Humaneness has taken a walk..

[panditji]

Cannibalism !!!!


Ignoring the sentimental part which is shaped by our childhood and society among others and is of course very personal and important, surprisingly the scientific difference between Hemoglobin and Chlorophyll is Iron in one and magnesium in the other. Else its almost exactly the same structurally . This is perhaps because one consumes oxygen to give our Co2 vs Vice Versa for the other

There are lots of differences and commonalities between all living things ie plants and animals and lots of philosophies/facts/perceptions which shape our individual practices .
But again, each is free to practice their option, the problems start when some consider themselves higher than the other and starts to evangelise that belief on others

In that case, are humans and plants also very similar with only haemoglobin and chlorophyll as the only big difference? I think humans and animals are more similar to each other and plants are quite different to either of us.

 

[Deleted member 15865]

But again, each is free to practice their option, the problems start when some consider themselves higher than the other and starts to evangelise that belief on others

That to me, is the net sum of such discussions. Beliefs/faiths are matters of individual preference and cannot be debated through any logic.

 

[firearm12]

Science says everything this universe is made up of few fundamental particles, does that mean that everything is same. One chromosome of a difference decides whether its a male or a female human. Just because everything is made up of just few elements, we cannot consider them as same. Animals are more complex forms of life, and as humans we are most complex of all living beings, the ability to think decide and believe individually is a wonderful gift in itself which gives rise to such discussion.

 

[keith_correa]

OK, so Sin and our ancestors and what they did, believed in and practiced. That is a can of worms that I won't open.

But let me say this:
I recently took an online course conducted by renowned archaeologist, historian and culinary anthropologist, Dr. Kurush Dalal (look him up) and as part of that course, he formed a WhatsApp group of people attending his course. Many people in the group having being educated by the University of WhatsApp started posting about what they learnt of Indian culture, our ancient practices, our eating habits, and how the ancient Indians were pioneers in everything under the Sun and how we discovered everything under the Sun before the evil West took credit, blah, blah... The good Dr. took great delight in puncturing their bubbles by stating facts and references to those facts. Even I was amazed at some of the revelations about our past. Lots of good, lots of crazy stuff. I took great delight too in imagining the group members faces when faced with facts from an expert. I won't disclose details here because I'm sure many of our FM's also believe in that stuff and it is not my place to educate them. But, if you get a chance, speak to historians, speak to archaeologists and get facts instead of the myriad theories floating out there. Your eyes will be truly opened. Mine were!

 

[square_wave]

That to me, is the net sum of such discussions. Beliefs/faiths are matters of individual preference and cannot be debated through any logic.

Agree.

Rigorous study of archeology, history and humanities will easily debunk most of the belief systems that are floating around surrounding almost everything. It is usually ego and childhood brainwashing that is behind a lot of it. If you expand the study to cosmology you will also come to know that the planet itself is so infinitesimal that one wonders how all these arguments can be so relevant. The universe does not punish, it does not judge, it just is ! We all may be a part of a greater wisdom that we will ever understand. If we just become an irritating pest, it will just shake us off and move on. It is only our ego that makes us think that we are the center of the universe.

End of the day, all these arguments will remain relevant only as tools within the realm of human survival. Knowledge is also limited to the technology available to us and limits of our senses and brains. So live and let live as long as we all operate within a framework that helps society survive as well as flourish.

 

[sidvee]

Agree.

Rigorous study of archeology, history and humanities will easily debunk most of the belief systems that are floating around surrounding almost everything. It is usually ego and childhood brainwashing that is behind a lot of it.

You forgot politics square. I read that it has been proven that in Indus Valley Civilization, beef was consumed as food. Mind-blowing considering where we stand on this issue today. I don't believe everything I read on the internet - due to obvious reasons - but I have read this from publications of multiple reputed sources of archeology - which are non-political.

Indus Valley civilisation had meat-heavy diets, preference for beef, reveals study

The research offers insights into the food patterns of ancient South Asia by using lipid residue analysis.

scroll.in

Sorry to the OP for the OT but this thread suddenly seems to have veered to the Veg vs non veg debate which is only slightly less acrimonious than the digital vs analog debates.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[Nitin K]

Without getting into the veg - nonveg debate, one thing I have noticed that there are only few people who value the importance of trees. Trees which takes years to grow are often chopped mindlessly within a few hours. I myself have experienced that in the name of trimming branches even in our society, are hacked thoughtlessly, without paying attention that the branches balance the tree in a particular way. On being questioned, I have been told that there is a possibility of the branches falling on someone or someone's car or sometimes a ludicrous excuse that there are lots of mosquitoes because of trees.
I am not denying the danger of dry branches or trees which have a possibility of causing damage or danger need to be cut. But more often, they are also mindlessly killed by repeated digging of the roads by various utilitiy services close to their roots.

 

[oldmonk]

We can continue to debate over food for a long time but if we stay focussed on the subject matter which was the BBC video on exploitation of local communities ( adivasis ) / land grab for a pittance / reducing thousands of acres of forest rald into Palm oil - for the consumer.

Look around you - everything you consume is artificial and palm oil ( and its camouflaged derivatives ) is everywhere..

Should you wish to - it is quite easy to reduce or eliminate artificial food from your palate - next time you reach out for biscuits or for your shampoo in order to look your stunning best - do give this a thought.

Elimination of artificial food from the diet will lead to better health and if this is construed as preachy - so be it.

The loss of land / destruction of forest resources / cheating of local tibes persons happens all the time and no country is an exception. However virtuous or democratic.

The emotions expressed in the video and the feeling of helplessness and regret cannot be captured in text.

It must be seen to be understood.

In this discussion we have focussed on mainly food - it is no surprise - we see new restaurants and start ups spring up to cater to the consumer. I wont be surprised if most of the startups focus on food or its delivery.

The consumer gets convenience ( at the risk of poor long term health ) , the company makes a ton of money and the original inhabitants are left high and dry with no where to go besides loss of their way of life and our planet loses its forest cover.

There are 3 losers and 1 victor in the above transaction.

We miss the fact that for our convenience someone else is exploited and that isnt humane.

 

[square_wave]

We can continue to debate over food for a long time but if we stay focussed on the subject matter which was the BBC video on exploitation of local communities ( adivasis ) / land grab for a pittance / reducing thousands of acres of forest rald into Palm oil - for the consumer.

Look around you - everything you consume is artificial and palm oil ( and its camouflaged derivatives ) is everywhere..

Should you wish to - it is quite easy to reduce or eliminate artificial food from your palate - next time you reach out for biscuits or for your shampoo in order to look your stunning best - do give this a thought.

Elimination of artificial food from the diet will lead to better health and if this is construed as preachy - so be it.

The loss of land / destruction of forest resources / cheating of local tibes persons happens all the time and no country is an exception. However virtuous or democratic.

The emotions expressed in the video and the feeling of helplessness and regret cannot be captured in text.

It must be seen to be understood.

In this discussion we have focussed on mainly food - it is no surprise - we see new restaurants and start ups spring up to cater to the consumer. I wont be surprised if most of the startups focus on food or its delivery.

The consumer gets convenience ( at the risk of poor long term health ) , the company makes a ton of money and the original inhabitants are left high and dry with no where to go besides loss of their way of life and our planet loses its forest cover.

There are 3 losers and 1 victor in the above transaction.

We miss the fact that for our convenience someone else is exploited and that isnt humane.

Sadly, the focus these days is on power, exploitation and political one-upmanship in most countries. Some countries like the scandinavian ones seem to focus on the right things. Health and welfare of people and the ecosystem should be the primary focus of any nation. One of my cousins recently concluded her Phd in alternative education and her study took her to Scandinavia and involved deep studies into humanities and education systems. The focus areas of these countries is amazing. Politics and bureaucracy is so aligned to the well being of the people and ecosystem that sustains life. They also keep any non-evidence based belief systems out of politics and policies. They are personal and is kept at that level. That is key.

 

[arj]

Ex

We can continue to debate over food for a long time but if we stay focussed on the subject matter which was the BBC video on exploitation of local communities ( adivasis ) / land grab for a pittance / reducing thousands of acres of forest rald into Palm oil - for the consumer.

Look around you - everything you consume is artificial and palm oil ( and its camouflaged derivatives ) is everywhere..

Should you wish to - it is quite easy to reduce or eliminate artificial food from your palate - next time you reach out for biscuits or for your shampoo in order to look your stunning best - do give this a thought.

Elimination of artificial food from the diet will lead to better health and if this is construed as preachy - so be it.

The loss of land / destruction of forest resources / cheating of local tibes persons happens all the time and no country is an exception. However virtuous or democratic.

The emotions expressed in the video and the feeling of helplessness and regret cannot be captured in text.

It must be seen to be understood.

In this discussion we have focussed on mainly food - it is no surprise - we see new restaurants and start ups spring up to cater to the consumer. I wont be surprised if most of the startups focus on food or its delivery.

The consumer gets convenience ( at the risk of poor long term health ) , the company makes a ton of money and the original inhabitants are left high and dry with no where to go besides loss of their way of life and our planet loses its forest cover.

There are 3 losers and 1 victor in the above transaction.

We miss the fact that for our convenience someone else is exploited and that isnt humane.

+1
Michal Crichtons novel NEXT was about a horrific scenario in the future where Genes could be patented and owned by corporates ..which means that parts/sections of ones own body may be under patent laws

..And this is already happening in Agriculture where if a seed "Owned" by the corporate is even replanted, the farmer can be litigated against.
Remember a case in the US where nestle was trying to claim rights to a lake !

Sad part is most of the consumables Food/clothes etc we buy is also not driven by real need but by created demand

All of this because corporates have to show Quarter on Quarter growth to the market ! its all driven by human greed. Stockmarkets going up all the time is perhaps either a Symptom or a Cause of this as well .

 

[moktan]

Agree.

Rigorous study of archeology, history and humanities will easily debunk most of the belief systems that are floating around surrounding almost everything. It is usually ego and childhood brainwashing that is behind a lot of it. If you expand the study to cosmology you will also come to know that the planet itself is so infinitesimal that one wonders how all these arguments can be so relevant. The universe does not punish, it does not judge, it just is ! We all may be a part of a greater wisdom that we will ever understand. If we just become an irritating pest, it will just shake us off and move on. It is only our ego that makes us think that we are the center of the universe.

End of the day, all these arguments will remain relevant only as tools within the realm of human survival. Knowledge is also limited to the technology available to us and limits of our senses and brains. So live and let live as long as we all operate within a framework that helps society survive as well as flourish.

To quote Frank Plumpton Ramsey
“Where I seem to differ from some of my friends is in attaching little importance to physical size. I don’t feel the least humble before the vastness of the heavens. The stars may be large but they cannot think or love; and these are qualities that impress me far more than size does. I take no credit for weighing nearly 17 stone … In time the world will cool and everything will die; but that is a long time off still, and its present value at compound discount is almost nothing. Nor is the present less valuable because the future will be blank.”

 

[Fiftyfifty]

Without going into the ethical or ecological issues being discussed here, I wish to share just a few of my observations:

1. Cruelty in any form, whether to animals or humans, is destructive. Apart from harming others, one is also harming oneself by expressing anger, hurt or some other negative emotion in this manner. If the cruelty is a source of entertainment, there is something even more seriously wrong.

2. Videos on the net, particularly those that go viral, are often fake or presented out of context. As for media, I have never in all my life witnessed a more fervent scramble for TRP and readership. Fake news on social media is common. Opinions expressed by experts, fiery speeches in parliament, clever articles, etc., shape our opinions. I think this calls for great effort in sharpening our skills at filtering out the truth.

3. With so much controversy over just about everything, I believe we all must adopt the discipline of understanding both sides of an issue before forming or expressing our opinion. I have no objection to a Rihana or Sachin or Lata or thePrint editor or, for that matter, my housemaid expressing her/his view, on condition that she/he has read and understood the arguments of both sides.

I hope this is not too much to expect!

 

[Ravikiran 33]

I always wonder lot of people reacting on videos showing animals being killed. But daily there are lakhs of poultry being killed in chicken /mutton shops, restaurants. Why don’t people react and condemn such things .