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Hiss & Hum coming from my Technics SL1210

Wharfedale Evo 4.2

manua

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I need some help here.

I have a Technics SL1210 MK2 Turntable & a Yamaha 496 Integrated Amp.
I use both Shure 97xe & 44-7 Cartridge in this setup.

When I play the AMP on Phono Input and crank up the Volume level of Amp to full there is no hiss or hum sound at all. Even if the blank platter is moving then also for 15mins or even after an hour there is no change. And then as soon as I play a Vinyl it plays superbly,but then after that again when I just keep it blank and crank up the volume to full I get this hiss and hum though not very loud but its there. And it continues till I shut down everything.

It seems as soon as the needle touches the vinyl surface this sound develops and after some time it gets steadied. I agree that none of us will listen to the AMP at full volume but when the hiss and hum I can hear at that level that means at lower levels also its there.

Why is this happening and what are the remedies?Please suggest.
 

antoniodias

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Primarily I would like to know if developed now, or is a persisting ongoing problem. If it happened recently kindly check your earthing if it is cut off or loose from your amplifier/ avr.
If not ok then proceed with turning and twisting the rca cable at both also not forgetting the earthing cable, if not successful changing the full rca cable from a well know company from the dry base of the Technics 1210
Player is advisable. Also try and remove the comple cartridge head shell, clean and replace it. I had a similar problem before and had to replace the complete RCA cable.
 

jls001

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With no record playing, do you hear the noise from your listening position if you select phono as source in your amplifier, with volume knob kept at your regular listening level?

I'm asking because phono preamplifiers are extremely high gain devices and they greatly amplify the noise inherent in phono signal. Phono input won't be as silent as, say, CD or AUX line level inputs which typically have much lower gain.
 

manua

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With no record playing, do you hear the noise from your listening position if you select phono as source in your amplifier, with volume knob kept at your regular listening level?

I'm asking because phono preamplifiers are extremely high gain devices and they greatly amplify the noise inherent in phono signal. Phono input won't be as silent as, say, CD or AUX line level inputs which typically have much lower gain.

With no Vinyl playing, when I start the setup, I do not get any sound at all with volume knob at any level (listening level or full volume).
Yes I know phono input won't be as silent as CD or AUX but when I start keeping Phono as input its almost silent.

Trouble starts as soon as I play a Vinyl. After say playing one or two songs if I crank up the volume knob (with or without the platter spinning) there I can hear that hiss and hum at very low level. At listening level this cannot be heard if not one goes close to the speaker,but only after I crank it up I can hear the same from my listening position.

My doubt is why will that hum and hiss surface when initially at same levels it was all quiet.
 

manua

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Primarily I would like to know if developed now, or is a persisting ongoing problem. If it happened recently kindly check your earthing if it is cut off or loose from your amplifier/ avr.
If not ok then proceed with turning and twisting the rca cable at both also not forgetting the earthing cable, if not successful changing the full rca cable from a well know company from the dry base of the Technics 1210
Player is advisable. Also try and remove the comple cartridge head shell, clean and replace it. I had a similar problem before and had to replace the complete RCA cable.


I have noticed it suddenly,maybe from a few weeks back. Not sure though whether it was there from long.
My house earthing is fine.
When I turn and twist the RCA cable jack which comes from the TT to the Phono input,the hum keeps changing up and down.

I do clean the cartridge headshell and the tone arm socket regularly but the problem keeps coming back.
 

jls001

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Possibly something wrong with your amp? The AX-496 is a fairly old model. Ten+ years old?
 

manua

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My AX496 is exactly 10 years old and plays fine till date. It has been serviced just a few months back,basically checking and cleaning all the components inside and the rca holes on the back panel.

If it is what is creating a problem then it should have similar problems with other TTs also if connected to its phono in.
 

antoniodias

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Please as I said I have the same model Technics SL 1210 mk2. I had similar problems,and I only changed the RCA cables because they changer the sounds as and when I gave it a twist. This might solve your problem. If you have an extra cable lying around please get that connected. I know you need to solder one side ends including the earthing from the player.
I was not talking of the earthing of your residence. You need to confirm that the grounding wire that comes from your player is well tightened to your amplifier.
 

TD150

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Just see the stylus is fixed tight to the cartridge, if it is not, that might create such issue. Other than this try moving the tonearm with cuing above the moving platter and see if any of such issue occurs, might be in a position half way. Further Check and tighten the headshell on the tonearm as any loose fit may also create such issues. Try these before you decide to change the RCA wirea.
 

manua

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Just see the stylus is fixed tight to the cartridge, if it is not, that might create such issue. Other than this try moving the tonearm with cuing above the moving platter and see if any of such issue occurs, might be in a position half way. Further Check and tighten the headshell on the tonearm as any loose fit may also create such issues. Try these before you decide to change the RCA wirea.

I have tried the stylus and headshell part and ensured everytime everythings is in order.
Moving the tonearm with cuing above the moving platter and putiing it suspended halfway,well this I will try and see.
Also will try another Technics headshell and check for myself whether the issue lies with the headshell or not.
 

manua

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Please as I said I have the same model Technics SL 1210 mk2. I had similar problems,and I only changed the RCA cables because they changer the sounds as and when I gave it a twist. This might solve your problem. If you have an extra cable lying around please get that connected. I know you need to solder one side ends including the earthing from the player.
I was not talking of the earthing of your residence. You need to confirm that the grounding wire that comes from your player is well tightened to your amplifier.

Yes changing the RCA cable is the last option which I will get my Technician to do it for me.
Yes the grounding wire is well tightened at the back of the Amp.
 

jay

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Hi Manua!!

Reading through your problem,would like to know if you could arrive at any solution?

Let me tell you that the problem you mentioned is quite a common issue that Turntable listners face across and there are many reasons for that which you need to check and negate one after the other. The setup that you have is quite a decent one and in general these Amps & TTs serve you a lifetime if handled and maintained properly without giving any glitch.

While addressing the problem in hand you have to keep in mind one thing that no Turntable on earth (whatever price bracket it might be) would ever behave like a CD player being as quiet as a CD player when the volume level is driven up. There will be some noise in the phono and the reason being the Cartridge picks up the wind sound in the atmosphere and thats the noise you get. It works in the same microphone technology where in any live show we sometimes find the shrill sounds coming from the Monitors as soon as the microphone gets near them. The more the sensitive the Cartridge is the noise will be louder as you bring up the volume. 44-7 with a 9.5mV Output will always come across loud in comparison to a AT91 Cartridge which has a 3.5mV Output. Try this out and you will see the difference. Also as you won't be listening your vinyls at this sound volume,so don't stress yourself much as under decent volumes these noises won't get picked up.

Still you go through all the parts of your TT and check for yourself, that all are in order and mositure free. RCA s of 1200 series are very very good if maintained well.
 
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Although I am too late for this thread but very much interested to know how u solved the problem. I am also facing the same with my set up. I also have a Yamaha amp. The problem is very much noticeable after increasing the vol +3 or more.
 

kuruvilajacob

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Since the hiss and hum is there only when the needle touches the record, I strongly feel the feedback is from some inside of the turntable. Maybe some earthing from arm wire is loose or dry soldering at the joint between arm wire and RCA cable connection
 

Fantastic

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Phono preamp's all have hiss no matter what price or type. Most modern amps have very high signal to noise ratios on line level inputs . Turning volume up to max ( an unrealistic level usually !) will still sound noise free ....that's not no noise in the system but so low that you can't hear it easily ..be it hum or hiss. Phono stages have hiss because the input stage generates hiss when connected to a large impedance ( phono cartridge load ) and it does so due to laws of physics . No one can wish it away but could minimise it close to the theoretical level possible with that load. Hum on the other hand could be from the power supply of the phono stage. Something you cannot deal with easily , or from hum pick up from the cartridge platter combination ( like Grado cartridges and platters made of magnetic material ), or just poor grounding of the turntable , cartridge, socket assembly. Poor RCA plugs too.
Switch off power to the turntable and place the stylus on a stationary record . If you get audible hum then it is most likely your grounding scheme to the turntable or the phono preamp itself. If all's well then lift up the stylus a bit, say 5mm from the record surface and turn on the turntable. If the hum levels appears or increases it could be hum pick up from the cartridge/platter combination . Double check the grounding again !
Hiss on the other hand which is varying would be due to poor connections ( oxidised usually !) or basically the noise ( constant noise ) produced by the phono and preamp combination. Typically a good phono stage with cartridge connected has audible hiss if you crank up the volume . This is normal. There is no such thing as no noise in any system especially a phono stage. It is is all relative to the maximum signal in your system. So a 90dB signal to noise has hum and hiss at a level 90dB below the maximum signal level say 5mV coming off your cartridge or about 1 Volt from your preamp or full undistorted output of your power amp. This is pretty noiseless at max volume.
Phono stage noise in a good system is usually around +70dB which is pretty good. But you will find they vary a lot between preamps and cost is no indication of it. A $38,000 Boulder (!) phono preamp had a measured S/N ratio of about 58dB weighted ! That isn't impressive at all. While a LKV Research phono preamp had a 90dB S/N ratio weighted ! That's very impressive . But they don't say how the measurement was made. With a load or connected or with shorted inputs.
However the moment you put the stylus on the groove all that doesn't matter so much as the best S/N ratio you can get from the groove stylus combination would typically be worse than 60 dB . Stylus shape contributes a lot to this. Better shapes costing significantly more. Typically vinyl which give a 60dB S/N ratio( usually just 55dB !) is MUCH noisier than the phono stage . The phono stage noise gets added to this and if it is 6 or 10 dB better than what you can get from a playing vinyl disc then it's fine . No need for 80dB S/N from a phono stage etc. But high end designs could routinely produce better than the 80dB figure. Do you need it ? Not really when you are playing music off a disc. It gets audible during the silent parts of the music and so is also music type dependent . For Metal music it wouldn't matter at all but become significant for soft classical music . Or even music by the modern generation like Koji Kitaro etc .
So focus on what you are getting at your listening position and volume setting and forget about what happens at maximum volume which is unrealistic and also affected by gain of the different stages and loudspeaker sensitivity etc. Much of which you cannot change easily. Just ensure that the connections are all OK and it's got hum down to a possible minimum in your system. Then sit back and enjoy your music along with the vinyl/phono stage hiss which will always be there. Trust that it is minimal in your system at "listening levels". Buy modern pressings or premium brands ( Mobile Fidelity etc ). Modern records apparently use better plastic , at least they say so ! Old generation vinyl have variable noise levels and depended on who pressed it . Some plants used better plastic material, typically Japanese pressings, and usually cost more too. Enjoy !:)
 

sachu888

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My DIY CNC phonostage is dead quiet. I don't think a properly designed phonostage should have hum or hiss. They are more prone to hum, but not all. There are so many builds, and almost everyone has the same opinion.

Regards
Sachin
 

Fantastic

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Yes I read that the CNC phono is very good. It's a very standard circuit configuration with low noise modern Opamps. I have not heard one yet but it should be good . Probably will hear one sometime soon . The maximum possible S/N ratio appears to be 83dB ( without a cartridge load ) and using the LME 49720 opamp . That's pretty much what is possible . With the cartridge loaded and due to signal loss in the eq stage some reduction in the noise will take place. I guess in the high +70dB range. That's very good. If the gain of all remaining stages is done optimally it will sound quite good noise wise. Wonder if anyone used the LM4562 opamp ?
 

raj12345

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Hello,
1.Try to connect your mobile to the phono input of your yamaha 496 amp and crank volume up and play for some time and see weather hum/hiss comes or not as it occured before. This needa to rule out causative factor as phono board of your amplifier.
2. Also the small capacitors and transistors inside your Technics 1210 can yield such issues. So better you check at them.
3. Clean/Chnage RCA Connectors of Deck as well as Amplifier with any agent if they arent gold plated.
4. Transistors in phonostage of yamaha 496 can be culprits.. So use another phono preamp to rule out this.
5. Nearby magnetic/electric field to phono preamp and RCA can yield this type of hum/hiss
 
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