FM srijith visiting today - What's the fuss all about

Hari Iyer

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Yesterday night at 11:40PM (yes its not a typo) FM @srijith call me and wished to talk. We talked and he immediately went to the point where he has an Arylic Streamer with built-in DAC + preamplifier. He was not happy about how that sounds and as per him the output is very thin and he needs modification. One FM froim Bangalore (dont know name) had discussed with him and suggested to go for an R2R DAC to resolve this issue. Srijit had seen my adventures with a Passive DAC chip and was wondering if i can help.

He has an Arylic S50 pro streamer-cum-DAC which uses a sabbre ESS9023 DAC chip - which is an all-in-one package with an in-build LPF with op-amps. This DAC has an analogue voltage output and not a current output. For such a DAC chip the passive low-pass filters cannot be implemented. Only where the DAC chip and active LPF are isolated on a different package can the passive LPF be implemented.

Srijith was very curious to discover more and wanted to listen this passive DAC and checked with me if he can drop-in today. We are meeting in the afternoon for a listen and he will get his Arylic along with him as its very small box.

So what's the big deal if a FM is visiting for a listen? - Yes its a big deal for me as no FM has visited me past 4.5 years and the last visit was by @prem and mpw in the year 2019, December to listen Manohar's speaker. Since than almost 95% of my setup has changed / been modified and no FM till date has ever listened to my setup. There are over 20+ major/minor modifications to my setup and am trying to list them below from my memory -

- Amplifier - Changed from Dared VP300B SET tube to Directly Coupled KT88 mono-blocks - designed by Jeff Medwin - Aka @drlowmu
- Speakers - Changed from a single Russian driver + Dayton Audio subwoofer to - Russian Driver + Sachenwerck Field Coil + Cleavland Audio Alnico+ Bolton H-frame subwoofer
- Power cable change - from stock to mil speck silver plated copper wire with an unique geometry
- Interconnect change - from stock to time aligned interconnects using 5 metals in a unique geometry
- Speaker cable change - from polycab telephone cables to Fulton length mil spec silver plated copper wire 12+12 +14 awg- each terminal
- Marantz blueray player - from stock active LPF to DIY passive LPF using audio transformers
- Preamplifier - from active preamplifer using JFET & OPAMPS - to passive preamplifier using a quad ganged volume control
- speaker placement - from parallel to the wall - to diagonal to the wall for saving living room space and WAF

There are many minor changes which i am not listing - as that is part of continuous improvement - 5S.

So from the above you can notice that i am more a DIY person and try to gain maximum from my investments. I also believe that a best sounding setup can't be purchased but can only be made. But TBH, i myself don't have much exposure to a live performance (other than my Wife's occasional Carnatic vocals) or listening to other setup. The last setup i listened was at Prem's home in early 2019 where his JBL 4343 was connected to his stock Denon Integrated amplifier. Moreover i have stopped visiting what-hifi shows since 2018 and now currently don't have any reference of how other setup sounds for a comparison. Ignorance is Bliss - its said OR is it?

What Srijit listen today is my own version of what's a good sound and he is the first FM to listen to them today - hence the fuss.

Thanks for looking.
 

yogibear

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Similar story here. And my city has hardly any DIYers and serious / passionate lovers, I know of. Few ones I know are more impressed by big brand names even before they actually listen to a setup and I have hardly any brands and / or they under wraps…. (Not playing)

My setup is 90% DIYed (it was 100% including R2R DAC earlier and now ECDesigns PDR makes it 90%) , so no brand names to showcase to anyone.

Will be awaiting impressions / details on your upcoming rendezvous….
 

drlowmu

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Dear Hari,

This should be most interesting for both of you fellows.

But...... I would not get too focused on a reaction from just a single F.M.

Ideally, and over time, you need maybe half a dozen serious and well - experienced listeners, from the Mumbai / Thane area, to give your audio system a listen.

It would be great to have this F.M. @srijith post on this thread, his own reactions to your system, in his own words. Good - or Bad !!!

If time - possible, and if your phono is working well, allow him to also hear a bit - even a few minutes, of analogue / L.P. playback. That can be the most satisfactory of source material to feed your type of system. On a long term basis, L.P.s are my favored listening preference . My digital playback ultimately bores and always somewhat annoys me. Recall Hari, how you had to use L.P. playback, to best determine your amp's internal AC phase polarity correctness ? !!

Recall those Nursery Rhyme words ......." All the King's horses, and all the King's men, could never put poor Humptey together again ".

Well, have lotsa' fun !!

Jeff
 
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Hari Iyer

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It was a very short listening window lasting for only an hour as i had some urgent personal work in the evening which was super important and Srijit also turned by quite late than planned. He has plans to revisit again when we are more available - as this was an instant decision.

I would definitely comment only about two observations as it was very obvious -

- Shrijit Ayrilic Streamer + DAC was clean bold by my passive DIY LPF by light years . It was a Kinder Garden (Ayrilic) vs Ph.D (passive DIY DAC). No competition.
- He had bought his AudioQuest (AQ Green cables). This was connected for a comparison with my DIY - time aligned interconnect which has 5 metals in it . This too was completely clean bold. Jr.School (Audio Quest) Vs PhD (Diy interconnect) kind of comparison. No competition. The difference was so obvious that Shrijit immediately wanted me to make a pair for him. It did not take more than 2 minutes to ridicule the AQ.

Rest i shall ask Shrijit to comment - if any.
 

srijith

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It was a very short listening window lasting for only an hour as i had some urgent personal work in the evening which was super important and Srijit also turned by quite late than planned. He has plans to revisit again when we are more available - as this was an instant decision.

I would definitely comment only about two observations as it was very obvious -

- Shrijit Ayrilic Streamer + DAC was clean bold by my passive DIY LPF by light years . It was a Kinder Garden (Ayrilic) vs Ph.D (passive DIY DAC). No competition.
- He had bought his AudioQuest (AQ Green cables). This was connected for a comparison with my DIY - time aligned interconnect which has 5 metals in it . This too was completely clean bold. Jr.School (Audio Quest) Vs PhD (Diy interconnect) kind of comparison. No competition. The difference was so obvious that Shrijit immediately wanted me to make a pair for him. It did not take more than 2 minutes to ridicule the AQ.

Rest i shall ask Shrijit to comment - if any.
Thank you Hari Sir for inviting me for the session, was a wonderful session!

That Audio quest cable...phew the difference was day and night, i didn't ever believe cables can make such a huge difference. I bought Audioquest because i didn't want cables to be the weak link in the chain. However when we did the AB test i couldn't believe my ears.. You have to listen it to believe.

Some thing was wrapped around the music, the details were missing and the nuances were just not there, the sound was thin no life basically.

When we plugged Haris DIY cables, everything came to life. Kudos to Hari and his efforts. This has compelled me to look at getting better quality cables and do the DIY stuff, Seriously.
 

spirovious

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,i didn't ever believe cables can make such a huge difference.
This has been the story with many of us. Unless we have a good chain, its hard to find a difference. Same we used to discussed with Hari some years back and he started believing once he changed his chain. We used to listen with Denon AVR early and now his tube amp took things to next level. Happy DIY.
 

srijith

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This has been the story with many of us. Unless we have a good chain, its hard to find a difference. Same we used to discussed with Hari some years back and he started believing once he changed his chain. We used to listen with Denon AVR early and now his tube amp took things to next level. Happy DIY.
Yes we need have revealing system to actually test the components... This system definitely tells you what's working and what's not working...
 

Amarendra

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Yesterday night at 11:40PM (yes its not a typo) FM @srijith call me and wished to talk. We talked and he immediately went to the point where he has an Arylic Streamer with built-in DAC + preamplifier. He was not happy about how that sounds and as per him the output is very thin and he needs modification. One FM froim Bangalore (dont know name) had discussed with him and suggested to go for an R2R DAC to resolve this issue. Srijit had seen my adventures with a Passive DAC chip and was wondering if i can help.

He has an Arylic S50 pro streamer-cum-DAC which uses a sabbre ESS9023 DAC chip - which is an all-in-one package with an in-build LPF with op-amps. This DAC has an analogue voltage output and not a current output. For such a DAC chip the passive low-pass filters cannot be implemented. Only where the DAC chip and active LPF are isolated on a different package can the passive LPF be implemented.

Srijith was very curious to discover more and wanted to listen this passive DAC and checked with me if he can drop-in today. We are meeting in the afternoon for a listen and he will get his Arylic along with him as its very small box.

So what's the big deal if a FM is visiting for a listen? - Yes its a big deal for me as no FM has visited me past 4.5 years and the last visit was by @prem and mpw in the year 2019, December to listen Manohar's speaker. Since than almost 95% of my setup has changed / been modified and no FM till date has ever listened to my setup. There are over 20+ major/minor modifications to my setup and am trying to list them below from my memory -

- Amplifier - Changed from Dared VP300B SET tube to Directly Coupled KT88 mono-blocks - designed by Jeff Medwin - Aka @drlowmu
- Speakers - Changed from a single Russian driver + Dayton Audio subwoofer to - Russian Driver + Sachenwerck Field Coil + Cleavland Audio Alnico+ Bolton H-frame subwoofer
- Power cable change - from stock to mil speck silver plated copper wire with an unique geometry
- Interconnect change - from stock to time aligned interconnects using 5 metals in a unique geometry
- Speaker cable change - from polycab telephone cables to Fulton length mil spec silver plated copper wire 12+12 +14 awg- each terminal
- Marantz blueray player - from stock active LPF to DIY passive LPF using audio transformers
- Preamplifier - from active preamplifer using JFET & OPAMPS - to passive preamplifier using a quad ganged volume control
- speaker placement - from parallel to the wall - to diagonal to the wall for saving living room space and WAF

There are many minor changes which i am not listing - as that is part of continuous improvement - 5S.

So from the above you can notice that i am more a DIY person and try to gain maximum from my investments. I also believe that a best sounding setup can't be purchased but can only be made. But TBH, i myself don't have much exposure to a live performance (other than my Wife's occasional Carnatic vocals) or listening to other setup. The last setup i listened was at Prem's home in early 2019 where his JBL 4343 was connected to his stock Denon Integrated amplifier. Moreover i have stopped visiting what-hifi shows since 2018 and now currently don't have any reference of how other setup sounds for a comparison. Ignorance is Bliss - its said OR is it?

What Srijit listen today is my own version of what's a good sound and he is the first FM to listen to them today - hence the fuss.

Thanks for looking.
Hari- the danger of visiting your place is that most of us will begin hating our own set ups once we go home. A person who can remove HDAM in a marantz system will be nothing short of a wizard. The way you talk about building better DACs than premium R2R DACs makes me hate my career choice of taking finance coz what you speak is Greek and Latin to me :)
 

srijith

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@srijith what about the difference in DACs ?
No unfortunately we were not able to do AB test on the Dac since Haris Marantz was a blueray player which didn't have digital inputs
Hari- the danger of visiting your place is that most of us will begin hating our own set ups once we go home. A person who can remove HDAM in a marantz system will be nothing short of a wizard. The way you talk about building better DACs than premium R2R DACs makes me hate my career choice of taking finance coz what you speak is Greek and Latin to me :)
Exactly... Spoton till now the arylic is packed in my bag i have not removed it and connected back to my amp and am trying to research about getting better cables..
Exactly... Spoton till now the arylic is packed in my bag i have not removed it and connected back to my amp and am trying to research about getting better cables..
Hari if you can tell us which cable in the market will be close match to your cables.. Rca
 
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drlowmu

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Hari if you can tell us which cable in the market will be close match to your cables.. Rca
Has Hari had the ability/ resources/time to listen to all of the Manufactured RCA to RCA cables, to know what compares ?? Likely not.

In which case, perhaps he will show you how to build your own Interconnect cable.

Suggest / consider making RCA to RCA interconnects a standard 57 1/8th inches long, and not a meter long. For very short distances, perhaps half a Fulton length or 28.56 inches. Keep left and right channel interconnects separated - as in the photo below (Green enclosure in the center is a Manufactured Passive Attenuator at 10K Ohms ).

You are likely in for an additional treat or two.

If only you could ever A-B compare Hari's 9.52 feet speaker cables, on Hari's existing system, and not anyone else's.

Build instructions are already provided on HFV. These have easily bettered existing speaker cables when installed in six out of six quality systems, during the past seven years - (in the USA mostly ). 100% - thus far, .......is a pretty good accounting .
2016 RMAF Photo.JPG
Jeff
 
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[email protected]

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No unfortunately we were not able to do AB test on the Dac since Haris Marantz was a blueray player which didn't have digital inputs
Sorry bit confused.
This is what FM Hari quoted in post#4

‘’Shrijit Ayrilic Streamer + DAC was clean bold by my passive DIY LPF by light years . It was a Kinder Garden (Ayrilic) vs Ph.D (passive DIY DAC). No competition.’’
 

Hari Iyer

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Sorry bit confused.
This is what FM Hari quoted in post#4

‘’Shrijit Ayrilic Streamer + DAC was clean bold by my passive DIY LPF by light years . It was a Kinder Garden (Ayrilic) vs Ph.D (passive DIY DAC). No competition.’’
Shreejit had connected spotify in his streamer+ DAC and that was connected to my preamplifier. Most of his latest song selection could not cut mustard and was very dull and boring sounding. So we again switched back to passive DAC and my passive preamplifier.

The comparison was not apples and apples but oranges as the software was different. But if it was good it would have bettered my passive LPF, but it did not.
 

drlowmu

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Is what is termed the " Audioquest Evergreen " cables. pictured below, what this thread refers to as " Audioquest Green ?? "

If so, there are two things I easily see in this ad,
......... that turn me off immediately :

1) You can not have highest quality resolution by having BOTH channels share space together inside a single sheathing !!! The differing fields of each channel, at low signal levels, will interfere, one channel with the other channel. This muddles, smears, and pollutes the sound, due to field proximity of the two channels.

2) The advertised length below is " ONE METER". Some of us in the USA knew this was a undesirable sounding length for an interconnect, back in the mid to late 1970s, .............over 54 years ago.


AQ Green.JPG
It is now 2022. Will audio wire people ever wake up ???

Notice, it gets a 4.6 rating..... out of five stars.
:rolleyes:

Jeff
 
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Hari Iyer

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Is what is termed the " Audioquest Evergreen " cables. pictured below, what this thread refers to as " Audioquest Green ?? "

If so, there are two things I easily see in this ad,
......... that turn me off immediately :

1) You can not have highest quality resolution by having BOTH channels share space together inside a single sheathing !!! The differing fields of each channel, at low signal levels, will interfere, one channel with the other channel. This muddles, smears, and pollutes the sound, due to field proximity of the two channels.

2) The advertised length below is " ONE METER". Some of us in the USA knew this was a undesirable sounding length for an interconnect, back in the mid to late 1970s, .............over 54 years ago.


View attachment 70443
It is now 2022. Will audio wire people ever wake up ???

Notice, it gets a 4.6 rating..... out of five stars.
:rolleyes:

Jeff
Jeff, in my experience all highly marketed products always don't keep up to the mark and you actually pay for the hype. If you look at their catalogue they speak of hyper science. But proof of the pudding is in its eating. Period.
 
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