How do you handle people like this ??

[vivek.saikia]

Exactly... Why the hell are we judging this guy... He likes his music in a particular way & has bought a system which suits his need... His ears , his money, his life , his decision... I am not saying the things the OP is saying won't improve the quality of sound , I am just saying let him be happy with his decisions...

I think you are missing the whole point. The OP is trying to make him even more happier. I see this as a selfless act on the part of the OP to spread the joy of Pure music hyeah:

 

[corElement]

At OP

How do you handle people like this ?

Option 1 : Educate them
Option 2 : Call them an idiot
Option 3 : If he's a friend then he'll be cool with it. If he's not a friend then I'd call them an idiot anyway and usually don't end up being their friend because I make it a point not to be friends with people who cannot be dynamic in their thought process and refuse to explore avenues apart from the 1st thought that comes to their mind.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

At the end of the day. Its his ears. If he likes how it sounds. Who are we to judge and comment

Because it isn't some random guy who's sound system square_wave happened to hear, it is an unrandom guy who asked...

He recently asked me this question;

I love my music ! Can I improve the sound by investing in a good subwoofer, floor standing speaker and AV receiver ?

 

[captrajesh]

No amount of explanation will convince him to invest in a USB dac or good quality flacs or itunes.

No point; leave him alone.

sometimes I wonder how to deal with people who seem to know everything about everything, especially audio - when they really don't know that much.

There are quite a few right in this very forum, judging every post scientifically, as if we have reached the pinnacle of technology where everything can be explained scientifically.

No point reasoning with them. Best way is, leave them alone.

 

[square_wave]

i don't think it has anything to do with judging anyone.
i guess when people are passionate about things (things related to audio in this case) there is bound to be a fair amount of proselytising zeal and of course frustration when normal people don't seem to get it.
on the other hand normal people would rather have the audiophile on the couch and not the other way round.

Yup....I wouldnt have talked to this guy if he hadnt expressed interest in improving his system in the first place. But all throughout the exercise, he seems to have already made up his mind

 

[square_wave]

A friend who is into high performance cars recently told me about another instance wherein he spend almost a week with one guy who wanted advice for a new car. The dude seemed genuinely interested and he ended up spending a lot of time discussing all the intricacies, research into new models .....and gave him some fine advice.

A week later....... lo and behold.....he has picked up a funny car which was exactly what my friend told him not to pick up.....hello ? why do you waste a hobbyists time then ????

 

[BLASTO]

funny car

Err.. Santro?

 

[alpha1]

Oh, really? Please read MP3 vs AAC vs FLAC vs CD | Stereophile.com.

Cheers

Oh my, you mean Stereophile for once actually relied on measurements than ears! And using test tones instead of music!!

Second: I am surprised seeing those graphs.
Anyone with a decent PC and access to a Digital audio workstation can work out the details. And with MP3 320 CBR or V0 VBR - the results are NOT as bad as shown. (-50dB from test tone)

A simple ABX comparison on foobar2000 (or any other software you wish) can reveal that except for certain "difficult to encode = electronic music", we* cannot distinguish between raw audio and MP3 320CBR (or V0-VBR).
Again its a simple test utilizing the PC, Audio interface, amp, speakers.

*I took the liberty of adding everyone by calling WE. You are free to interpret it as "I and a coterie of friends" (a few who said they could distinguish)



*** Let me add the graphs that I obtain from CBR and VBR encodings.

 

[venkatcr]

Oh my, you mean Stereophile for once actually relied on measurements than ears! And using test tones instead of music!!

Irrespective of what you think, EVERY review of Stereophile is always backed up by a technical analysis of the product.

Anyone with a decent PC and access to a Digital audio workstation can work out the details.

Yes, anyone can. But does that anyone have the knowledge and experience of John Atkinson, Michael Fremer, Robert Harley, and others? Even more than the knowledge, do that anyone have the access and experience of having dealt with and reviewed thousands of equipment. John has seen, met and spoken to more audio designers than you have even heard of, let alone met. He has reviewed equipment you have not heard of and will most probably never have the opportunity to even see in your life.

One of the first things I do in life is to accept with humility when I meet someone who is more knowledgeable. I have always found such people to be not only knowledgeable, but also have the humility to share their knowledge with you if asked properly.

Coming from a country where a Guru is revered, I find the arrogance and non-acceptance of better knowledge a bit surprising.

Cheers

 

[soulforged]

My $0.02...

Steer clear...don't try to make this world a better sounding place...

Now you know the kind of guy he is, next time he comes to bounce his decisions off you, be non-committal...

"If you think it sounds better..."
"I don't have much idea about it..."

There's no point getting frustrated with folks with know-it-all attitude that they shove down your throat with an aggressive tone. YOU know what sounds right for you, go for it and be happy...

If someone comes to you and seeks advice in earnst, help him else lose the guy as quickly as you can and get back to your sweet sounding shell

IMHO totally...

 

[square_wave]

My $0.02...

Steer clear...don't try to make this world a better sounding place...

Now you know the kind of guy he is, next time he comes to bounce his decisions off you, be non-committal...

"If you think it sounds better..."
"I don't have much idea about it..."

..

Yup...this is what I do these days

 

[jls001]

on the other hand normal people would rather have the audiophile on the couch and not the other way round.

And I thought audiophiles are well-adjusted individuals, sociable and not a screw loose in the cranium?

 

[jls001]

Irrespective of what you think, EVERY review of Stereophile is always backed up by a technical analysis of the product.

+1. At least for the full equipment reviews. Perhaps the measurements are not available in their web archives but the print mag certainly has elaborate measurements and explanations spanning across pages of print.

 

[captrajesh]

And I thought audiophiles are well-adjusted individuals, sociable and not a screw loose in the cranium?

Actually there are quite a few of them masquerading not only as audiophiles but as experts right in this forum.:indifferent14:

 

[Flash]

Actually there are quite a few of them masquerading not only as audiophiles but as experts right in this forum.:indifferent14:

+1 to that

 

[Vijay_s]

+1 to that

There should be a +1 or like button in this forum. Thanks button have a different meaning

 

[modrachlan]

>How do people like this become head of divisions in IT companies ?

Believe me, you can be head of IT and lack all common sense, and good taste, for that matter.

 

[alpha1]

Irrespective of what you think, EVERY review of Stereophile is always backed up by a technical analysis of the product.



Yes, anyone can. But does that anyone have the knowledge and experience of John Atkinson, Michael Fremer, Robert Harley, and others? Even more than the knowledge, do that anyone have the access and experience of having dealt with and reviewed thousands of equipment. John has seen, met and spoken to more audio designers than you have even heard of, let alone met. He has reviewed equipment you have not heard of and will most probably never have the opportunity to even see in your life.

One of the first things I do in life is to accept with humility when I meet someone who is more knowledgeable. I have always found such people to be not only knowledgeable, but also have the humility to share their knowledge with you if asked properly.

Coming from a country where a Guru is revered, I find the arrogance and non-acceptance of better knowledge a bit surprising.

Cheers

Did I speak anything about Equipment - where I definitely have less knowledge and experience than the esteemed Sterophile camraderie?

I was critical about their measurements not because they don't perform measurements - but because they discard it when they wish to promote something. Especially in the case where the measurements are not exceptional, but the product is "supposed" to be. Please have a look at their archives of speakers - the frequency responses and the waterfall plots.
Their measurements are not commensurate with the audio commentary in few cases.

Quite frankly, the fact that Stereophile staff is more experienced in sound engg, production, reprodcution, or anything else has got nothing to do with whether what they write is wrong or right. They can have any number of reasons to project wrong information (mistakes/errors also included)

Anyway as I said, I created a 2048 Hz test tone - sine wave.
Taken the frequency response table* of it.
Converted the test tone to V0 mp3 (VBR with about 256 kbps bitrate) - taken the frequency response table.
Converted the orginal test tone to V5 mp3 (VBR with abour 130 kbps) - again taken the frequency response table.

I have enclosed the three here in the zip file. I have also taken the liberty of showing only 1000-4000 Hz spectrum.

Observations:
1. The test signal is -1 dB
2. The noise floor is about -140 dB
3. With mp3 v0 the noise floor is about -100 dB
4. mp3 v5 noise floor is about -100 dB

Now YES there is a difference of 40 dB. But has anyone even tried to hear the -100 dB levels? Our hearing usually fails at about -72 dB.

In any case this is quiet different from what stereophile presented (-80 dB noise for mp3).
Another case where Stereophile was WRONG was that mp3 at higher bitrate will have lower noise floor. (it doesn't)

Anyway, since the people on this thread are more interested in showing respect and seeking respect, mathematics and science WILL take a back seat (as it has always taken in India - no progress after Aryabhat and Susruta). Sorry for ruining the audio bliss and negative notions ...


*Frequency response was created using Audacity and BlackmanHarris window
(Window function - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) - and therefore you see few dBs around the 2048 Hz. It doesn't mean that there are other frequencies also around 2048 Hz, its just the result of windowing function.