony dvd player)

And by any chance, the Marantz or NAD amplifiers (<20K) give more detailed and good sound compared to DENON 510AE (there is a remote chance of giving the amp back and get a new one).
 

ash147

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#7
hi murthy

as rightly said by psychotropic, changing the interconnects won't make much of a difference in the sound output.since u are now a owner of denon amp enjoy your music thoroughly.I don't think the music output is so bad as being projected.our desires have no limit.so my suggestion would be to get a few original CDs , not mp3, switch on ur music system, close ur eyes and enjoy the music instead of cribing that I don't have a good amp.denon is supposed to be one of the good cos in the audio world and wharfs too are a good pair.

NJOY UR MUSIC
 

magma

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#8
to the OP

your speakers are fine
so is your amp ( a bit underpowered but that shouldnt affect the details as much as you say)

as a member has expalined to you earlier - please do not compare the detail that you get out of earphones to a speaker

even cheap headphones will do better details

what you gain with speakers is depth, air, soundstaging and a feel that you dont get with earphones
look for these characteristics

Each(headphones and speakers) have their own clientele

please do not get into the rut of upgrade so as to try and reach the level of detail which you get from a headphone.
to do that you have to spend a lot ( and even then theres no gaurentee)

the "little bit extra detail" that you may hear in a studio or audition room as compared to your home is because of the treatments , positioning etc in the audition room which you dont have at home
 
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#9
One more doubt i have. I am using the interconnects supplied with the dvd player. Is it the weakest link in this setup?

should i consider the speaker cables also (i am using designer audio cables costing Rs85/-).

Ofcourse the sound produced by the speakers is not at all bad. My wife and myselft found it is better than our bose computer speakers (Companion) and we liked the sound also. only thing is that some details are missing which i expected.

Ofcourse i will try to use CDs instead of mp3s atleast for my favorite songs..
 

dinyaar

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#10
Hi All,

I am very new to HiFi.
I used to listen music (mostly mp3 128kbps - 320kbps) on computer using Senheiser mx300 ear phones which used to give very clean and good sound. I wanted to buy a music system with similar quality to use seperated (with out computer).

So I went to a shop (Vector Systems) and bought an amplifier and speakers suggested by the guy in that showroom. I listened to Wharfedale Diamond 9.5 connected to Denon 200x & Marantz700x amplifiers as the suggested model is not there with them. I saw good reviews for Wharfedale Diamond series so i decided to go with 9.5 and purchased with Denon PMA500AE amp as it is coming with in my budget of 40K (the guy offered me the 9.5 demo spkrs for 22k). I purchased a normal sony dvd player DVP-SR650. When i connected all these at my home i am getting good sound but not that detailed as compared to my ear phones.

Can anybody tell me what went wrong?
Is it the amp (i could not get more reviews on it and what hifi mag said it is a poor amp.)?
Is it because of the ordinary DVD player or the bundled interconnects between dvd and amp?

Please give me some advise to correct this situation.
You have not really gone wrong!!!! I guess your dealer erred in pairing an amp which is a shade laid back with a speaker thats not the most revealing and hence u feel a lack of detail.
Please do not use the sound of ur headphone to judge the HIFI. I for one cannot bear the headphones for any considerable amount of time.
U could do better than a DVD player for stereo. The first upgrade if possible should be a budget CDP. Something from Marantz. A HOME AUDITION before u buy is a given. Then change the cables if u have the inclination and the budget for it.
Am glad u didnt buy the monster he was trying to sell. Would have been no 'upgrade' in sound.
A good IC/speaker cable need not be an expensive one, rather a well specified, well made one. One can make very decent cheap cable with a bit of DIY and some guidance. The IC is rather important and the one thrown in with budget gear is junk so sooner or later u will need to invest in something sensibly priced that works for u.
All set ups have their plus and minuses regardless of price. As u go higher the law of diminishing returns really kicks in.
Lastly get some well recorded cds at least to judge the gear.
Rgds
 
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#12
I have a DenonPMA380 amp(used) and Wharefale 8.3. And they sound quite good together. First of all i dont think comparing to headphones is not right(two different things). Try to change the source and see if that makes any difference. I feel both the Denon and wharfedale(8.3) are warm and quite laidback(for the lack of better words).

And of course there is some difference when i hear from CA DV99 rather than Sony NS78H.

Cheers
S
 

murali_n

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#13
Mr.Murthy,

The Monster Interconnects will indeed make a very noticeable diff to the sound quality. Try connecting a dedicated CDP, these 2 may add that missing details which you are looking for. Also check for the polarity of the speakers, if by mistake you have reversed it.

N.Murali
 
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#14
I will get the monster Interconnects now.
I will take the CDP later as my budget will not allow me to take one.
I will try playing more CDs in DVD player meanwhile.

can a DAC (i think i can connect pc also then) gives the similar quality compared to CDP?

And the Speaker polarities are correct.
 
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#15
okay, i believe i have seen information on this forum (from cranky) that this monster IC marketed by MX is not worth going for. I don't have any personal experience but I just thought I'd flag this fact. At the same budget you could look at stereo ICs from Bandridge as well.

I will get the monster Interconnects now.
I will take the CDP later as my budget will not allow me to take one.
I will try playing more CDs in DVD player meanwhile.

can a DAC (i think i can connect pc also then) gives the similar quality compared to CDP?

And the Speaker polarities are correct.
 
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#16
how does it sound when u plug your earphones to the amp now ? I have seen very good detailing when i plug in seinheisser with denon .. In this case u will still be using ur amp and dvd player.
 

srikarkav

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#18
Hi murthy,

Your audio design cables are fine.Don't try to change them. IMHO your DVDP is the weakest link.A stereo amp and fine speakers like the 9.5s deserve a CDP.Give the speakers some time (like 150 hours) to get a good burn in too. I accept you may not be able to go for a CDP immediately.But it should be the next star on your horizon.

cheers,
sri
 

Asit

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#19
Hi Murthy,

You have reasonable amp and speakers. That should serve you well. However, your weakest links are the source and the cables.

Solving the source is simple, although will cost you money. Nad, CA and Marantz have some CDPs in the budget range, and you can also get used. Nothing wrong in settling for an used product if it has been maintained well. Many people in this forum do that and are very happy.

Solving the cable problem is more complex, because there are myths and also people have varied opinions about them. While it is perfectly true that cables cannot and should not improve the sound quality, but poor quality cables can surely degrade sound. The stock cables that come with audio/video equipments are generally poor. You need reasonable cables (both CDP to amp Interconnect and speaker cables) at a good price. Opinions vary tremendously on this, as you must have noticed already in this thread. My observation is that good cables do not come very cheap, for whatever reason. I find Cranky's suggestion on the Blue Jean cable a good one.

I have experimented a lot with budget Interconnects approximately in the range Rs 1K to Rs 2K. I am not in favour of spending an obscene amount on cables, but slowly over the years have realized that the cables have to be good enough for the system (hopefully without spending a lot). Another thing I have realized is that one cannot judge a cable when new, one needs to use it (called burning in) for 20 hours to 150 hours (depending on the cable) and then only one can judge it finally. Cables are risky business.

Regards.

PS: I would recommend two people in this forum (gobble and magma) who in the last few months to a year have experimented a lot on different things, including budget cables. I am sure there are others, but I have had some interaction with these two. You can try to contact them directly and see what you can learn from their experiences.
 
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#20
Yesterday i went to croma and saw some interconnects.
1. Profigold stereo rca cable (Rs500/2meters)
2. Bandridge stereo interconnect (Rs999/1meter)

logically the Bandridge one may be good as it is priced high but will it make a audible difference.

And is there a diff. between the stereo rca cable and stereo interconnects (both connectors seem to be of same type except the bandridge one is looking good)
 
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