Do you still need a sound card when you have a USB DAC?

Santy

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I was just wondering how they will fare when an external DAC (which accepts SPDIF and USB input) is connected.

1. USB output
2. SPDIF output (from mobo )
3. SPDIF output (from PCIE sound card)

Any one has experienced a difference. If yes, what exactly causes the improvement? Does the sound card help in reducing jitter, more so in case of expensive sound cards?
 
I use the digital coaxial output (SPDIF) from a Xonar STX to feed a Rega DAC. The Rega DAC does have a USB input. To my ears the digital coaxial (SPDIF) input of the DAC sounds better than the USB input. I had the same experience with the Beresford Caiman that I used to use before I used the Rega DAC.

I will not be comment on why the digital coaxial input sounds better. It just does, to my ears.

It should be noted that the Rega DAC does not have async USB input. But Rega claims to be using some tech that makes the final output as good. I haven't much bothered to check up on what that is, as it is not quite relevant to my usage pattern.

As to an SPDIF output from a sound card vs. an SPDIF output from the motherboard, I have not tried this myself: I have not even loaded the onboard sound drivers of my motherboard. But I would think that the sound card would have a far superior clock.
 
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As to an SPDIF output from a sound card vs. an SPDIF output from the motherboard, I have not tried this myself: I have not even loaded the onboard sound drivers of my motherboard. But I would think that the sound card would have a far superior clock.

I fully agree that sound cards will have a better clock and that is one of the reasons why its DAC performs better than onboard chipset.

But my question is, whether the clock in the sound card is used when you are using an external DAC? If outboard DACs use their own inbuilt clock then how does it matter to have a sound card in the chain when neither its DAC nor its clock is used.
 
I have the below configs..

(1) Esi Juli@ Coax => Musical Fidelity M1 DAC
(2) Musical Fidelity M1 DAC via USB
(3) Esi Juli@ Optical => Musical Fidelity M1 DAC

(1) Fuller sound with better body. Mellow.
(2) Wee bit leaner sound than (1) but hi end transitents are better
(3) Bassy with a little restricted sound stage.

I like it,

(1) > (2) >> (3).
 
I have the below configs..

(1) Esi Juli@ Coax => Musical Fidelity M1 DAC
(2) Musical Fidelity M1 DAC via USB
(3) Esi Juli@ Optical => Musical Fidelity M1 DAC

(1) Fuller sound with better body. Mellow.
(2) Wee bit leaner sound than (1) but hi end transitents are better
(3) Bassy with a little restricted sound stage.

I like it,

(1) > (2) >> (3).

Thanks Blasto for the feedback.

Well, I am not exactly looking at spdif vs usb, rather trying to understand more about the role Juli has to play in the chain (1) or (2) when MF DAC is used. Infact, I think I should remove #1 from my original post since sound card has no role to play in it.

Sent from my GT-I9001 using Tapatalk 2
 
Thanks Blasto for the feedback.

Well, I am not exactly looking at spdif vs usb, rather trying to understand more about the role Juli has to play in the chain (1) or (2) when MF DAC is used. Infact, I think I should remove #1 from my original post since sound card has no role to play in it.

Sent from my GT-I9001 using Tapatalk 2

I would say only minor or "won't miss' kind of improvement. I would not be able to identify them apart most times.

(3) I can easily identify since it is not to my liking.

Also, Coaxial cables made some degree of difference in my setup.
No differences between USB cables till now. :cool:
 
If you are completely focused on rooting EMI noise from the Computer, then a digital out from the sound card into a DAC and from then on to the output chain is recommended. Particularly so for a laptop.
 
Many says that spdf out/in is better than USB.I tried your DAC in both ways & I can say SPDF(xonar) had better soundstage.
 
If the usb dac is very well implemented for usb audio (very few usb dacs actualy are), sound cards are not in the equation at all. And sound quality will be great.

Spdif from computers are a different ball game altogether. High quality sound cards along custom made PCs for audio is a necessity. There are studios which run such rigs along with master clocks etc to great effect. But then again such an endeavor is specialized while the first one isnt.
 
It's easy to say that data is data and the ones and zeros are all the same --- but this completely overlooks the A in DAC. Every DAC, sound card, or sound interface (assuming analogue output) has analogue circuitry.

Added to which, even the digital side, and especially USB, is not implemented equally. S/PDIFF and USB carry the same digital data, don't they? So why does one sound different to other on the same DAC? This is not one of those "audiophile" controversial things, but widely reported as being the case. There are technology differences; there are implementation differences. There are even high-end proprietary USB implementations, like RME. Which pisses me off, because even I saved up enough to buy it, I would not get the benefit in Linux --- but that is another story.

In a decade of PC audio, I have never used a USB interface/DAC. This is partly because, in the early days, USB1.0 was not really good for sound (and some of that reputation has stained USB2.0). Very likely that I will be trying it in the next year or two.

If a person wants to only play (not record) music, exclusively from PC(s) then a USB DAC must be the way to go for economy and simplicity. If the S/PDIFF implementation of a particular box is so much better than USB that it is worth buying a converter, then isn't it the wrong box to buy for the purpose?

Always possible: take analogue-out from a PC sound card. ESI Julai@ or better will surprise you, as my RME card surprised me years ago. Do bear in mind that the designers of decent sound cards have thought about internal box electrical noise --- and having a well-made PSU probably helps too. There are also sound "cards" (simpler to call them "interfaces") which do the business externally (mine does) from dedicated PCI card or with Firewire.

There is a bigger range of PC audio possibilities. One huge advantage to that USB DAC, though, is being able to plug it into any PC/Laptop ...anywhere.
 
I really did not want to discuss about USB vs SPDIF :eek: . I wish to experiment with SPDIF like many of you did but I wish to understand if Sound card is necessary. IOW, whether a sound card plays a significant role when its SPDIF is used with external DAC?

Blasto and Spiro both found marginal improvement when SPDIF of their sound card is used, but that is with reference to the USB audio streaming I guess.

I have a 2 pin SPDIF header on my mobo, which can be connected to adapter like the one shown below or I can make one Coax connector myself. Whether it would be inferior to the SPDIF output of a PCI sound card is my query.

$T2eC16Z,!y0E9s2S8iuKBQUc)!mZ+!~~60_35.JPG
 
Let me add another post in a different way.

Has anyone got

A PC with mobo like the one shown here (with SPDIF)
and
A sound card
and
An external DAC :D

5.jpg
 
Let me add another post in a different way.

Has anyone got

A PC with mobo like the one shown here (with SPDIF)
and
A sound card
and
An external DAC :D

5.jpg

I have and tried the digital outs directly from mobo.. Does not even compare to other things we are discussing..

Don't ask me why! I don't know..
 
And before you ask,

1) Optical out of mobo to DAC is junk.
2) I have connected the HDMI out digital audio to the TV and optical out of TV to the DAC and tried out that also - as much junk as (1)
3) My mobo has no coaxial out.
 
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I have a 2 pin SPDIF header on my mobo, which can be connected to adapter like the one shown below...
It would be an interesting experiment to start there. Next time I find myself rooting around in the spares shops of Sim Lim Square (maybe sometime this year) I intend to buy such a bracket. Probably, I'll be buying a DAC with S/PDIFF input as well, because I don't have one as yet. Anyway, the bracket will not cost much and will be there for future experiment. Pity I don't still use minidisc! but my current interface has S/PDIFF, so it is ready, when the time comes, to stand up against the motherboard output!

However, I don't doubt what BLASTO and others say. Whether or not there should be a difference, it seems there is.

In my early days of analogue-out PC audio, I went from mother-board-built-in to wow in about three steps. Each one added a digit before the decimal point in cost. Each one, especially the last step was considerably different in sound. It was an interesting journey, although some cash got wasted along the way. I'm not sure that digital gives quite the same difference for each step, but those who have made similar journeys in digital can comment on that.
 
Quite surprised to read that so many found the sound through spidif even acceptable,let alone superior to USB.it is now generally accepted that a spidif out has an enormous amount of jitter and a well implemented asynchronous (not adaptive) USB DAC takes care of the clocking problems causing jitter and thus sounds vastly superior.This has been my experience and I would never consider using a spidif out on my system.
 
And before you ask,

1) Optical out of mobo to DAC is junk.
2) I have connected the HDMI out digital audio to the TV and optical out of TV to the DAC and tried out that also - as much junk as (1)
3) My mobo has no coaxial out.

I have the extender (as the pic) from the mobo for coax and its inferior to juli coax when connected to same external DAC.
 
Santy,you can certainly try yourself & compare USB to that of MB spdf out sound Q.Lets have your opinion too.
 
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