Drivers That Speak

[viren bakhshi]

These past two nights I have been listening to speakers that have been transformed. The cabinets are the same - the Lyrita big horns - but with different drivers. You know, new old stock (NOS) stuff, stuff that has been by-and-large forgotten by the majors. Large 15" woofers, JBL D-130, and 1" compression drivers, Altec 807. One prominent feature they have in common - all have Alnico magnets.

This is the first I have heard an all Alnico speaker system. And, what a joy it is to hear music through it! Music that is rich in texture, in timbre, in nuance, in tone - that brings instruments to life. And the human voice, with all its inflections and intonations, is reproduced in full glory. There is a richness to music that is reflective of live music, with all its emotions, drawing you in.

I was a sceptic at first. The effort to revive old drivers - the JBL's had to be reconed, the Altec's needed new diaphragms - seemed quite a bit to undertake. The encouragement came from good friend Rajiv. With the drivers renovated as close to original as possible, and installed, all doubts faded away rapidly. You may read all the reviews you want, but there is no substitute to hearing things for yourself. These Alnico drivers have greatly increased my enjoyment of music at home - the best I have heard so far.

Here's the irony of it. These designs hark back to the grand old days of Altec Lansing, during the 1940s and 50s. You can have all the current carbon-fibre, kevlar, ceramic, or beryllium coned speaker drivers; but these simple paper coned and aluminium diaphragm drivers, with superb motor systems, reproduce music far better. That's what is important - the enjoyment of music at home. More music, more beauty.

Viren

 

[arj]

Here's the irony of it. These designs hark back to the grand old days of Altec Lansing, during the 1940s and 50s. You can have all the current carbon-fibre, kevlar, ceramic, or beryllium coned speaker drivers; but these simple paper coned and aluminium diaphragm drivers, with superb motor systems, reproduce music far better. That's what is important - the enjoyment of music at home. More music, more beauty.

Viren

Interesting observation Virenji

i had done some reading around Ferrite Vs Alnico while deciding on my speaker. lots of debates regarding the Tube vs SS, digital vs analogue etc etc debate. But again there are reports in Audio Asylum that ferrites are equally good or sometimes better.
an interesting read here

The general feeling is that music oriented view on research used to happen in the Golden days of design and these days, while research may be more, it is all in bits and pieces where the overall picture of music is not seen. Hence while technically we have great products which measure great..the good sound used to come in the past.

The whole 'Alnico mojo' is about smooth compression at high average levels, such as what you would have running the amp flat out. AlNiCo (Aluminum-Nickel-Cobalt) is an alloy magnet and all alloy magnets are easier to demagnetize than comparable Ceramic (Strontium Ferrite) magnets. What this means is that as the voice coil starts moving in response to the input signal, it generates a magnetic field of its own that tries to demagnetize the magnet. As its effect lowers the available magnetic field of the AlNiCo magnet, the speaker becomes less efficient, the voice coil moves less, etc. The physics of it is that the small magnets near the surface of the magnet poles (called 'domains') begin to change state, or flip directions. The result is smooth compression, the same kind of operating curve compression that occurs in a tube amplifier. The ceramic magnet, on the other hand, doesn't compress or demagnetize as easily, so the voice coil moves to its mechanical limit and won't go any farther. This is why some players say ceramics sound a little edgy at high average levels as opposed to AlNiCo. However, by properly designing the entire magnetic circuit, ceramics can be made to behave quite well for desireable guitar amp tone and dynamics. You might compare the two magnetic circuits to solid state amps versus tube amps, where the solid state amp gives it all its got then clips hard, while a tube amp compresses nice and smooth. The extension of this idea, then, is that with the AlNiCo, like the tube amp, you can seem to have a louder average volume since it gets compressed smoothly. By the way, the compressing or demagnetization that occurs with the AlNiCo is not permanent. It springs right back to its design operating point

 

[viren bakhshi]

Hi Arj,

I don't buy that "smooth compression" reasoning. The audio signal does not generate the level of magnetic energy to demagnetize the driver magnet. Anyway, to me, the Alnico speakers sound more dynamic and vivid, just the opposite of what any compression would do.

Here's another view on Alnico drivers, from a person I respect a lot:

Lynn Olson : To my ear, field-coils, Alnico, and neodymium magnets are all noticeably better than ceramic magnets - for lack of a better word, they have a "fresher", more vivid, more colorful sound. The field coils sound a bit quieter, more understated, while the Alnicos have a more vivid, more colorful sound. Neo sounds partway to the duller sound of ceramic, while having a fair amount of Alnico's vividness. Some say neo can sound "brash" on some program material, but a lot depends on details of gap saturation and magnetic path design.

This is a purely subjective assessment on my part, and not shared by other loudspeaker designers. Many designers - who I respect as good engineers who know their stuff - are convinced there is no audible difference between magnet materials at all, but then they listen to Class AB transistor amplifiers - we live in different subjective worlds. I find the sound of nearly all Class AB transistor amplifiers to be dull and flat, with much less resolution, tonal color, and spatial dimensionality than vacuum-tube amplifiers, particularly zero-feedback all-triode amplifiers.

I am hearing the additional resolution, the tone colour, in my system, which is very familiar to me. It is real.

Regards,
Viren

Ah, what happened to your trip to this part of the country?

 

[nandac]

alnico vs ferrite

seems that this is already an old debate amongst audiophiles regarding magnets used in speakers.

is one better than the other in terms of sonics?

there is a view that alnicos are 'better' for tube amps.

so what is the views/experience on this by the forum members here.

appreciate the feedback.

 

[asliarun]

Re: alnico vs ferrite

I can only tell this much. I once bought a pair of fostex fx120 drivers that I later sold off. I was really frustrated that I could get less than halfprice even though the drivers were still in their original packing.

The interesting thing was that the buyers told me they would have paid close to the purchase price if I was selling the alnico model instead - the f120A. Not sure if that is a statement of the superiority of this specific driver model or of alnico based drivers in general.

In my specific example, the alnico model is twice the weight and twice the price. But they have fairly similar technical specs and similar construction quality. Still the alnico model holds its value a lot more. And I would imagine that whoever is buying these kind of niche drivers know what they are buying.

 

[viren bakhshi]

Re: alnico vs ferrite

Just look up : http://www.hifivision.com/speakers/46307-drivers-speak.html

Viren

 

[captrajesh]

Just saw this interesting thread. Surprised that there is no participation from knowledgeable senior members of the forum. Hope to get this thread revived.

 

[sunder]

These past two nights I have been listening to speakers that have been transformed. The cabinets are the same - the Lyrita big horns - but with different drivers. You know, new old stock (NOS) stuff, stuff that has been by-and-large forgotten by the majors. Large 15" woofers, JBL D-130, and 1" compression drivers, Altec 807. One prominent feature they have in common - all have Alnico magnets.

This is the first I have heard an all Alnico speaker system. And, what a joy it is to hear music through it! Music that is rich in texture, in timbre, in nuance, in tone - that brings instruments to life. And the human voice, with all its inflections and intonations, is reproduced in full glory. There is a richness to music that is reflective of live music, with all its emotions, drawing you in.

I was a sceptic at first. The effort to revive old drivers - the JBL's had to be reconed, the Altec's needed new diaphragms - seemed quite a bit to undertake. The encouragement came from good friend Rajiv. With the drivers renovated as close to original as possible, and installed, all doubts faded away rapidly. You may read all the reviews you want, but there is no substitute to hearing things for yourself. These Alnico drivers have greatly increased my enjoyment of music at home - the best I have heard so far.

Here's the irony of it. These designs hark back to the grand old days of Altec Lansing, during the 1940s and 50s. You can have all the current carbon-fibre, kevlar, ceramic, or beryllium coned speaker drivers; but these simple paper coned and aluminium diaphragm drivers, with superb motor systems, reproduce music far better. That's what is important - the enjoyment of music at home. More music, more beauty.

Viren

Virenji, when you admired the thing other than your's own product, as you had been immersed by the luxurious sound of that and you have ecstatically reported the thing on this forum with complete frankness. This kind of thing is very scarce nowadays! I am also searching for a pair of Alnico drivers. Thank you.
Best Regards,
sunder.

 

[rohitmusic]

Virenji, when you admired the thing other than your's own product, as you had been immersed by the luxurious sound of that and you have ecstatically reported the thing on this forum with complete frankness. This kind of thing is very scarce nowadays! I am also searching for a pair of Alnico drivers. Thank you.
Best Regards,
sunder.

Going OT for a much needed thanks! (Something that we often forget in a busy world!)

Typical of Virenji! A true gentleman and music passionate. Someone who values pure music above everything.
When I was starting into the hobby I had the pleasure to call up Virenji on couple of occasions and have a chat with him (Virenji may not recall but it was special for me so I do )

I was bit intimidated before calling due to obvious reasons. Very quickly I was at ease talking with Virenji due to his easily approachable, frank and open nature. It was like being guided by a mentor (what I consider him..) never being biased towards his own creations (beautiful ones). It was a very harmonious and pleasant interaction something that I distinctly remember to day..

It is like sharing the passion and joy of music in an unconditional and open manner in the true spirit of music and art.

(Sorry Virenji if this embarasses or makes you blush a bit but I am sure you are used to compliments like these given your kind nature )

Respect and regards!

 

[shafic]

Re: alnico vs ferrite

There is some MAGIC in Alnico drivers. With tube amplifier ( particularly S.E.T or 300 B ) they will show some magic to you. So they are called 'tubey tone'. I have many, but desperately waiting for my gold, TANNOY GOLD!!.

 

[reubensm]

Re: alnico vs ferrite

There is some MAGIC in Alnico drivers. With tube amplifier ( particularly S.E.T or 300 B ) they will show some magic to you. So they are called 'tubey tone'. I have many, but desperately waiting for my gold, TANNOY GOLD!!.

are you referring to Tannoy Monitor Gold 15 inch Dual Concentric Speakers?

 

[shafic]

Re: alnico vs ferrite

are you referring to Tannoy Monitor Gold 15 inch Dual Concentric Speakers?

yes the same,sir.