Do upstream components enhance sq of streamers?

[Fiftyfifty]

Hi

Do dedicated network music servers, fmc converters, clocks, network switches and high end FOCs make a difference to the performance of an otherwise good streamer and DAC? Even with local music files?

In particular, I'm curious about the advantages of something like a Lumin L2 or a Melco as compared to a general purpose NAS like Synology.

Any personal experiences?

Responses will help me configure a decent solution.

Thanks

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Hi

Do dedicated network music servers, fmc converters, clocks, network switches and high end FOCs make a difference to the performance of an otherwise good streamer and DAC? Even with local music files?

In particular, I'm curious about the advantages of something like a Lumin L2 or a Melco as compared to a general purpose NAS like Synology.

Any personal experiences?

Responses will help me configure a decent solution.

Thanks

I have been researching the same for sometime now. And believe improving things upstream with FMC and network switches helps. Iam limited in space in my small room, so after some research have settled on an older Melco unit with built-in switch, and inbuilt linear power supply to act as an all-in-one switch cum music server. This runs minim server, so optimum as a dedicated music library ( or a glorified Nas ) to feed my local library to my Lumin streamer via ethernet. Iam also exploring adding FMC in the loop to reduce noise further. I should be back home by end of summer, so can then share my findings if this helps in anyway.

My belief stems from the fact that the addition of an ethernet filtering cable from Sotm showed how much noise was getting injected into the audio system through a simple network. So probably every bit helps here. Secondly, the idea that the less processes a processor does, the less noise it will generate has been advocated by Innous for sometime now. And they deliberately stick to low powered processors for the same reason. This is also one reason why I've kept storage / server separate from the streamer, though there are very well performing all-in-one digital servers streamers from Auralic and Aurender. Just that this is the road Ive chosen to go down, and no absolute rights or wrongs here I guess.

 

[Analogous]

Hi,
I have been travelling down this road too. After researching and ruminating for several months I got a Aurender x100L to replace the Bluesound Node2i and could not believe the difference. Not sure of the tech differences between these but it was an immediate upgrade in the sound, clarity, separation, depth of the sound stage images. I have only been streaming. Yet to try the inbuilt stored music playback SQ
The DAC, amp remain the same

 

[Fiftyfifty]

I have been researching the same for sometime now. And believe improving things upstream with FMC and network switches helps. Iam limited in space in my small room, so after some research have settled on an older Melco unit with built-in switch, and inbuilt linear power supply to act as an all-in-one switch cum music server. This runs minim server, so optimum as a dedicated music library ( or a glorified Nas ) to feed my local library to my Lumin streamer via ethernet. Iam also exploring adding FMC in the loop to reduce noise further. I should be back home by end of summer, so can then share my findings if this helps in anyway.

My belief stems from the fact that the addition of an ethernet filtering cable from Sotm showed how much noise was getting injected into the audio system through a simple network. So probably every bit helps here. Secondly, the idea that the less processes a processor does, the less noise it will generate has been advocated by Innous for sometime now. And they deliberately stick to low powered processors for the same reason. This is also one reason why I've kept storage / server separate from the streamer, though there are very well performing all-in-one digital servers streamers from Auralic and Aurender. Just that this is the road Ive chosen to go down, and no absolute rights or wrongs here I guess.

Thanks!
Didn't know Melco had a switch cum server solution. Which model is that? I was tending towards the Lumin L2 +U2 configuration.
And look forward to your impressions post summer.
Cheers!

 

[muralimmreddy]

I shared my experience on L2 in here https://www.hifivision.com/threads/lumin-thread.93807/post-1058327

Have not used its sfp port or as a musical server, but in which ever chain l2 i tried it made a difference.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Thanks!
Didn't know Melco had a switch cum server solution. Which model is that? I was tending towards the Lumin L2 +U2 configuration.
And look forward to your impressions post summer.
Cheers!

I got an all in one, Melco N1ZH EX, which is a server cum switch. It has an optimized Usb out to act as a streamer or roon end point too. Though I mainly bought it for use as a server.



But if one wants expandability, then the Lumin L2 is definitely a better option, as it has more in and out ethernet ports, including fiber. And if you are planning on adding a Lumin U2, then the L2 is a natural partner, as you can connect them both directly via fiber, which has very big advantages. So in your good selves use case a L2 will be much better than the Melco option.

In my case, my streamer is a Lumin U1X, which doesnt have a fiber optic Lan port, so the L2 is of limited benefit to me, and anyways I will need a switch with both fiber as well as copper ethernet ports, hence I went with the Melco only as a storage option cum starter switch for now, and will be adding a Melco S100/2 switch and FMC convertors from my router to this switch.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

So my final configuration will be -- Wireless router >> FMC >> Fiber cable >> Melco or Sotm switch >> copper Lan cable >> Melco N1ZH >> Lumin

 

[Fiftyfifty]

@Yelamanchili manohar These servers like the Lumin L2 can also be used as a NAS to store data, photos, videos etc. for access by devices connected to the network?

 

[bornfi]

Hi

Do dedicated network music servers, fmc converters, clocks, network switches and high end FOCs make a difference to the performance of an otherwise good streamer and DAC? Even with local music files?

In particular, I'm curious about the advantages of something like a Lumin L2 or a Melco as compared to a general purpose NAS like Synology.

Any personal experiences?

Responses will help me configure a decent solution.

Thanks

For me, yes, it has been a very harsh reality that USB reclocker and network switch that I have from Innuos, no matter how high-end your streamer or DAC is, they do enhance* the performance. Why harsh, because these supporting items cost way more than my DAC.

Enhance may not be the right word but with the help of these reclocking equipments, one realizes the full potential of one's DAC/streamer.

 

[bornfi]

I also wanted to add that is very relevant to your question is that for any new item that I add to my chain, I ensure that they aren't powered with SMPSs and if I have to have that item in the chain, I replace the SMPS with nice LPS.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

@Yelamanchili manohar These servers like the Lumin L2 can also be used as a NAS to store data, photos, videos etc. for access by devices connected to the network?

Yes sir, they can be used as Nas once we add SSD to the Lumin L2. But I'd rather not. For storing photos or movies on the network, it is much cheaper to get a WDmycloud 4 TB drive, and just plug it into the wireless router. The Lumin L2 is designed ground up to work as an optimized audio grade network drive, and costs accordingly. The audio gods will get very upset if you load photos into the Lumin L2, not to mention, their CEO in Hongkong will faint if he hears of it

 

[Analogous]

Then there is this:

Gramophone Dreams #84: dCS Lina D/A processor and Lina Master Clock

I was at least 40' away when I spied my first dCS Lina stack at CanJam. It was black, sitting conspicuously on a table emitting a strong Space Odyssey Monolith vibe. I can't remember which headphones I used, but I do remember how good it felt to face the stack and experience its startling...

www.stereophile.com

Never heard them, but want to

 

[Fiftyfifty]

Yes sir, they can be used as Nas once we add SSD to the Lumin L2. But I'd rather not. For storing photos or movies on the network, it is much cheaper to get a WDmycloud 4 TB drive, and just plug it into the wireless router. The Lumin L2 is designed ground up to work as an optimized audio grade network drive, and costs accordingly. The audio gods will get very upset if you load photos into the Lumin L2, not to mention, their CEO in Hongkong will faint if he hears of it

In the past, you've expressed concern about the SMPS on the L2. Any fresh insights on this?

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

In the past, you've expressed concern about the SMPS on the L2. Any fresh insights on this?

No...sadly nothing more to add. But I think I can understand why Lumin went with a SMPS :

1. First Iam sure Lumin designed an extremely quiet SMPS to achieve their target performance, when tested against the competition. So cant fault it from a performance point of view.
2. Their optimized LPSU for the X1 and U1 models alone costs USD 2,500/-. So adding something like that to the L2 would have priced it out of the competition. For example, the Melco S100/2 costs USD 2,200, but the S10, which some say, is the S100/2 with a optimized LPSU costs USD 5,000. So that will make it prohibitively expensive for all but the very deep pocketed hobbyists.
3. Melco had to launch the S10 at USD 5,000 because they need their model to be an universal fit. Where as Lumin is targeting existing X1, U2 and P1 customers who already have a fiber optic Lan port on their devices. Which when connected to the L2 over fiber, will anyway achieve galvanic isolation, so noise if any from the in built SMPS will anyways not be reaching this way.
4. Iam sure all future Lumin model launches will come with Fiber optic inputs by default. So the L2 will be a perfect fit for all of the them. And the additional costs of a LPSU will anyway be wasted.

So someone with a X1, U2, P1 or any streamer for that matter with a Fiber input will benefit most from the L2.

Where as in my case, since I dont have fiber input, my curiosity about the noise if any from the L2 is warranted, as I will be connecting over copper ethernet. So the Melco with a LPSU seemed a better fit for me. Though I still think the Lumin L2 will perform better.

But I had other reasons to go with the Melco, like the inbuilt Songkong music indexing software. Choice of Minim and Twonky server. Automated back up of my library to an external drive. Plus if the need arises tomorrow, I can also use it as a Roon end point. And it also acts as a complete server cum streamer over USB for a 2nd system if required. ( Above is a video showing its playback via USB as a streamer ). So from a functionality and flexibility point of view the Melco fit the bill better for me. And since I was going to buy and curate a local library of my favorite tracks, backup was important for me, which the Lumin does not provide. If the L2 could be enabled to use two 4TB drives, with my music on one, and the 2nd 4TB drive acting as an auto backup, then the Lumin might have looked more appealing to me.

 

[Fiftyfifty]

No...sadly nothing more to add. But I think I can understand why Lumin went with a SMPS :

1. First Iam sure Lumin designed an extremely quiet SMPS to achieve their target performance, when tested against the competition. So cant fault it from a performance point of view.
2. Their optimized LPSU for the X1 and U1 models alone costs USD 2,500/-. So adding something like that to the L2 would have priced it out of the competition. For example, the Melco S100/2 costs USD 2,200, but the S10, which some say, is the S100/2 with a optimized LPSU costs USD 5,000. So that will make it prohibitively expensive for all but the very deep pocketed hobbyists.
3. Melco had to launch the S10 at USD 5,000 because they need their model to be an universal fit. Where as Lumin is targeting existing X1, U2 and P1 customers who already have a fiber optic Lan port on their devices. Which when connected to the L2 over fiber, will anyway achieve galvanic isolation, so noise if any from the in built SMPS will anyways not be reaching this way.
4. Iam sure all future Lumin model launches will come with Fiber optic inputs by default. So the L2 will be a perfect fit for all of the them. And the additional costs of a LPSU will anyway be wasted.

So someone with a X1, U2, P1 or any streamer for that matter with a Fiber input will benefit most from the L2.

Where as in my case, since I dont have fiber input, my curiosity about the noise if any from the L2 is warranted, as I will be connecting over copper ethernet. So the Melco with a LPSU seemed a better fit for me. Though I still think the Lumin L2 will perform better.

But I had other reasons to go with the Melco, like the inbuilt Songkong music indexing software. Choice of Minim and Twonky server. Automated back up of my library to an external drive. Plus if the need arises tomorrow, I can also use it as a Roon end point. And it also acts as a complete server cum streamer over USB for a 2nd system if required. ( Above is a video showing its playback via USB as a streamer ). So from a functionality and flexibility point of view the Melco fit the bill better for me. And since I was going to buy and curate a local library of my favorite tracks, backup was important for me, which the Lumin does not provide. If the L2 could be enabled to use two 4TB drives, with my music on one, and the 2nd 4TB drive acting as an auto backup, then the Lumin might have looked more appealing to me.

Your understanding of the features is truly remarkable. Thanks for taking the time to explain the rationale here

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Your understanding of the features is truly remarkable. Thanks for taking the time to explain the rationale here

Haha..thanks for your kind words and you are most welcome