home brew pcbs

[doors666]

any of you make your own home made pcbs? what are the things needed to do this. Where to get good boards, are sp road ones good enough. Does the big drilling machine work to do holes or do we need to get a small one. Is there an issue with the life of the home made pcb as compared to a commerically made one. There are quite a few good designs available on the net and getting a pcb is the biggest headache.
Is it possible for someone in bangalore to do a demo on how to do this.

 

[thatguy]

I started experimenting with making PCBs at home but gave up after I realized it is easier to make tracks in veroboards. I didn't proceed beyond the marker/etching method. Here is one result that I could find (not a useful circuit, this one is from the stage when I was just testing the etching solutions):

Copper clad borad: From Amar
Etching solution: Ferrous chloride from Vishal
Marker: CD markers (I bought five of them, they all kind of worked)
Drilling: Dremel+workstation+thin bits. Bits were a problem because the thinnest one I could find in SP road was 1.05 mm. I would have liked one that could do 0.8.

I have now moved to veroboard+bare copper wire and find it good enough for prototyping.

I was thinking of getting some done by Pcbpower. Did you face any problem with them?

 

[doors666]

I have now moved to veroboard+bare copper wire and find it good enough for prototyping.

I was thinking of getting some done by Pcbpower. Did you face any problem with them?

problem with the veroboard is that the layout quickly gets out of hand with complex circuits. the veroboards available on sp road are also not that good, the holes are too small.

havent tried them. do they do one off pcbs. how much do they charge ballpark.

 

[thatguy]

do they do one off pcbs.

The blurb from their website:

Fastest Delivery starting from as low as one working day (Express Service) Extremely user friendly website - 24/7 Quick Online Quote, Easy Ordering & Online Order Tracking Delivering Best Quality at very Competitive Prices Minimum Order Quantity - 1

Schematic Capture & Gerber layout Conversion of Through-hole to Surface Mount (SMT) PCB Pooling Services PCB On-Demand Services Metal Backed (IMS) PCBs for High-intensity LED Applications PCB Assembly SMT & Through-hole Technology

I am counting on them making me one or two good quality PCBs for my power supply in about a month's time.

 

[sachu888]

The blurb from their website:




I am counting on them making me one or two good quality PCBs for my power supply in about a month's time.

They are very good.I regularly get PCbs from them. Cost is high especially for less quantities.They will also need Gerber files to manufacturing PCBs.You can try any local manufacturer if quantity is less.

Regards,
Sachin

 

[omishra]

Hi,

I used toner transfer method successfully. If you want I can show the results in pics. The method was like this -

1. Prepare required layout using expressPCB software.
2. Capture only copper side in black and white.
3. take care so that you can get actual copper side from components side.
4. Paste this into document file and resize for actual size in inches or mm.
5. Print this on butter paper or glossy page of newspaper using laser printer only. Paper is such that it could dissolve easily into water and leaves toner easily.
6. Clean the PCB clad using metal scrubber and IPA.
7. put copper clad face upside, toner side of print over copper clad, and one bond paper over it.
8. Match print on the PCB clad of required size and press it using hot iron.
9. This way toner will melt and stick to PCB clad.
10. Now after pressing and heating, cool this and let paper dissolve into soap water tub.
11. Once paper is out you have design on clad.
12. Clean this using toothpick, but carefully.
13. For make over you can use eraser pen ( which contains white ink) used for covering written text. Camlin cover-It is one brand. This need press action which could remove toner. So be careful.

Now carefully prepare ferric chloride solution (This is very dangerous action and solution is highly toxic which can kill any leaving entity including plants) and let copper removed. From here disposing remaining material, drilling and tinning is another story. If you want then I can continue.

 

[doors666]

yes please do.
how toxic. to drink, to touch, to inhale?

 

[omishra]

yes please do.
how toxic. to drink, to touch, to inhale?

Making ferric chloride solution is exothermic chemical reaction. When you dissolve Ferric Chloride into water it creates large amount of heat and could splatter that on face. So put little amount of powder into water and never put water into power.

Ferric chloride is absorbed into human through touch also. It's side effects could be seen in medical terms which are out of my knowledge terms. I stopped this once got toddler into home.

For details of toner transfer method look at this link
Make PCBs at home with magazine paper and your laser printer

 

[doors666]

Copper clad borad: From Amar

I have now moved to veroboard+bare copper wire and find it good enough for prototyping.

what are the specs, board, cu thickness etc.

They are very good.I regularly get PCbs from them. Cost is high especially for less quantities.They will also need Gerber files to manufacturing PCBs.You can try any local manufacturer if quantity is less.

Regards,
Sachin

Can you give some idea how much do they charge. i tried their site, the calculator does everything but show the prices.

I have seen some shops on sp road offering board making, but they do only large quantities. anyone tried sp road guys for this. what file formats do they accept. looks like another trip is in order.

From here disposing remaining material, drilling and tinning is another story. If you want then I can continue.

How do you dispose the waste. whats tinning in this context.

any one tried this method. uses vinegar, h2o2 and salt for etching.
http://www.stephenhobley.com/blog/2...ng-with-forces-i-dont-understand-the-formula/

 

[thatguy]

what are the specs, board, cu thickness etc.

No idea. He had just one type. I bought it for practicing PCB making. It does look cheap but that did not matter for what I was trying to do.

I bought a few boards from Amazon (probably this one) for real work. They do look a lot better. The description says "1 oz. (.0014) of copper per side" but I am not sure what that means. It says the same thing for all the boards.

 

[doors666]

Bits were a problem because the thinnest one I could find in SP road was 1.05 mm. I would have liked one that could do 0.8.

you can get it from here, bits from 0.4 to 1.2mm

PCB Drills - Nex Robotics

 

[anuragn]

Its fun cooking your own PCBs and is way easier to handle a complex circuit compared to a piece of veroboard.
The method descirbed by Om is the standard method and I also use the same technique. I use glossy magazine pages but which are not thick (e.g. the thin low quality pages of AV max comes in handy). Next time will try with glossy newspapers also.
The most critical step is proper heating/pressing to transfer the pattern from paper to copper. If done too hard and if the paper shifts during the process, it becomes smudgy. And if done lightly, there will be breaks/gaps in the mask.
Should definitely try once. The fruit of labour will be much sweeter than using a veroboard

 

[thatguy]

you can get it from here, bits from 0.4 to 1.2mm

PCB Drills - Nex Robotics

Ordered one of these so I am good for now. But it is great to know there is an Indian source. How are these guys?

Also, I tend to be careful in buying bits because bad bits can chip and hurt you.

 

[doors666]

went to sp road, got some copper clads and powder to experiment. I will try the vinegar+h2o2+salt method first and if it doesnt work, then try the poison. Ran into sbg on vishaal. Now a days its happening more frequently that I am running into hfv diyers on sp road. few days ago ran into josephjohnt in goodwill. Good sign

Tahir (on the left hand side after amar) has hand held drill (85/-), power drill for pcbs (675/-) and 0.4-1.2mm bits (10 bucks a pop).

 

[quad]

went to sp road, got some copper clads and powder to experiment. I will try the vinegar+h2o2+salt method first and if it doesnt work, then try the poison.

Another etchant is 2 parts H2O2 to 1 part Muriatic Acid (HCL) which is easily available
in local shops, as toilet cleaning acid. There are tons of links for this mix.
ALWAYS add the Muriatic Acid to the Hydrogen Peroxide, NOT the other way around.

 

[kaushik]

Another etchant is 2 parts H2O2 to 1 part Muriatic Acid (HCL) which is easily available
in local shops, as toilet cleaning acid. There are tons of links for this mix.
ALWAYS add the Muriatic Acid to the Hydrogen Peroxide, NOT the other way around.

i am a fan of this h2o2.. as u get in many chemists.follow the instructable on this.
(at the instructable dot com site)
but the home brew pcb is for freq diy testings only,avoid it for finished designs
*local vendors will do pcb for u in 25Rs,quantity is 5,boards like 4X7 cm(eg.om electronics,bangalore)
*the drilling is tedious if u have chips most tiny smd chips need 7mil spacing ,but the homebrew pcb cant achieve that with usual methods
*no real solder mask u can do easily,u can paint and have simulated solder mask
UV curable ones are tricky
*copper clad boards are of low quality,thickness is less,
*finally poor looking yellow color, as compared to red/blue glassepoxy boards with slik screen see this:

 

[doors666]

but the home brew pcb is for freq diy testings only,avoid it for finished designs
*local vendors will do pcb for u in 25Rs,quantity is 5,boards like 4X7 cm(eg.om electronics,bangalore)

i spoke to om yesterday, he doesnt do it. his other shop guy gave me a pcb makers number. that guy is charging the usual, setup + per pcb charges and its nowhere as cheap as you are mentioning. Will talk to nsk and some others in the next trip.

*the drilling is tedious if u have chips most tiny smd chips need 7mil spacing ,but the homebrew pcb cant achieve that with usual methods

dont intend to do smd at present.

*no real solder mask u can do easily,u can paint and have simulated solder mask

was planning on tinning. with plastic pens also sound like a decent idea. this is to prevent oxidation of copper right?

UV curable ones are tricky
*copper clad boards are of low quality,thickness is less,

dont plan to use UV ones. cu clad is fine. thickness of board is less or the copper size is less?

*finally poor looking yellow color, as compared to red/blue glassepoxy boards with slik screen see this:

yeah, it wont look pretty, but will do the job right. is there an issue with the life of the home made board? If it functions as good and lasts as good as a manufactured one, I am good with it. But if I can get it done for real cheap on sp road, I have no issues with that

 

[kaushik]

i spoke to om yesterday, he doesnt do it. his other shop guy gave me a pcb makers number. that guy is charging the usual, setup + per pcb charges and its nowhere as cheap as you are mentioning. Will talk to nsk and some others in the next trip.

dont intend to do smd at present.

was planning on tinning. with plastic pens also sound like a decent idea. this is to prevent oxidation of copper right?

dont plan to use UV ones. cu clad is fine. thickness of board is less or the copper size is less?


yeah, it wont look pretty, but will do the job right. is there an issue with the life of the home made board? If it functions as good and lasts as good as a manufactured one, I am good with it. But if I can get it done for real cheap on sp road, I have no issues with that

om guy used to do pcb via some vendor in 2010,i got a guitar fuzz pcb from an old forum guy.
many local guys do even awesome quality audio grade pcbs,one old member 'suds' used to sale them in DIYA.
problem is there are commercial diy gurus who keep these info.


tinning is mainly for solder points ,you can tin the full pcb ..another 'alternate' but ok job.or leave as it is very less will happen to it unless it is in some industrial env.

UV mask is one good homebrew mask,but only via import.