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Help needed on buying a AV receiver + SWF + 5.1 speaker system

Mogami Cables

amit.gaharwar

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I am planning to buy an AV receiver + SWF + 5.1 speakers in Pune, India.

I am looking for a AV receiver which (preferably) can support USB (iPhone/iPod), and HDMI.
I listen mostly to rock with my favourite being Pink Floyd
Can somebody suggest a combo for my requirements.

I am running on a tight budget and my upper limit is INR 50K.
 

skumar

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Probably this is the most repeated advice on this forum, let's go over it once more:

a) If music is the only priority, go for a 2ch amp + 2.0 bookshelf speakers or floorstanders
b) If music and movies are equal priorities and budget is a constraint, go for a Yamaha/Denon/Marantz amp + 2.0 or 2.1 speaker set-up. Upgrade to 5.1 as and when budget permits
c) If 50k is your max budget for sometime to come and want to have 5.1 setup for movies NOW, go for a HTIB from Onkyo/Yamaha/HK etc.
 

Yogesh

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As, some of the friends sugested, Your require is exclusively for music go for 2.1 set-up. I f u plan for Music+Movie setup, in your budget following will help you.

1. Receiver Yam 363 Around 17-18K
Yam 463 about 20 K
Denon 1509 Don't know exact, buwould be in range.

2. Front BS Wharf 9.2/10.1 15K
BS Polk TSI 200 <15K
FS Polk TSi 300 <20K
BS Polk Rti a1 15
Mission m34i FS 18K

Now, Made in india and a bit low budget.
Sonodyne Sonus FS 2605V2 11k
Sonodyne Avant BS 150 9k

U can also have cheaper JAmo 406 FS, YAm FS 7390/8390 FS. But, Sq will be poor.

3. Center & Surround

Wharfe WH2 11 K
Sonodyne Sonus Center C2401+Sonus Rearr v2(BI-pol) 10K
YAmaha NSP 60 5K
JAmo Cen+Surr

I beleive, here money can be saved.

4. Sub
Polk PSW 110 <13K
Norge NSW 100 <9K
Sonodyne Roarr 210 15K
Sonodyne Roarr 108 9K
Wharfedale 150 18K

One, other options is buying 5105 nad upgrading the Fronts from above listing. This is the easiest and lowest cost option.

Hope this helps.

Happy Hunting.
 

amit.gaharwar

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Thanks everybody for your inputs ...

Just to clarify my combination of music and movies would be 65:35 ...
So if somebody can suggest based on the above requirement it will be really great.

HTiB from yamaha is YHT-195 which INR 35,047 ...

Anther one is Onkyo HT-S3200 .... it is INR 33,000

can somebody comment on their performance as regards movies and music both ...

and if any competing products you know please do let me know ...
I can stretch my budget till INR 50000

Thanks again for all your inputs
 

Yogesh

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Thanks everybody for your inputs ...

Just to clarify my combination of music and movies would be 65:35 ...
So if somebody can suggest based on the above requirement it will be really great.

HTiB from yamaha is YHT-195 which INR 35,047 ...

Anther one is Onkyo HT-S3200 .... it is INR 33,000

can somebody comment on their performance as regards movies and music both ...

and if any competing products you know please do let me know ...
I can stretch my budget till INR 50000

Thanks again for all your inputs

The actual price for both will be around 22K actually. Both are very good for Movies. ANother option will be Onkyo 5105 which will be a bit more powerfull. It goes for less than 30K, if u bargain hard even upto 27K. For, Music u need to Upgrade fronts with good BS/FS. Wharfe 9.2 BS/Mission 34I-35I FS are good options.

OR

With HTIB for movies, u can have separate stereo setup. In Low price end Norge have good stereo Amps. Add 9.2/m3Xi as speakers which also can act as fronts for your movie setup.

But, a Receiver+ 5.1 setup, options about which I posted in this thread earlier , will be the best bet.
 

amit.gaharwar

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I saw Onkyo 5105 and I am getting it for INR 36000 in Pune.

Wanted to know if it is a fair price?
(And that doesn't include any cables - HDMI, Coax/Optical, AV Jack, etc)

Can anybody comment on if it is a fair price because in the previous post I got to know that I can get the Onkyo set-up at way less than 36000.
 

vigneshprabhu

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The actual price for both will be around 22K actually. Both are very good for Movies. ANother option will be Onkyo 5105 which will be a bit more powerfull. It goes for less than 30K, if u bargain hard even upto 27K. For, Music u need to Upgrade fronts with good BS/FS. Wharfe 9.2 BS/Mission 34I-35I FS are good options.

OR

With HTIB for movies, u can have separate stereo setup. In Low price end Norge have good stereo Amps. Add 9.2/m3Xi as speakers which also can act as fronts for your movie setup.

But, a Receiver+ 5.1 setup, options about which I posted in this thread earlier , will be the best bet.

@Yohesh

Hi,
You mentioned in the previous post that Onkyo 5105 is better then 3200.
My question is Onkyo 5105 performs 130 W/Ch at 8 Ohms where as 3200 performs 120 W/Ch at 6 Ohms. Most of the floor standers (i feel) are 6 ohms. Does that mean in the long run if we where to replace the default front speakers with say Mission 34i the performance would better on 3200 ?
Isnt there a chance that if we connect 6 ohms speaker to 5105 it would damage the receiver. Please correct me if am wrong ?
 

samirarora

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All i can add in here is that ONKYO has fantastic after sales service, so if you get in trouble at a later time you will be sure to get good help. The same definitely cannot be said about Marantz in India...
So also consider after sales service in your purchase, as i have learnt the hard way.

Further, in speakers, do take a look at ELAC, they are underpriced for the performance they offer.

best wishes,
samir.
 

rydhun

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@Yohesh
Hi,
You mentioned in the previous post that Onkyo 5105 is better then 3200.
My question is Onkyo 5105 performs 130 W/Ch at 8 Ohms where as 3200 performs 120 W/Ch at 6 Ohms. Most of the floor standers (i feel) are 6 ohms. Does that mean in the long run if we where to replace the default front speakers with say Mission 34i the performance would better on 3200 ?
Isnt there a chance that if we connect 6 ohms speaker to 5105 it would damage the receiver. Please correct me if am wrong ?

Though these questions are not addressed to me, would like to add my $0.02:
1. Yogesh's comment on 5105 Vs. 5200 power could also be related to the fact that 5105 has an active subwoofer while 5200 has a passive one.
2. To compare the two power ratings, you should compare the values at the same impedance. 5105 rated at 130W/Ch at 8ohms, and 5200 rated at 95W/Ch at 8ohms. I see that Mission 34i has power rating of 25W-150W at 8ohms, so 5105 should be able to provide more power for it.
3. The power at 6ohms would be 115W/Ch for 3200, and about 150W/ch for 5105 (5105 receiver specs state power at 4 ohms & 8ohms, but not at 6ohms). I'm not really sure whether to interpret the lack of a 6ohm rating as lack of support for it. But, I believe that if an amp can support 8 ohms and 4 ohms, it would support 6 ohms as well. Other folks: Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Cheers!
 

vigneshprabhu

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Though these questions are not addressed to me, would like to add my $0.02:
1. Yogesh's comment on 5105 Vs. 5200 power could also be related to the fact that 5105 has an active subwoofer while 5200 has a passive one.
2. To compare the two power ratings, you should compare the values at the same impedance. 5105 rated at 130W/Ch at 8ohms, and 5200 rated at 95W/Ch at 8ohms. I see that Mission 34i has power rating of 25W-150W at 8ohms, so 5105 should be able to provide more power for it.
3. The power at 6ohms would be 115W/Ch for 3200, and about 150W/ch for 5105 (5105 receiver specs state power at 4 ohms & 8ohms, but not at 6ohms). I'm not really sure whether to interpret the lack of a 6ohm rating as lack of support for it. But, I believe that if an amp can support 8 ohms and 4 ohms, it would support 6 ohms as well. Other folks: Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Cheers!

I am pretty new to all this. Just trying to understand things around this.
Looking at the 5105 spec
I only see the mention of 8 ohms (Not sure if its safe to connect 4/6 ohms to it).
Doesnt amplifiers having something known as min impedance load ?
Does the 8 ohm in this context mean min load ?
Folks: Plz enlighten me.
 

samirarora

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@Yohesh

Hi,
You mentioned in the previous post that Onkyo 5105 is better then 3200.
My question is Onkyo 5105 performs 130 W/Ch at 8 Ohms where as 3200 performs 120 W/Ch at 6 Ohms. Most of the floor standers (i feel) are 6 ohms. Does that mean in the long run if we where to replace the default front speakers with say Mission 34i the performance would better on 3200 ?
Isnt there a chance that if we connect 6 ohms speaker to 5105 it would damage the receiver. Please correct me if am wrong ?


Hi,
130W per channe at 8 ohms is much more powerful than 120w per channel at 6 ohms. ( ie its not powerful by just 10 watts, but figure would be something like 30-40 watts more)......BUT watts per channel is not the only thing one should look out for.

Most floor standers and even bookshelves for that matter now are 4 ohms..

The thing to look out for in speakers is sensitivity. A higher sensitivity speaker will perform well on almost any amp.. but a lower sensitivity speaker will require much more amplification (and not suited for receivers at all) than one can think of or buy in a budget.

But here too, one has to be careful, companies like Klipsch claim sensitivities of 100 or more.. but they have their own style of calculationg the same.

On something like JAMO, a sensitivity of 90 or 91 is good. Some speakers like an old JBL i have, has sensitivity of 87... they hardly produce any sound at all and are basically useless to me.

best wishes,
samir.
 

vigneshprabhu

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Hi,
130W per channe at 8 ohms is much more powerful than 120w per channel at 6 ohms. ( ie its not powerful by just 10 watts, but figure would be something like 30-40 watts more)......BUT watts per channel is not the only thing one should look out for.

Most floor standers and even bookshelves for that matter now are 4 ohms..

The thing to look out for in speakers is sensitivity. A higher sensitivity speaker will perform well on almost any amp.. but a lower sensitivity speaker will require much more amplification (and not suited for receivers at all) than one can think of or buy in a budget.

But here too, one has to be careful, companies like Klipsch claim sensitivities of 100 or more.. but they have their own style of calculationg the same.

On something like JAMO, a sensitivity of 90 or 91 is good. Some speakers like an old JBL i have, has sensitivity of 87... they hardly produce any sound at all and are basically useless to me.

best wishes,
samir.

I do understand that 130W at 8 ohms becomes 260W at 4 ohms and
120W at 6 ohms becomes 180W at 4 ohms {Using relation P = (V*V) / R }. Basically power doubles when resistance is halved.
But my question is, is it safe to connect a 4 ohm speaker 8 ohm impedance receiver.
Isnt there something called min. load ?
Cause some one told me that it will damage the amp on the long run.
 
Last edited:

samirarora

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NO, i never implied that anywhere.

Ideally, one should not connect lower impedance speakers than whats rated on the amplifier, although higher impedance are ok, although that would result in loss in output.

most receivers are rated to go as low as 6 ohms and most speakers on the market are rated 4 ohms.. thats just the way it is.. i am not saying that its ok.


There could be issues of damaging the amplifier , esp. at loud volumes, and also speakers can be damaged if they are low impedance and low wattage at loud volumes.



Best is to either find a receiver which is rated to go as low as 4 ohms, which you will find that there is none, or get a dedicated power amp, which are generally rated to go as low as 4 ohms.. some even go lower.

OR.
just look for the right speakers.


but if not, do nt overdrive your amp and listen at reasonable levels.

best wishes,
samir
 

vigneshprabhu

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NO, i never implied that anywhere.

Ideally, one should not connect lower impedance speakers than whats rated on the amplifier, although higher impedance are ok, although that would result in loss in output.

most receivers are rated to go as low as 6 ohms and most speakers on the market are rated 4 ohms.. thats just the way it is.. i am not saying that its ok.


There could be issues of damaging the amplifier , esp. at loud volumes, and also speakers can be damaged if they are low impedance and low wattage at loud volumes.



Best is to either find a receiver which is rated to go as low as 4 ohms, which you will find that there is none, or get a dedicated power amp, which are generally rated to go as low as 4 ohms.. some even go lower.

OR.
just look for the right speakers.


but if not, do nt overdrive your amp and listen at reasonable levels.

best wishes,
samir

Thanks samir !!!
That brings back my question isnt it better to go for a 3200 (120 W/Ch at 6 Ohms) while compared to 5105 (rated 130 W/Ch at 8 Ohms). Cause most speakers are rated closer to 4-6 ohms. That way chances of spoiling either devices becomes less.... I hope my understanding is right...
(of course as rydhun mentioned I do understand that 5105 has a active sub thats a different discussion all together)
 

Yogesh

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Thanks samir !!!
That brings back my question isnt it better to go for a 3200 (120 W/Ch at 6 Ohms) while compared to 5105 (rated 130 W/Ch at 8 Ohms). Cause most speakers are rated closer to 4-6 ohms. That way chances of spoiling either devices becomes less.... I hope my understanding is right...
(of course as rydhun mentioned I do understand that 5105 has a active sub thats a different discussion all together)

5105 has two advantages.

1. It has 5.1 audio input. 3200 Doesn't.
2. It has active subwoofer.
3. If it it delivers 130W @ 8 Ohms, It delivers more power at 6 Ohms. And don't worry of damaging the speakers or amp. The impedance of speakers indicates the difficulty amp will have to drive the speakers. More impedance, it is more difficult to drive. All amp can drive all 8/6/4 Ohms speakers, It is safe. Less impedance speakers will be easy for amp to drive. Almost All speakers which are rated 6Ohms, are 8 Ohms compatible also.

Advantage 1 & 3 also apply to 463. And, don't pay 34K for 5105. Bargain hard, 27-30K will be good price.
 

vigneshprabhu

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5105 has two advantages.

1. It has 5.1 audio input. 3200 Doesn't.
2. It has active subwoofer.
3. If it it delivers 130W @ 8 Ohms, It delivers more power at 6 Ohms. And don't worry of damaging the speakers or amp. The impedance of speakers indicates the difficulty amp will have to drive the speakers. More impedance, it is more difficult to drive. All amp can drive all 8/6/4 Ohms speakers, It is safe. Less impedance speakers will be easy for amp to drive. Almost All speakers which are rated 6Ohms, are 8 Ohms compatible also.

Advantage 1 & 3 also apply to 463. And, don't pay 34K for 5105. Bargain hard, 27-30K will be good price.

Thanks for all the info..
wats the difference between the amp that comes along Onkyo 5105 and Yamaha 463 ? Which is better ?
Any thoughts on 5205 ? It is supposed to be successor of 5105 but it delivers only 100W @ 6 Ohms. The sub looks to be better(150W while compared to 90W) ?
I am thinking of two options for myself:
1. Go for Yam 463(17K) + Mission 34i (18K) = 35K (later add sub, sur and cen)
2. Go for ONK 5105(~27K) (later replace the Rear with Fronts and use Mission 34i as Fronts)
Wat do you guys think of it ? Any other suggestions ?
 
Last edited:

spirovious

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ONK highend model can support 4ohm spk,lower models can suppot upto 6 ohm.you can dwld manual & confirm.
 

hemantwaghe

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I am planning to buy an AV receiver + SWF + 5.1 speakers in Pune, India.

I am looking for a AV receiver which (preferably) can support USB (iPhone/iPod), and HDMI.
I listen mostly to rock with my favourite being Pink Floyd
Can somebody suggest a combo for my requirements.

I am running on a tight budget and my upper limit is INR 50K.

DecentBudget
Why Not
1) Yamaha 195@ 20 K - Good DVD @ 4K ,Cables @ 1 K -25 K
2) HK + JBL ( Do not go on wattage -sound is better than yamaha IMHO) 25K + DVD 4k + 1 Cables 1K-30 K

Remaing money buy a good 2 chneel stup
You can get used amp+ speakers @ 10-20 K and it will give most of the AVr run for money - source should be CD - a new Teac will cost you around 3K max 4 K a decent CD

If you are lucky you can get a GOOD old/vintage CD+ AMP( maybe + Tuner) + Speakers set will get @ 15 K!

Or Think of Norge where you can fit Brand new stuff IMHO a lot of old/vintage stuff is better than norge - but again you get new stuff....
 
Last edited:

Yogesh

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Thanks for all the info..
wats the difference between the amp that comes along Onkyo 5105 and Yamaha 463 ? Which is better ?
Any thoughts on 5205 ? It is supposed to be successor of 5105 but it delivers only 100W @ 6 Ohms. The sub looks to be better(150W while compared to 90W) ?
I am thinking of two options for myself:
1. Go for Yam 463(17K) + Mission 34i (18K) = 35K (later add sub, sur and cen)
2. Go for ONK 5105(~27K) (later replace the Rear with Fronts and use Mission 34i as Fronts)
Wat do you guys think of it ? Any other suggestions ?

Depends upon your budgrt,

Option 1 will put u back by atleast 60-65K. 35K+min 15K for sub+ 11->22K for surround. So, ur total cost will be from 62->80K as per ur center+surr+sub choice.

Option 2 will cost u 27+15=42K, 45 Max.

For, 5205 it delivers less power than 5105. As u siad sub is more powerfull. Another diff is 5205 doesn't have 5.1 analog input. Also, 5105 has all banana plug compatible connecntors. 5205 has one advantage though, It has Zone 2 connections. So, When u upgrade your fronts, u can put them in another part of your house as Setreo Zone2. One more diff is fronts of 5105 are 2way, while in 5205 they are 1way full range.
 
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