Denon X1600H Problem - Help

[darkblack]

I am so happy to be here again. I had a Onkyo HTIB. After getting the receiver serviced once, after some help from you guys in 2017, last year in September it breathed it’s last. Then I went on to buy Denon X1600H from Audioholics after discussing with them if my existing Onkyo speakers can be used and just the receiver replaced.

All went well, till first week of March (last month), when suddenly the Denon X1600H went suddenly into the Protection Mode after a thapp from all speakers. This happened a couple of times. I had a quick chat with Praveen who blamed the speakers and that something might be wrong with them. He anyways advised me to hand it over to Pro-FX. They tested the amp for a while and they could reproduce the issue after several hours of testing and after holding the amp for about 10 days, returned it saying problem is fixed. When I asked Pro-fx (Mr. James) what the problem was, they said "connector" issue.

Meanwhile when the amp was in service, I checked all speakers, connectors for any terminals touching each other? All my speaker cabling is concealed through dedicated conduits and all the speakers themselves seem good physically. Also earthing was also checked.

When I got back the amp, reconnected it, re-configured it using the suggested cross over settings and all went well. Praveen (Audioholics) asked me never to use "all channel stereo" mode which he said might be too much for my existing speakers and hence just used the DTX/Dolby mode. All went well till last weekend again the problem started re occurring. Nothing was changed, nothing was moved or touched.

When I got into touch with Pro-Fx again, he was very courteous and told me that he can take the amp back again and he cannot do much but to test again and see if the protection mode comes and try to fix the issue by considering clues.

I am a little perturbed that device of this complexity does not display error codes that can pin point to actual problems. Even my 13 year old washing machine has 2 digit error codes for so many different problems and the manual clearly explains what could cause those error codes to occur and it’s easy to troubleshoot!

Now, this being the case, what do you suggest me to do?

1) How do I find if the Onkyo speakers are at fault? Is there a way to troubleshoot the speakers independently (they all seem to be sounding perfectly normal. Of course they are out of warranty and 10+ years old. I am in no position to completely change the speakers unless they are not working properly. I am happy with whatever performance or quality they offer.

2) I asked Praveen if he could lend me a bookshelf or any pair of speakers for a week that I can connect to the amp (just the speakers) via external wiring and test it, but he does not seem to have any such unit with him, so that plan failed.

3) What alternative plan do you guys suggest. Thanks!

My Onkyo speaker specs as attached.

 

[OM_2K19]

Well, my hunch is the Max input power of 130W of your speakers is way too much for X1600H to handle causing the AVR to overheat. As per X1600's spec. it can handle 80W at 8 Ohm in 2 channel mode. Probably it will come down to 60W per channel in case of a 5 channel set-up. Add some cooling Fan, hoping it will prevent the AVR from overheat.

 

[dillihifi]

No dont think that is the issue. The speakers are 8ohms and should be absolutely fine with the avr. The maximum input power refers to highest power u can pump without running the risk of speaker blow out. The issue must be with the avr.

I had an harmon kardon which displayed similar issues and finally it died.

 

[darkblack]

Well, my hunch is the Max input power of 130W of your speakers is way too much for X1600H to handle causing the AVR to overheat. As per X1600's spec. it can handle 80W at 8 Ohm in 2 channel mode. Probably it will come down to 60W per channel in case of a 5 channel set-up. Add some cooling Fan, hoping it will prevent the AVR from overheat.

I can rule out thermal shut down, the unit is pretty cool and is very well ventilated.

 

[darkblack]

How do I find if the Onkyo speakers are at fault? Is there a way to troubleshoot the speakers independently

Any help on this?

 

[argho]

I think the only way forward is to test with a different set of speakers

 

[Michelangalo]

Try connecting in stereo mode ( just 2 speakers) test it for few hours and see if you encounter the same issue. If not then add two more speakers and test again. Repeat this till you have connected all speakers. This way you can rule out if any of the speakers have any issues or if it's the power issue.

 

[darkblack]

Yea, this is what I started yesterday. I just connected the Optical In from TV and ran just amp with the sub woofers for an hour or so yesterday. For the rest of the sound, I just used the TV speaker. Went well. Will try to add just a pair of surround speakers and try stereo mode tomorrow onwards.

Try connecting in stereo mode ( just 2 speakers) test it for few hours and see if you encounter the same issue. If not then add two more speakers and test again. Repeat this till you have connected all speakers. This way you can rule out if any of the speakers have any issues or if it's the power issue.

Meanwhile if somebody 3-4 kms radius from Anna Nagar who can lend me a good working pair of surround, bookshelf or similar for testing also will be a big help

 

[premoddev]

Yea, this is what I started yesterday. I just connected the Optical In from TV and ran just amp with the sub woofers for an hour or so yesterday. For the rest of the sound, I just used the TV speaker. Went well. Will try to add just a pair of surround speakers and try stereo mode tomorrow onwards.

Meanwhile if somebody 3-4 kms radius from Anna Nagar who can lend me a good working pair of surround, bookshelf or similar for testing also will be a big help

If subwoofers are active, it doesn't take any load from the AVR. Try with front LR first, then add center and subsequently rear surrounds..

 

[darkblack]

If subwoofers are active, it doesn't take any load from the AVR. Try with front LR first, then add center and subsequently rear surrounds..

Noted. Will do as you say.

 

[ssf]

Actually, active subwoofers, ie, woofers with their own amp, do take the load off the receiver. All frequencies below the crossovers are directed to the sub and the amp in the AVR does not have to handle the low bass frequencies which put a strain on the receiver.

Also, your existing speakers specs look fine.

 

[VRavichandar]

It is very likely that you have already done it, but just verify that your receiver is set for 8ohm speaker load.

 

[VRavichandar]

I have also observed that certain "rips" caused my denon to go into protection mode - this was happening in only certain files and that too at certain positions of playback in the file. Other files played without any issues.

 

[amrutmhatre90]

Something similar had happened to one of my Pioneer AVR. Front channels for center channel used to pop and go into protection mode on all type of sources.

Few things to check:
- None of the wires are have wrong polarity.
- Check the AV receivers connectors, does it have wire strands which stick out or are present without any speakers connected. Best way to connect is using banana plugs.
- Do you have pets? I had a issue on my recent AVR were in dogs single hair was stuck between the connectors causing protection mode.
- Ohm settings on your AVR are set right, though this wouldn't cause much problem.

Coming to my old AVR which had problems, they replaced the whole unit completely. Earlier they were supposed to change the board but being a 2 month old receiver I demanded it doesn't make sense. The service center guys were very friendly and kept on updating me. They even provided me with a spare AVR to check if the problem occurs, and it did not.

Takeaways from this scenario:
- Check if the protection mode comes up if no speakers are connected. If it does, AVR is at 100% fault.
- Most of the time, a single bad IC can cause it to go in protection mode. But our service center guys may or may not check in depth for it, they simply swap the whole board. Which in turn is costly compared to changing a IC.
- Check if protection mode occurs at cold starts or only when it gets warm.
- Never remove or connect any HDMI cable or any kind of connectors to the receiver when it is ON. This can cause short and maybe a reason for it going into protection mode.
- If Speakers are old, they may have internal issues which cause the terminals to connect somehow internally which cause a short and then a protection mode. Though this is a very rare scenario.
- Check the AVR with a different source of electrical connection, sometimes the wiring is done wrong but it never bothers us and we continue to use it.
- Provide a dedicated electrical line to the AVR, don't have multiple connections on the line. AVRs need clean powerline to keep them running properly for years.
- Leave the AVR unused and removed from the power outlets for a day or 2 and then try after draining the capacitors.

Hope some of these solutions help you.
Keep us posted on the results.

 

[darkblack]

Something similar had happened to one of my Pioneer AVR. Front channels for center channel used to pop and go into protection mode on all type of sources.

Few things to check:
- None of the wires are have wrong polarity.
- Check the AV receivers connectors, does it have wire strands which stick out or are present without any speakers connected. Best way to connect is using banana plugs.
- Do you have pets? I had a issue on my recent AVR were in dogs single hair was stuck between the connectors causing protection mode.
- Ohm settings on your AVR are set right, though this wouldn't cause much problem.

Coming to my old AVR which had problems, they replaced the whole unit completely. Earlier they were supposed to change the board but being a 2 month old receiver I demanded it doesn't make sense. The service center guys were very friendly and kept on updating me. They even provided me with a spare AVR to check if the problem occurs, and it did not.

Takeaways from this scenario:
- Check if the protection mode comes up if no speakers are connected. If it does, AVR is at 100% fault.
- Most of the time, a single bad IC can cause it to go in protection mode. But our service center guys may or may not check in depth for it, they simply swap the whole board. Which in turn is costly compared to changing a IC.
- Check if protection mode occurs at cold starts or only when it gets warm.
- Never remove or connect any HDMI cable or any kind of connectors to the receiver when it is ON. This can cause short and maybe a reason for it going into protection mode.
- If Speakers are old, they may have internal issues which cause the terminals to connect somehow internally which cause a short and then a protection mode. Though this is a very rare scenario.
- Check the AVR with a different source of electrical connection, sometimes the wiring is done wrong but it never bothers us and we continue to use it.
- Provide a dedicated electrical line to the AVR, don't have multiple connections on the line. AVRs need clean powerline to keep them running properly for years.
- Leave the AVR unused and removed from the power outlets for a day or 2 and then try after draining the capacitors.

Hope some of these solutions help you.
Keep us posted on the results.

Thanks a lot for taking the time for this explanation. Much appreciated. The AVR along with TV has separate power line. No dog inside the house (though we have dachshund mostly outside the living areas . Rest of the points are mostly covered / checked already.

The AVR even though all the speakers were disconnected and just the sub connected and running started going into protection mode. So I guess there is something wrong with it. Just packed it off to Pro-FX. Hopefully they find a fix. I am sure you get the feeling when you think something is fixed and the same problem comes immediately again!!

Will keep you all posted. Thanks once again.

Thanks guys for all your help and points.

 

[Shanmugam]

Where did you get your onkyo serviced in Chennai.

 

[ShantaramChari]

I am so happy to be here again. I had a Onkyo HTIB. After getting the receiver serviced once, after some help from you guys in 2017, last year in September it breathed it’s last. Then I went on to buy Denon X1600H from Audioholics after discussing with them if my existing Onkyo speakers can be used and just the receiver replaced.

All went well, till first week of March (last month), when suddenly the Denon X1600H went suddenly into the Protection Mode after a thapp from all speakers. This happened a couple of times. I had a quick chat with Praveen who blamed the speakers and that something might be wrong with them. He anyways advised me to hand it over to Pro-FX. They tested the amp for a while and they could reproduce the issue after several hours of testing and after holding the amp for about 10 days, returned it saying problem is fixed. When I asked Pro-fx (Mr. James) what the problem was, they said "connector" issue.

Meanwhile when the amp was in service, I checked all speakers, connectors for any terminals touching each other? All my speaker cabling is concealed through dedicated conduits and all the speakers themselves seem good physically. Also earthing was also checked.

When I got back the amp, reconnected it, re-configured it using the suggested cross over settings and all went well. Praveen (Audioholics) asked me never to use "all channel stereo" mode which he said might be too much for my existing speakers and hence just used the DTX/Dolby mode. All went well till last weekend again the problem started re occurring. Nothing was changed, nothing was moved or touched.

When I got into touch with Pro-Fx again, he was very courteous and told me that he can take the amp back again and he cannot do much but to test again and see if the protection mode comes and try to fix the issue by considering clues.

I am a little perturbed that device of this complexity does not display error codes that can pin point to actual problems. Even my 13 year old washing machine has 2 digit error codes for so many different problems and the manual clearly explains what could cause those error codes to occur and it’s easy to troubleshoot!

Now, this being the case, what do you suggest me to do?

1) How do I find if the Onkyo speakers are at fault? Is there a way to troubleshoot the speakers independently (they all seem to be sounding perfectly normal. Of course they are out of warranty and 10+ years old. I am in no position to completely change the speakers unless they are not working properly. I am happy with whatever performance or quality they offer.

2) I asked Praveen if he could lend me a bookshelf or any pair of speakers for a week that I can connect to the amp (just the speakers) via external wiring and test it, but he does not seem to have any such unit with him, so that plan failed.

3) What alternative plan do you guys suggest. Thanks!

My Onkyo speaker specs as attached.

The same issue occurred with one of my friends avr too. The fix was easy, mostly solder joints were having cracks which led to this problem. If you can open your avr and can check the solder joints you will find many of them.

Hope ur avr gets fixed asap

 

[Shanmugam]

Did you get your AVR fixed

 

[Phani24]

Yesterday I had the same issuexwith DenonS 750 avr. I removed the power connections need to check.

 

[SpinnCrash]

Same exact issue with my x1600H. Haven't tried to get it repaired yet. But I have tried it with medium/large speakers, and a full set of bookshelf speakers. Both situations suffered the same result - loud ping hitting all my speakers and AVR drops into protection mode.
That makes 2 of us. How many others are seeing the same problem?
I replaced the Denon with a Marantz. Problem solved.