DIY Open Baffle Experiment

[Rajiv]

Hi,

While searching, I found a thick monofilament cable there. The shopkeeper told me that it is used for earthing. Bought 2 metres for Rs.28 . To look for change, I changed internal wiring of only 1 speaker (from speaker terminal to full ranger and from full ranger to tweeter replaced with this new earthing monofilament cable). Guess what, there was a HUGE improvement.

As an experiment,try getting some copper wire that is used to wind motors/transformers.Get it from a good shop.

Scrape of the enamel insulation at the ends and use it for the connection from woofer to tweeter.Try 22 or 24 gauge .

Let us know how it sounds.

Regards
Rajiv

 

[jaudere]

Sumanta, tweeters need to be parallel to full ranger and not in series. Was it a typo?

 

[Sumanta]

Jaudere, I just checked an earlier photograph of my first Ob configuration. You are right, they are in parallel.
It was not a typo from my side, an ignorance I would say.

The capacitor is on the (positive?) wire before the tweeter.

 

[keith_correa]

I tried something new today. My right tweeter was having some problem due to loose connection. I decided to change cable to good one. The local hifi shop was closed so I went to local eletcrical shop. While searching, I found a thick monofilament cable there. The shopkeeper told me that it is used for earthing. Bought 2 metres for Rs.28 . To look for change, I changed internal wiring of only 1 speaker (from speaker terminal to full ranger and from full ranger to tweeter replaced with this new earthing monofilament cable). Guess what, there was a HUGE improvement. I heard few songs whiel changing left to right intermittently. The separation of instruments was superb and the lower and higher frequencies were better with more improvement in the higher ones.. Previously I used to keep either Loud switch of my amp on or I neede to use equalizer for lowermost frequencies on Foobar. Now I don't need either of these. To be doubly sure, I fed right speaker with left amp channel and vice versa. The superiority was persistent. The speaker with new cable was far better than the other. It was as if there was some veil on one speaker while that on the other was removed. The background score now could be easily heard separate from main voice. Guitar strumming was much clear. Cymbals were crystal clear with nice long decay, the initial sound of 'Radha kaise na jale' from ' Lagan' gave goose bumps and mind well, this difference was appreaciable between right and left speaker. So it was direct A/B comparison and not comparison of present experience with past. My family members who did not know that I had done modification unanimously chose the speaker with new cable as the better one. such a huge improvement cost me only Rs 28. . I don't understand why this happened. Either my previous internal cables were of poor quality or this monofilament cable has to do something with it. Need to read further. Hari and other Gurus, can you please explain this phenomenon? Is monofilament cable superior in conduction?

Good for you! I tried single core wires to connect the speakers of my el-cheapo mini-compo and I found a difference too.

Can you post a pic. of the cable you bought? Stripped at one end if possible.

 

[jaudere]

@ Sumanta: yes. The cap has to be on +ve of tweeter. I don't have any idea whatsoever about phase plugs. .@ Keath: will try to post pic but my camera does not have focusing. So close up is an issue. Will also try to find out similar wire image from net. . . Guys, I am in for some more experimentation. Read a lot about solid core vs stranded vs Cat5 cables on various forums. Got a long piece of scrapped Cat5 cable from my IT department.Now I will try DIY Cat5 based cable on one channel (the one explained on TNT audio) and solid core copper cable (same earhing cable) on the other side. Lets see.

 

[keith_correa]

@ Sumanta: yes. The cap has to be on +ve of tweeter. I don't have any idea whatsoever about phase plugs. .@ Keath: will try to post pic but my camera does not have focusing. So close up is an issue. Will also try to find out similar wire image from net. . . Guys, I am in for some more experimentation. Read a lot about solid core vs stranded vs Cat5 cables on various forums. Got a long piece of scrapped Cat5 cable from my IT department.Now I will try DIY Cat5 based cable on one channel (the one explained on TNT audio) and solid core copper cable (same earhing cable) on the other side. Lets see.

OK, the CAT5 cable will consist of 8 twisted pairs of wire. One single strand from one twisted pair is 24AWG. Before trying various CAT5 recipes, try connecting 1 single strand per pole for internal wiring of the other speaker - and now do an AB comparison with the other speaker that you re-wired. Am eagerly waiting for your findings.

 

[jaudere]

Each cat5 has 8 strands. Importantly, each starnd has its own insulation. Will try what you say but I need some clarification. Do you mean that I should run single small starnd from speaker terminal to woofer and from woofer to tweeter. Each strand is solid core copper wire . The earthing wire I am using is also solid core copper cable but thicker than a single strand. Shall I expect any improvement with thinner wire of same material?

 

[keith_correa]

Each cat5 has 8 strands. Importantly, each starnd has its own insulation.

Sorry - my mistake. You are right. There are 4 twisted pairs so 8 strands in all.

Will try what you say but I need some clarification. Do you mean that I should run single small starnd from speaker terminal to woofer and from woofer to tweeter. Each strand is solid core copper wire . The earthing wire I am using is also solid core copper cable but thicker than a single strand. Shall I expect any improvement with thinner wire of same material?

Yes, I meant for you to run 1 single strand from terminal to +ve of woofer and 1 single strand from terminal to -ve of woofer. Ditto for the tweeter.

Each strand is solid core copper wire . The earthing wire I am using is also solid core copper cable but thicker than a single strand. Shall I expect any improvement with thinner wire of same material?

We will never know till you try it hyeah: Go man, go.

 

[jaudere]

Am I being a guinea pig here? Won't mind as long as the experiment does not cost me a bomb

 

[keith_correa]

Am I being a guinea pig here?

Yes.

Won't mind as long as the experiment does not cost me a bomb

It won't.

 

[aashish351]

Have tried the cat5 idea long time ago... Wasn't convinced at that time. But it will be worth to try again on exposure and Dali and OB. Still have the cable!

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

 

[jaudere]

Here are my impressions.
The basic cable was a thick stranded wire with figure of 8 winding.(I don't know the gauge but quite thick, manufactured by Chetan cables). It was being sold as speaker cable at 40 Rs/meter when I bought it 2 years back.

I combined 2 solid earthing wires for each pole of speaker terminal.

The earthing cable was clearly superior to the stranded cable. There was better extension at upper as well as lower end and reduced noise.

Then I used Cat5 cable. Each pole had 2 cat5 cables (16 strands per pole). Still the solid wire was superior. The bass and treble was consistently superior with earthing cable. Male vocals were almost same and female vocals appeared better on Cat5 intermittently. There appeared to be less body to the music with Cat5 , probably due to weaker bass. The finding remained same when only 1 cat5 cable was used per pole (8thin strands) rather than 2

I did not compare Cat5 to the original stranded cable.

All the findings were same when my wife, who was blinded to the cable used, listened to various songs. To be doubly sure,I swapped speakers but the finding remained same. The solid wire was consistently better than Cat5.

So till now, my vote goes to solid cable for speaker wire as well as for internal wiring.:yahoo:

Keith, I am yet to try your recipe. Will try it tomorrow.

 

[keith_correa]

I combined 2 solid earthing wires for each pole of speaker terminal.

Can you also try with just 1 of your solid cored cable per pole and see if it sounds the same as 2 of your solid cored cable per pole as it exists?

Also, your current 2 solid cored cables per pole - are they twisted together?

 

[jaudere]

I will try the single solid core cable. The two cables in a pair are not twisted together over the whole length. Only the tips (about 1cm) are twisted together.

 

[jaudere]

In further progress with my experiments,

1 solid core cooper wire is as good as 2 put together. I tried something further. I vaguely remember that a fellow HFVian had tried biwiring (adding cat5 cable to regular wire). i am unable to find the thread but I remembered that he found good improvement. So I tried same thing. It really works.So each terminal has a solid core copper wire (earthing) and a cat5 cable. This was another A/B comparison with one channel having only solid copper cable and the other having combination. When I connected similar cable combination to other speaker, the difference vanished.The difference was again better highs and lows with same for vocals.

So, in past I didn't really believe that cables can make difference. Now I believe in that but it is not related to cost. It seems to be related to structure and material of cable.

In addition, I changed the capacitor of the tweeter from 4.7 to 3.3 microF. so I have pushed the high pass point further up. i am bit confused about wht is the point because I am not sure what is the nominal impedance of my tweeters. either i have changed to from 4khz to 6kz (if it is 8 ohms) or 8Khz to above 10kHz if it is 4 ohms. I am yet to note any big difference. What is different is that I was using 2 unipolar caps connected to each other to make them bipolar. Now I have single bipolar capacitor. i don't know how Keltron is as a brand.

 

[Hari Iyer]

In further progress with my experiments,

1 solid core cooper wire is as good as 2 put together. I tried something further. I vaguely remember that a fellow HFVian had tried biwiring (adding cat5 cable to regular wire). i am unable to find the thread but I remembered that he found good improvement. So I tried same thing. It really works.So each terminal has a solid core copper wire (earthing) and a cat5 cable. This was another A/B comparison with one channel having only solid copper cable and the other having combination. When I connected similar cable combination to other speaker, the difference vanished.The difference was again better highs and lows with same for vocals.

So, in past I didn't really believe that cables can make difference. Now I believe in that but it is not related to cost. It seems to be related to structure and material of cable.

In addition, I changed the capacitor of the tweeter from 4.7 to 3.3 microF. so I have pushed the high pass point further up. i am bit confused about wht is the point because I am not sure what is the nominal impedance of my tweeters. either i have changed to from 4khz to 6kz (if it is 8 ohms) or 8Khz to above 10kHz if it is 4 ohms. I am yet to note any big difference. What is different is that I was using 2 unipolar caps connected to each other to make them bipolar. Now I have single bipolar capacitor. i don't know how Keltron is as a brand.

If you push the cross-over point too high the cone break-up and resonance effects could be an issue. Check up if you have done enough compensation in your cross-over to handle these issues. Ideally if you are planning to cross over 10KHz, then a super tweeter would serve better purpose than a regular tweeter. A normal tweeter if crossed at 10KHz will be very bright.

 

[jaudere]

Thanks Hari for suggestion. I am using Piezo tweeter. The capacitor is the crossover . I ,mean I am using 1order high pass filter and full ranger gets full signal. Could you please explain cone break up and resonance issue? And what is the difference between regular tweeter and a supertweeter? 10khz was in my mind because the frequency response of Full ranger was good till 10khz. In addition, since it is a first order high pass filter, it will still play few frequencies below 10khz and I expected adequate overlap. To my ears, it sounds quite good.

 

[keith_correa]

If you are inclined to - maybe you can try this in lieu of your existing capacitor

 

[keith_correa]

...1 solid core cooper wire is as good as 2 put together. I tried something further. I vaguely remember that a fellow HFVian had tried biwiring (adding cat5 cable to regular wire). i am unable to find the thread but I remembered that he found good improvement. So I tried same thing. It really works.So each terminal has a solid core copper wire (earthing) and a cat5 cable. This was another A/B comparison with one channel having only solid copper cable and the other having combination. When I connected similar cable combination to other speaker, the difference vanished.The difference was again better highs and lows with same for vocals.

So, in past I didn't really believe that cables can make difference. Now I believe in that but it is not related to cost. It seems to be related to structure and material of cable...

So if I understand you correctly, the combination is 4 twisted pairs + 1 single core per pole - correct?
Curious about 1 thing- what is the wire between your amp and speakers?

 

[jaudere]

Thanks Keith. Bit complicated for me. My reachin electronics DIY is limited. By the way I read that for good sound, the resistance of the cable has to be less than 5% of speaker impedance. Now supposing my speaker impedance is 6 ohm, and my cable length is 2 metre, any cable that has resistance less than 0.15 ohm/m should be good enough. I went through some tables. Going by those, If I use single strand of cat 5 cable, which is 24AWG, should be more than enough as the resistance for copper cable of 24 AWG is 0.0842ohm/metre. Am I correct or wrong? If correct, why should I try using so thick cables. Need to try single strand from amp to speaker. BTW, it was Koushik from forum who used Cat5 for internal wiring while modding his speakers.