Garrard 6400 restoration

[Hiten]

Hello folks,
Posting some pics of my attempt to restore a Garrard 6400 turntable. No serious stuff just wanted get hands dirty. Turntable was in bad shape with lots of dirt and grime, idler wheel was slipping, auto function were not working and lots of vibration from motor and plinth. Except riveted parts whole turntable mechanism, motor, tonearm etc. were dismantled, and cleaned. All wires were rerouted and tie banded. All moving parts oiled or greased.

One modification done for this cheap turntable was, the motor had a conical pointed shaft resting on motor base, which made motor run hot at the base. I grinded the shaft little short and made it flat, put a ball bearing in and oiled. Got some reduction in the heat and now motor runs smooth.

Second modification was, this turntable has vicers and flat ball bearing on which the heavy platter shaft rests as shown in the picture below. A small plastic bottle base was cut, made a hole in the centre and fixed it on the base with Araldite. This serves as a oil bath for the bearing. Now oil lasts longer and bearing remains in this oil bath for smooth running of platter.

Some before/after pictures are here - Slideshow
Video of auto functions taken from my digital camera - Auto function video
Have given a vintage effect to make the video interesting.

Conclusion : DIY, fiddling with turntables and restoring old stuff is fun hyeah:
Regards

 

[omishra]

Hiten, nice show. Nice cleanup. You people have so many thing which we can learn. I like that video too.
Regards

 

[stevieboy]

Hiten wow! Looks superb after the care lavished! How did you get rid of all that rust?

Regards

 

[Hiten]

Thanks Omi and Stevie.

Hiten, nice show. Nice cleanup. You people have so many thing which we can learn. I like that video too.
Regards

If you mean video effects and slide show, they are very easy. Took just 2 min. to apply. Slideshow was done in Google Docs in a jiffy.
And buddy compared to electronics stuff you know restoration is nothing.

Hiten wow! Looks superb after the care lavished! How did you get rid of all that rust?
Regards

Bro, if you mean dark brown stuff on the mechanism it is hardened grease. First it was cleaned with kerosene brush than IPA, parts were wiped clean with cloth, and kept in hot warm place for one day to dry than oiled the moving parts, Plastic parts (speed change lever) were applied white grease. OR if you mean stuff below the headshell photo, it was some kind of glue on plastic panel. It was scrapped and plastic panel buffed. Some metal part did had little rust which was cleaned with sand paper. All in all good learning experience
Regards

 

[Saket]

Great Job Hiten,

I really liked & admired the oil bath that you have made out of nothing. Great innovative thinking!! This kind of oil bath can be applied to many turntables with no provision for such things esp. for the platter.

I hope it plays some good music.

Regards,
Saket

 

[Hiten]

Thanks Saket,
I think oil bath will only work for turntables having such bearing as most turntables have bush and single ball bearing which holds oil drops well, as shown in following pic.

Regards

 

[Saket]

Thanks for the suggestive pic Hiten,

I think it may be possible to make such an oil bath on the base of spindle on which the platter revolves. The entire bush of the platter can be immersed in a longish- plastic cap serving as an oil bath.
What do you say?

Saket

 

[soulforged]

holy cow! nice job hiten :clapping::clapping::clapping:

How did you clean up all that gunk and rust on the insides?

EDIT: whoops! read your response to Steve's queries after I posted mine...

 

[jls001]

Slightly unrelated: what oil would be good for the main bearing? Each OEM seem to be having their own proprietary oil. For example Thorens oil, Origin Live oil, etc.

I have seen recommendations for normal sewing machine oil (Singer) which I happily use, but I have also come across recommendations for motor oil (like 20W40 grade, which is a 4 stroke engine oil).

My simplistic thinking is if 20W40 oil is good enough to handle very high heat and rpm in excess of 5000 rpm, why can't it be good enough for a slow turning TT motor? Of course there are things like viscosity of oil which I know nothing about.

Any opinions?

 

[Saket]

Slightly unrelated: what oil would be good for the main bearing? Each OEM seem to be having their own proprietary oil. For example Thorens oil, Origin Live oil, etc.

I have seen recommendations for normal sewing machine oil (Singer) which I happily use, but I have also come across recommendations for motor oil (like 20W40 grade, which is a 4 stroke engine oil).

My simplistic thinking is if 20W40 oil is good enough to handle very high heat and rpm in excess of 5000 rpm, why can't it be good enough for a slow turning TT motor? Of course there are things like viscosity of oil which I know nothing about.

Any opinions?

IMO, 5W/30 or 10W/30 oil should be sufficient. Personally I wont spend on any OEM speciality oil as I believe its only marketing. I would use Synthetic oils which I use on my car & bike. If I can trust it for my engines, why not TTs? High grade viscousity oils will be heavy & thick when cool & run into clearances better when they heat up. I doubt that any Turntable bearing will produce that amount of heat which engines do! SO I would use a low viscousity grade oil which will easily run into all clearances between moving parts. & There will be hardly anything better than a synthetic oil.
I hope I have cleared your doubt.
Regards,
Saket

 

[reubensm]

IMO, 5W/30 or 10W/30 oil should be sufficient. Personally I wont spend on any OEM speciality oil as I believe its only marketing. I would use Synthetic oils which I use on my car & bike. If I can trust it for my engines, why not TTs? High grade viscousity oils will be heavy & thick when cool & run into clearances better when they heat up. I doubt that any Turntable bearing will produce that amount of heat which engines do! SO I would use a low viscousity grade oil which will easily run into all clearances between moving parts. & There will be hardly anything better than a synthetic oil.
I hope I have cleared your doubt.
Regards,
Saket

A friend who uses a Garrard Zero TT in Srilanka once told me that he uses Singer Sewing Machine oil with great results.

 

[Hiten]

@thanks soul.

I think it may be possible to make such an oil bath on the base of spindle on which the platter revolves. The entire bush of the platter can be immersed in a longish- plastic cap serving as an oil bath.
What do you say?
Saket

The Spindle I have shown, once you put in few drops the oil film covers the shaft and creates near vaccum and oil lasts longer. But it is always good to have as much lubrication as possible. Also highend Garrards already have a reservoir of felt which holds the oil. Also Some high end turntables like clear audio have inverted bearing and a spiral groove on the shaft which takes oil from the bottom and delivers at the top so it practically remains in oil forever while rotating.

Slightly unrelated: what oil would be good for the main bearing?

A forum member friend deals in high end lubrication oils for industries. Also it would be nice to catch up with him. Will report back soon.
Regards

 

[sachu888]

A friend who uses a Garrard Zero TT in Srilanka once told me that he uses Singer Sewing Machine oil with great results.

I also use Singer Sewing Machine oil with no problem till date.

Regards,
Sachin

 

[Hiten]

Yes + 1 to both Reuben and sachin. But let me see if any other option is available easily.
I am lucky to have a friend who has electronics parts shop (But he is shifting mostly to computer parts these days) He used to have/has all kinds of stuff. grease for plastic or metal, Silicon oil, Silicon cream, Heat sink compound, IPA, Bread board, copper etching plates etc. stuff.
Regards

 

[sachu888]

Yes + 1 to both Reuben and sachin. But let me see if any other option is available easily.
I am lucky to have a friend who has electronics parts shop (But he is shifting mostly to computer parts these days) He used to have/has all kinds of stuff. grease for plastic or metal, Silicon oil, Silicon cream, Heat sink compound, IPA, Bread board, copper etching plates etc. stuff.
Regards

Hiten,
let me know if you find 500,000 cSt Silicon oil.I am looking for cueing of my TT Silicone Damping Fluid For Tonearm Cueing Mechanisms, Damping Troughs and Monopivots I couldn't find it locally and foreign sellers don't ship to India.

Regards,
Sachin

 

[soulforged]

How did you clean the tonearm? Any pics fo that?

 

[Hiten]

500,000 cSt Silicon oil.

@ Sachin - I dont know which silicon oil is that but I will post picture of what I have. I think it will surly serve the purpose of damping.

How did you clean the tonearm? Any pics fo that?

@ Soul - Sure soul here you go.

Once I removed the mechanism, tonearm was the easiest to clean. Tonearm is basic type. As shown in the pic. From left - Tonearm holding base, tonearm wire, counter weight, bush on which tonearm rotates, tonearm tube, headshell and weight adjusting spring base. All throughly cleaned.
Regards

 

[stevieboy]

Hi Sachin,

Is it the same as silicon damping fluid? Why don't ebay sellers ship to india?

Regards

 

[jls001]

Once I removed the mechanism, tonearm was the easiest to clean. Tonearm is basic type.

WD40 is an excellent cleaner for tonearm. I learned this last week from a fellow forumer. His 3009 looks spanking new. May be I should handover mine for his TLC

 

[sachu888]

Hi Sachin,

Is it the same as silicon damping fluid? Why don't ebay sellers ship to india?

Regards

Hi Steve,
I think importing any liquid is not allowed in India.

Regards,
Sachin