Fibre and optical networking help for a complete computer noob

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Hi all ..

Iam really dumb at computers and dumber at networking. Iam considering dipping my toes into the world of streaming and computer audio. And I will be setting up a new network in my audio room from scratch.

I will be using a power line adapter at the wall socket, and plan on drawing a ethernet cable from there to my router. So will need your valuable advise on my below queries.


1. Is optical and fibre networking one and the same.
2. Are there any routers with fiber or optical ports.
3. I will only be connecting a NAS ( WD my cloud), and two streamers to the router. Can the router manage this, or will I also need a network switch.
4. If the router does have optical or fiber ports, are there readily available fiber or optical cables to connect the same. Or will I need any additional adaptors.

Any suggestions on routers, fiber cables or adapters will be very welcome. Thanks

 

[argho]

Manohar,

I would suggest that you try to draw an ethernet cable from your main router to your music room. Get an electrician to see if he can do concealed cabling.

Optical and Fibre are the same. Optical signals are transmitted via fibre.

As per my limited knowledge, fibre/optical is used only by telecom companies (they have to move terabytes of data).

Within home, Ethernet is sufficient. Gigabit ethernet home routers and cabling is affordable and easily available.

Most routers have 4 ports, so can easily connect a NAS + 2 streamers. No need for a switch.

The router in your music room has to be setup as a WAP (Wired Access Point) - ie a slave.

I reccomend Asus routers. Very easy to configure as a WAP, and very reliable.

Msg me if you have any more queries.

Re : my first point. Suggest avoid powerline adapters.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Re : my first point. Suggest avoid powerline adapters.

Thanks @argho

Unfortunately I have concrete cast walls and it is very difficult to drill through atleast 6 inches of it. The additional risk is possible damage to wiring running inside the walls. So direct ethernet wire is a risk I would like to avoid.

Owing to the possible noise injected by the power lines, I was considering fiber ethernet as I've read that it provides electrical isolation from the upstream noise. Iam still undecided on the streamer. But I think in a few years, ethernet galvanic isolation will become the norm for all related audio equipment.

So I was thinking that if I get a router with SFP ports. How do I use them actually. Do I go directly with fibre cables or do I need some ethernet to fibre convertors etc..

 

[rikhav]

I am not sure about routers but you surely get routers with 3 or 4 or 2 fibre ports and rest are ethernet ports

 

[drkrack]

Hi all ..

Iam really dumb at computers and dumber at networking. Iam considering dipping my toes into the world of streaming and computer audio. And I will be setting up a new network in my audio room from scratch.

I will be using a power line adapter at the wall socket, and plan on drawing a ethernet cable from there to my router. So will need your valuable advise on my below queries.


1. Is optical and fibre networking one and the same.
2. Are there any routers with fiber or optical ports.
3. I will only be connecting a NAS ( WD my cloud), and two streamers to the router. Can the router manage this, or will I also need a network switch.
4. If the router does have optical or fiber ports, are there readily available fiber or optical cables to connect the same. Or will I need any additional adaptors.

Any suggestions on routers, fiber cables or adapters will be very welcome. Thanks

As per my understanding,
to get the best advantages of the optical Etherenet cabling ; You need the main Router to have a SFP out (or use adapter), this should be connected via optical cable to The desktop switch at the HT area, the desktop switch should essentially have a SFP input and output ports. The SFP From switch is connected to the SFP port on the Streamer via Optical Etherenet cable.
SFP port on the Streamer is quintessential to get the maximum advantage of optical Etherenet cabling. ( Something like XLR connections in analog chain, the whole chain needs to be balanced to get the real advantage).


Many Cisco and TPLINK Routers and Switches available in India have SFP ports so that should not be an issue , getting optical cables is bit tough especially short length ones ; but can be imported.
Streamer with SFP Ports are scarce and expensive about 2.5L AFAIK.
@bornfi made a detailed thread few months ago, after he found good SQ improvement with optical network cabling , and should be able to guide us.

 

[reignofchaos]

If wired is not possible, use wireless. Powerline networking is not worth it and is a complete hogwash that is best avoided.

The speeds you get will be worse than wifi anyways so it is absolutely not worth it.

However do consider wired ethernet - any electrician who knows his stuff will be able to pull ethernet through your existing conduits.

 

[sydney]

I use optical connections for audio steamer ... using microtik routers and sfp modules with optical cable from RS components. Then the final ethernet connection to the streamer is made using a phasure ethernet cable

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

As per my understanding,
to get the best advantages of the optical Etherenet cabling ; You need the main Router to have a SFP out (or use adapter), this should be connected via optical cable to The desktop switch at the HT area, the desktop switch should essentially have a SFP input and output ports. The SFP From switch is connected to the SFP port on the Streamer via Optical Etherenet cable.
SFP port on the Streamer is quintessential to get the maximum advantage of optical Etherenet cabling. ( Something like XLR connections in analog chain, the whole chain needs to be balanced to get the real advantage).


Many Cisco and TPLINK Routers and Switches available in India have SFP ports so that should not be an issue , getting optical cables is bit tough especially short length ones ; but can be imported.
Streamer with SFP Ports are scarce and expensive about 2.5L AFAIK.
@bornfi made a detailed thread few months ago, after he found good SQ improvement with optical network cabling , and should be able to guide us.

Thanks for the advice karthik ..

That looks like a lot of networking components with sfp ports daisey chained to filter out the noise. So will be quiet a few boxes with associated linear power supplies to power them too. Unless I could achieve isolation with one router or max one additional component. Then I think I will let it pass, and just get used to the noise. Ignorance is bliss as they say

 

[sydney]

try https://avstore.in/products/sotm-dcbl-cat7

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

If wired is not possible, use wireless. Powerline networking is not worth it and is a complete hogwash that is best avoided.

The speeds you get will be worse than wifi anyways so it is absolutely not worth it.

However do consider wired ethernet - any electrician who knows his stuff will be able to pull ethernet through your existing conduits.

Thanks ...

Yeah some kind of mesh or something might be just about doable. But the issue is that I will have to change my living room router also to a more powerful one then.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

I use optical connections for audio steamer ... using microtik routers and sfp modules with optical cable from RS components. Then the final ethernet connection to the streamer is made using a phasure ethernet cable

Thanks a ton Sydney ..

Can you please elaborate a bit on how the entire chain is wired. Along with any convertor or additional power supplies to power them please.

And the final question is, did you find a noticeable improvement after adding all these. And do you feel the improvements warrant the benefits. Thanks again

 

[reignofchaos]

Thanks ...

Yeah some kind of mesh or something might be just about doable. But the issue is that I will have to change my living room router also to a more powerful one then.

If you are going the mesh way, look at Asus Zenwifi - its the best in the business.

 

[sydney]

ACT Internet >>Ethernet >> Netgear Orbi >> Ethernet >> Mikrotik << Fiber >> Mikrotik >>Phasure Ethernet cable >> Lindemann

No Linear power supplies involved. If I go for LPSU it would be from https://www.eahibrid.com/

1. Audible improvement by using Fiber network
2. Introducing the Phasure cable at the last mile bring about a big change, tried with SoTM LAN isolator also but I prefer the Phasure.

 

[superczar]

Hi all ..

Iam really dumb at computers and dumber at networking. Iam considering dipping my toes into the world of streaming and computer audio. And I will be setting up a new network in my audio room from scratch.

I will be using a power line adapter at the wall socket, and plan on drawing a ethernet cable from there to my router. So will need your valuable advise on my below queries.


1. Is optical and fibre networking one and the same.
2. Are there any routers with fiber or optical ports.
3. I will only be connecting a NAS ( WD my cloud), and two streamers to the router. Can the router manage this, or will I also need a network switch.
4. If the router does have optical or fiber ports, are there readily available fiber or optical cables to connect the same. Or will I need any additional adaptors.

Any suggestions on routers, fiber cables or adapters will be very welcome. Thanks

Don’t overthink this.

If you can’t pull CAT6 to your room, get any decent mesh router (and avoid powerline ) . Connect the primary to your ISP.
The secondary can go into your audio room.

Mesh routers (and satellites) will have anywhere between 1-4 LAN ethernet ports depending on your selected model.
If you end up choosing something which has just 1, add a switch to it (typically 1.5K -2K for a 8 port gigabit switch) for expansion

Asus, Orbi are all good choices. I have heard good things about TP Link Deco as well.
Some folks prefer SDN mesh setups like ubiquiti and omada .
I use the latter in a router+ 5 satellite config but thats required only when you are particular about high throughput everywhere so not needed in your case.

I am assuming your audio room is not too far away from your primary router location.
With this, you will have everything up & running in less than 15 minutes at minimal cost.

As for isolation, I am of the firm opinion that any half decent streamer will have adequate isolation between its network and audio stack.
In any event, your mesh satellite is isolated from the rest of the network (Not that it makes a difference but lets play along for the sake of a logical argument)
.
Any additional SQ improvements with fiber on LAN will be hokum/ placebo because keep in mind that the fiber won’t terminate directly into your streamer but via a electrically powered SFP converter .. so effectively thats the same as the mesh satellite

 

[bornfi]

Thanks for the advice karthik ..

That looks like a lot of networking components with sfp ports daisey chained to filter out the noise. So will be quiet a few boxes with associated linear power supplies to power them too. Unless I could achieve isolation with one router or max one additional component. Then I think I will let it pass, and just get used to the noise. Ignorance is bliss as they say

In that case, if you can manage with just one port, go for this - https://ediscreation.com/product/fiber-box/.
If not, get their Ethernet switch. This will keep it simple and one of the best solutions, SQ-wise, most probably.

 

[bornfi]

Any additional SQ improvements with fiber on LAN will be hokum/ placebo because keep in mind that the fiber won’t terminate directly into your streamer but via a electrically powered SFP converter .. so effectively thats the same as the mesh satellite

Highly encourage you to try one, you may become a follower too. But again, we all appreciate sound quality differently. I have met several folks who give far more weightage to convenience/simplicity than to quality and that is where gain becomes/appears or is perceived as a placebo. For me, after trying several such things and hearing the impacts, it is very clear that in order to make it sound simple, we all have been taught that digital is nothing but 0 or 1s but in reality, it is more than that that I am not qualified to comment on.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

In that case, if you can manage with just one port, go for this - https://ediscreation.com/product/fiber-box/.
If not, get their Ethernet switch. This will keep it simple and one of the best solutions, SQ-wise, most probably.

Thanks a ton bornfi ..
That is probably the simplest solution for me. As suggested by @superczar i will get a mesh of some sort. Then the ediscreation fiber box will be a simple solution. By the way I was drooling at ediscreation firebird lpsu a few days back. What a coincidence that you should recommend him today

 

[Subbu68]

As some have suggested i have had good sucess with mesh. Apartment setting, 1950sq.ft and all walls are concrete blocks. Luckily every room has been provided with ethernet port from a central distribution board at the living room / lobby. Tried earlier using 2 routers one in slave mode but devices were hoping between them. Main router weaker or nearly Nil in bedrooms and the slave fine in its room but little weak in the next.

Someone ordered a set of Google Wifi and left UAE without collecting and asked me to collect. He later told me to take it. Now 3 pucks, in a mesh one each in the hallway and 2 bedrooms. Primary puck connected to a Asus router at the entrance lobby, WiFi in Asus router switched off - just works as a switch to connect the NAS, Primary puck of Google Wifi and an additional LAN port in the bedroom. Each puck has two LAN ports to connect to PC or to mesh them. Anyways many a laptop has no LAN port these days so meshed them physically with the LAN ports.

Throughput is 250Mbps everywhere in the house, same as through the ethernet connection at the FO converter the ISP provided at the hallway.

It is the old model 1200ac, to my understanding as long as my connection speed is well below the rated speed of the router it's all good.

If Google fails one day, can still fall back on the Asus router.

 

[Kannan]

@Yelamanchili manohar Why not install a dedicated internet service for your audio room with a dedicated router.
All that will enter the room is a fibre optic cable.
If you believe in isolation it offers the best form of isolation.
If you use a phone or tablet to control your streamer and play music from Spotify etc., have one such device dedicated for that as well.