DIY Open Baffle Experiment
- Thread starter aashish351
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aashish351
Well-Known Member
I think I am getting used to the Open Baffle Sound as I am mostly doing the casual listening on those... With all kinds of music, the most striking difference is in the "naturalness" of sound. Without the box, the instruments sound more realistic to my ears. The other most favourable difference (as per me) is in negligible overhang of bass.... The mid-bass is faster and tighter.
And, with the subwoofer switched on at the lowest volume just to support the low bass notes... the sound is complete but still retains the character. I can only imagine the improvement after adding a H-frame Subwoofer!
And, with the subwoofer switched on at the lowest volume just to support the low bass notes... the sound is complete but still retains the character. I can only imagine the improvement after adding a H-frame Subwoofer!
jaudere
Well-Known Member
Since I have built open baffles, I have never thought about upgrading speakers. All I am experimenting with the tweeter. I recently changed the Piezos to
Iwai silk domes. these are tiny ones but provide better high frequency
Iwai Electronics Pvt. Ltd.
Since they have given nominal impedance to be 6 ohms, I tried 3.3 MicroF caps so that I get 1st order high pass filter somewhere around 8khz but the sound was not pleasing. So i studied the impedance graph again. It seemed that the frequency where I intend to use the tweeters has impedance at about 4 ohms. obvisouly, for 4 ohm, the 3.3uf works as high pass filter at 12kHz. I do not have frequ response curve generator but I am sure it would have shown big dip between 9Khz and 12KHz.
So now I needed 5 microF capacitor. I also wanted to try something different than electrolytics. I decided to go ahead with MPP caps used on fans. The only sterngth available was 2.5microF. So I put 2 caps in parallel to achieve 5microF value. Now this gave me great sound. Better than the Piezos and 4.7microF electrolytics. The Frequency response curves and impedance curves of drivers help quite a lot in choosing the right compoonents.
Somewhere I read that MPP caps are better than electrolytics but are comparitively very big. With big open baffle speakers, who cares about the size?
I have also changed my soundcard from onboard to Asus Xonar DG. At present I am using its optical out to feed my DAC. Yet to try its analogue out. Will do it once I get my preamp (expected to get it by Monday). Will start a new therad about all the recent changes that i have made to my system.
The small active XO in the link that you have provided has XO frequency from 50Hz to 2.5KHz. Not useful for me because I need it to be about 8KHZ.
Iwai silk domes. these are tiny ones but provide better high frequency
Iwai Electronics Pvt. Ltd.
Since they have given nominal impedance to be 6 ohms, I tried 3.3 MicroF caps so that I get 1st order high pass filter somewhere around 8khz but the sound was not pleasing. So i studied the impedance graph again. It seemed that the frequency where I intend to use the tweeters has impedance at about 4 ohms. obvisouly, for 4 ohm, the 3.3uf works as high pass filter at 12kHz. I do not have frequ response curve generator but I am sure it would have shown big dip between 9Khz and 12KHz.
So now I needed 5 microF capacitor. I also wanted to try something different than electrolytics. I decided to go ahead with MPP caps used on fans. The only sterngth available was 2.5microF. So I put 2 caps in parallel to achieve 5microF value. Now this gave me great sound. Better than the Piezos and 4.7microF electrolytics. The Frequency response curves and impedance curves of drivers help quite a lot in choosing the right compoonents.
Somewhere I read that MPP caps are better than electrolytics but are comparitively very big. With big open baffle speakers, who cares about the size?
I have also changed my soundcard from onboard to Asus Xonar DG. At present I am using its optical out to feed my DAC. Yet to try its analogue out. Will do it once I get my preamp (expected to get it by Monday). Will start a new therad about all the recent changes that i have made to my system.
The small active XO in the link that you have provided has XO frequency from 50Hz to 2.5KHz. Not useful for me because I need it to be about 8KHZ.
Since I have built open baffles, I have never thought about upgrading speakers. All I am experimenting with the tweeter. I recently changed the Piezos to
Iwai silk domes. these are tiny ones but provide better high frequency
Iwai Electronics Pvt. Ltd.
Since they have given nominal impedance to be 6 ohms, I tried 3.3 MicroF caps so that I get 1st order high pass filter somewhere around 8khz but the sound was not pleasing. So i studied the impedance graph again. It seemed that the frequency where I intend to use the tweeters has impedance at about 4 ohms. obvisouly, for 4 ohm, the 3.3uf works as high pass filter at 12kHz. I do not have frequ response curve generator but I am sure it would have shown big dip between 9Khz and 12KHz.
So now I needed 5 microF capacitor. I also wanted to try something different than electrolytics. I decided to go ahead with MPP caps used on fans. The only sterngth available was 2.5microF. So I put 2 caps in parallel to achieve 5microF value. Now this gave me great sound. Better than the Piezos and 4.7microF electrolytics. The Frequency response curves and impedance curves of drivers help quite a lot in choosing the right compoonents.
Somewhere I read that MPP caps are better than electrolytics but are comparitively very big. With big open baffle speakers, who cares about the size?
I have also changed my soundcard from onboard to Asus Xonar DG. At present I am using its optical out to feed my DAC. Yet to try its analogue out. Will do it once I get my preamp (expected to get it by Monday). Will start a new therad about all the recent changes that i have made to my system.
The small active XO in the link that you have provided has XO frequency from 50Hz to 2.5KHz. Not useful for me because I need it to be about 8KHZ.
Try downloading some cross-over simulators from the net. This will help to review the Frequency and time domain response before you actually build the cross-over. With the simulator you can work and tailor the response of the cross-over to your requirement before you actually build them. You can also review the driver response, the filter response and the combined response with them. the SPL, impedance, phase, group delay etc. are some of the graphs that are typically available. The pre-requisite is that you will require the TS parameter of the driver to begin with the simulators.
jaudere
Well-Known Member
Hari, I really appreciate your suggestions. However I must admit that I am a 'semi DIYer'. Omishra cooks his own food (as per his signature). You may say that I don't cook but at least cut vegetables and put the gas on! . After reading alot, I am drifting away from using active XO for various reasons 1) The present speakers are giving me satisfaction 2) active XOs are complicated for me with a lot of mess with cables 3) Measurements are even more complicated for me. So I have chosen the simplest path : Open baffle design, full ranger without filter and tweeter with 1st order high pass filter (simple capacitor). I have come to conclusion that this simple design is better than many complicated and expensive speakers that I have heard in my short journey in Hi-Fi world. .
. After reading alot, I am drifting away from using active XO for various reasons 1) The present speakers are giving me satisfaction 2) active XOs are complicated for me with a lot of mess with cables 3) Measurements are even more complicated for me. So I have chosen the simplest path : Open baffle design, full ranger without filter and tweeter with 1st order high pass filter (simple capacitor). I have come to conclusion that this simple design is better than many complicated and expensive speakers that I have heard in my short journey in Hi-Fi world. .
Last edited:
vktarun
Active Member
Hi Jaudere,
I appreciate your Open baffle Experiment/project and the achievements. I remember, I experimented a lot with various types of baffles including open baffle around five years back. The problem with open baffle was lack of bass and in case of Infinite it was frustrating boxy mid range even in case of reputed brands and the journey seems to be never ending. finally I came across Magnepan Speakers and settled down with MG-12 model. Now I feel happy with what I hear.
For crossovers it is always advisable to used MPP capacitors (the type shown in picture) for best results. and 14AWG wire for winding the Inductors. I will suggest not to use electrolytic capacitors in Speaker networks as it will introduce grain type distortion and phase shifts.
Happy Listening
I appreciate your Open baffle Experiment/project and the achievements. I remember, I experimented a lot with various types of baffles including open baffle around five years back. The problem with open baffle was lack of bass and in case of Infinite it was frustrating boxy mid range even in case of reputed brands and the journey seems to be never ending. finally I came across Magnepan Speakers and settled down with MG-12 model. Now I feel happy with what I hear.
For crossovers it is always advisable to used MPP capacitors (the type shown in picture) for best results. and 14AWG wire for winding the Inductors. I will suggest not to use electrolytic capacitors in Speaker networks as it will introduce grain type distortion and phase shifts.
Happy Listening
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jaudere
Well-Known Member
What do you think about the MPP capacitors that are used in fans. The value is perfect for me 2.5uF although I don't need 440V and they are meant to work on AC. I mean something like this
http://product-image.tradeindia.com/00111899/b/0/MPP-Capacitor.jpg
http://product-image.tradeindia.com/00111899/b/0/MPP-Capacitor.jpg
Dear Jaudere, simplest is the best, isn't it?
I think the Ahuja 12 inch full ranger can have a phase plug and be more effective in high frequency range. I was in the middle of the experiemnt of this phase plug addition.
Want to try? Read Decware's phase plug design principle and apply Helmholtz's resonance cavity size for the plug, you will not be disappointed. Cutting out the dust cap of the Ahuja is simple with half part of a blade.
I think the Ahuja 12 inch full ranger can have a phase plug and be more effective in high frequency range. I was in the middle of the experiemnt of this phase plug addition.
Want to try? Read Decware's phase plug design principle and apply Helmholtz's resonance cavity size for the plug, you will not be disappointed. Cutting out the dust cap of the Ahuja is simple with half part of a blade.
If those are MPP caps then they will do well in a crossover, make sure they are not the oil filled motor-start caps.
In the past I have used Keltron motor-run caps in crossovers with good results. I would say the sound quality is in par with the more expensive audio-grade MPP caps. The only downside from my perspective is the large size - see it for yourself here - http://www.hifivision.com/diy/14433...udspeaker-philips-fullrange-7.html#post214682
How is the TL project going on. Was eager to know.
jaudere
Well-Known Member
Thanks Antony for your inputs. I rechecked on Jimcap website. The one I am using is for fans. They have different range for motor start. However I couldn't find whether they are oil filled or no. By the way there is no crossover as such. I just have added caps as high pass first order filter. The full ranger is crossover less/filterless.
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