How to match floorstander with subwoofer

[tanmayj]

Hi,

I have already bought the TSi 400 (Floorstanders) and the CS-10 (Center Channel) and an Onkyo 616 (which I'm awaiting shipment from the UAE). I have zeroed in on the rears - TSi 100 - which I'll be buying later this month.

The way I see it, there are the following considerations to make while pairing Center/ Rears with a particular set of floorstanders / receiver.

1) Wattage - Ensure that the receiver can drive the speakers without getting overloaded. To this end I've ensured that the Onkyo 616's max-wattage per channel is more than the TSi 400's max. wattage.
2) Timbre Matching - All Polks are Timbre Matched
3) Relative size of speakers to ensure that they dont overshadow each other. To this end, the decision was easy because the CS-10 and the TSi 100s use the same 5 1/4" drivers as the TSi 400s.

Now I want some advice on how to choose a subwoofer. I have two choices here: PSW 110 and PSW 125 from Polk.

1) Wattage - All Receivers only talk about wattage for the 7 channels, never for a Subwoofer. Since the subwoofer is to be an active subwoofer, is the subwoofer limited by the wattage of the Receiver? For eg. if I buy a 300W subwoofer, will it try to pull the 300W from the receiver, or will it pull them directly from the electrical power supplied to it? If the second case is true, then I should be able to attach a 300 (or whatever) wattage subwoofer with a lower powered Receiver; unlike speakers which would overload and clip the receiver. Is my understanding correct?
2) Can anybody tell me if a 300W PSW 125 will overshadow the max. 200W wattage TSi 400 fronts?
3) I'm assuming for Subs, timbre matching wouldnt be a major issue. Any other Sub I can look at - budget of 15 - 20K Max.

 

[manniraj]

I would suggest that first you get the system setup without the sub and see if it sounds good to your ears with enough bass as you have got the TSi400. If not then look for a sub, in my case I hardly use the Jamo sub with my Yamaha FS. Coming to your queries..

1. A subwoofer is active hence does not depend on the wattage of the amplifier/receiver. It is externally powered.
2. Normally Timbre matching is done for the LCR (left/center/right) channels only. For the surrounds any other brands will do.
3. Yes for subs there is no need to timbre match it has to just match to your ears. Not sure what other models you can look, other experts will surely pitch in.

thanks

 

[gobble]

Dont forget speed. If your mid drivers are fast you will need a sub known for its responsiveness that is not sluggish. But you have to worry about these more with lightweight cones or typically single driver setups. With more generic mass market products any sub that is not badly designed and sluggish will do I guess.

--G

 

[Flash]

1) Wattage - Ensure that the receiver can drive the speakers without getting overloaded. To this end I've ensured that the Onkyo 616's max-wattage per channel is more than the TSi 400's max. wattage.

Well most budget / mid segment AVR's have never been honest with their power ratings .
These are the specifications for the NR 616
Power Output: 165 W/Ch (6 Ohms, 1 kHz, 1% THD, 1 Channel Driven, IEC);
175 W/Ch (6 Ohms, 1 kHz, 1 Channel Driven, JEITA)

Onkyo has rated the power output with a single channel driven not with 2 channels or 5 channels.
They have also rated the power with a 6 ohm load not a 8ohm. Besides that they have measured the power output with a 1khz freq not 20hz-20khz.

I am pretty sure with a 8 ohm 20hz-20khz measurement with 2 channels driven the power ratings would be much lower.
with 5 channels /7 channels driven I suspect the total RMS supplied to each speaker would probably be in the range of 50 - 65 watts.

So take the AVR's power ratings with a pinch of salt.

However the Pok TSi 400 is pretty sensitive @ 91 db. So it would not pose a problem with the NR 616.
However if you play your movies really loud the receiver will run out of steam especially at dynamic peaks

Now I want some advice on how to choose a subwoofer. I have two choices here: PSW 110 and PSW 125 from Polk.

1) Wattage - All Receivers only talk about wattage for the 7 channels, never for a Subwoofer. Since the subwoofer is to be an active subwoofer, is the subwoofer limited by the wattage of the Receiver? For eg. if I buy a 300W subwoofer, will it try to pull the 300W from the receiver, or will it pull them directly from the electrical power supplied to it? If the second case is true, then I should be able to attach a 300 (or whatever) wattage subwoofer with a lower powered Receiver; unlike speakers which would overload and clip the receiver. Is my understanding correct?

The receiver sends out a signal not amplification from the .1 channel. So it is not limited by the AVR.
A power subwoofer has a plate amplifier built into it. which supplies the power. So yes you are correct

You can connect a 150wall / 300 watt / 1000 watt etc sub to a receiver

2) Can anybody tell me if a 300W PSW 125 will overshadow the max. 200W wattage TSi 400 fronts?
3) I'm assuming for Subs, timbre matching wouldnt be a major issue. Any other Sub I can look at - budget of 15 - 20K Max.

No it will not overshadow your TSI fronts. All active subwoofers have a volume gain knob which you can adjust to match the rest of the speakers .
Besides the Receiver has Audessey Calibration . So the AVR will take care of calibration and setting the appropriate levels

 

[tanmayj]

Thanks folks. Now for the last part of my query: Any other Subs besides the Polk 110 and 125s that I should be looking at in the sub-20000 range?

 

[prosenjit]

Well most budget / mid segment AVR's have never been honest with their power ratings .
These are the specifications for the NR 616
Power Output: 165 W/Ch (6 Ohms, 1 kHz, 1% THD, 1 Channel Driven, IEC);
175 W/Ch (6 Ohms, 1 kHz, 1 Channel Driven, JEITA)

Onkyo has rated the power output with a single channel driven not with 2 channels or 5 channels.
They have also rated the power with a 6 ohm load not a 8ohm. Besides that they have measured the power output with a 1khz freq not 20hz-20khz.

I am pretty sure with a 8 ohm 20hz-20khz measurement with 2 channels driven the power ratings would be much lower.
with 5 channels /7 channels driven I suspect the total RMS supplied to each speaker would probably be in the range of 50 - 65 watts.

So take the AVR's power ratings with a pinch of salt.

However the Pok TSi 400 is pretty sensitive @ 91 db. So it would not pose a problem with the NR 616.
However if you play your movies really loud the receiver will run out of steam especially at dynamic peaks



The receiver sends out a signal not amplification from the .1 channel. So it is not limited by the AVR.
A power subwoofer has a plate amplifier built into it. which supplies the power. So yes you are correct

You can connect a 150wall / 300 watt / 1000 watt etc sub to a receiver




No it will not overshadow your TSI fronts. All active subwoofers have a volume gain knob which you can adjust to match the rest of the speakers .
Besides the Receiver has Audessey Calibration . So the AVR will take care of calibration and setting the appropriate levels

very wisely said...
dont know what is the problem of avr brands to be total honest and perfect at specs acording to actual conditions..


anyway to op
yes off cousre check other subs under 20k,
sonodyne roar
wharfe subs
astonia

check and demo...take your pick.

 

[Flash]

very wisely said...
dont know what is the problem of avr brands to be total honest and perfect at specs acording to actual conditions..

With mass market low priced models most reputed manufacturers are fighting for decent sales figures .
Most first time buyers or buyers with a shoe string budget look at Power ratings and feature set without looking into it in depth.
A 160 watt @ 6 ohm 1 channel driven specifications looks a lot better on paper than 50 watts @ 8 ohms 7 channels driven.

However mass market brands Sony , Philips , LG , Samsung are the biggest culprits here with hyped up specified power ratings

 

[tanmayj]

OK a couple more questions:

1) How important is the port location of the Subwoofer? My living room interiors are such that I HAVE to place the sub next to my floorstanders, flush against the wall. Do I have to look for downfiring subs or rear-firing subs would be OK? My current Sub is a JBL HTIB bundled sub with an 8 inch driver and front-firing.

2) I checked online and saw that a Sub called BIC Accoustech F12 has got rave reviews online. Also it fits my budget (seen in USD). I'm trying to pull out the Indian distributor for BIC America, but their website is down.

Any idea where I can get INR prices for this BIC Acoustech F12 subwoofer? Any general reviews about it?