Interesting viewpoint on expensive spkrs.
- Thread starter sidvee
- Start date
I guess the most important point, is the "Diminishing Returns" prospect. Will buying equipment at double the cost of what you own give you double the sound quality? Beyond that one can buy for various reasons - Snob factor, aesthetics, Cool factor, Chick factor:lol: etc.
Cheers,
Sid
Cheers,
Sid
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Actually I completely disagree, as does the author of the write up. Expensive is really quite relative. If the sound of the more expensive speaker brings me closer to my ideal of hearing recorded sound ( which in my case may be completely different to hearing a live concert), then I am happy to spend the amount it costs to get it. I know a lot of people with very expensive gear (say over 50L - some here in India and many abroad) who really have a true passion for audiophilia and/or music. I just want to point out that it is not as black and white as you make it out to be....and doesn't always deserve such cynicism.
Until the turn of the century, India was mainly a socialist country where no one (except the really rich) could afford anything beyond the basic necessities, and even if you could or wanted something, it wasn't available.
We carry over the socialist mindset and hence the constant need to look for "value for money" and to ask the price of everything. Personally (and this is strictly my personal opinion), I find it as impolite to constantly ask the price of something as I find it impolite to ask someone how much money they make.
I will also add that I am neither "above" this nor am I rich by any standards. And yes, price is a very real and practical consideration. However, there has to be balance. Constantly focusing on price also takes away from the passion and the "soul of the thing".
Passion is illogical by definition. Beyond a point, it makes as much sense to try and determine "bang for the buck", especially "is it 10x value for 10x the price" as it is to assign the true price-tag on a painting, watch, pen, car, knife, book. There is a distinction between a commodity item that one buys because of need, and a specialized item (be it manufactured or a creative work) that one buys because of passionate interest.
When it comes to out and out luxury items such as watches or antique cars, no one talks about how much value for money you are getting (beyond a point - although there are plenty of budget heavy hitters even in that segment). It is sheer pride of ownership, sentimentality, and joy of owning and using something that is exquisitely hand-crafted and well engineered. I think it gets tricky when it comes to audio as construction quality, pride of ownership, aesthetics, technology, form factor, brand name, designer, etc. are all factors besides the fundamental aspects of sound quality and range which in itself is highly subjective.
Anyway, I'm sure I'm not saying anything new. However, I did want to share an interesting documentary about Herb & Dorothy, a postal clerk and librarian, who amassed a 4000 piece art collection through sheer passion and their ability to pick art that everyone else ignored (and was hence affordable).
We carry over the socialist mindset and hence the constant need to look for "value for money" and to ask the price of everything. Personally (and this is strictly my personal opinion), I find it as impolite to constantly ask the price of something as I find it impolite to ask someone how much money they make.
I will also add that I am neither "above" this nor am I rich by any standards. And yes, price is a very real and practical consideration. However, there has to be balance. Constantly focusing on price also takes away from the passion and the "soul of the thing".
Passion is illogical by definition. Beyond a point, it makes as much sense to try and determine "bang for the buck", especially "is it 10x value for 10x the price" as it is to assign the true price-tag on a painting, watch, pen, car, knife, book. There is a distinction between a commodity item that one buys because of need, and a specialized item (be it manufactured or a creative work) that one buys because of passionate interest.
When it comes to out and out luxury items such as watches or antique cars, no one talks about how much value for money you are getting (beyond a point - although there are plenty of budget heavy hitters even in that segment). It is sheer pride of ownership, sentimentality, and joy of owning and using something that is exquisitely hand-crafted and well engineered. I think it gets tricky when it comes to audio as construction quality, pride of ownership, aesthetics, technology, form factor, brand name, designer, etc. are all factors besides the fundamental aspects of sound quality and range which in itself is highly subjective.
Anyway, I'm sure I'm not saying anything new. However, I did want to share an interesting documentary about Herb & Dorothy, a postal clerk and librarian, who amassed a 4000 piece art collection through sheer passion and their ability to pick art that everyone else ignored (and was hence affordable).
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
The guy says that his five-thousand-dollar speakers are enough better to justify the price. He's saying yes, expensive speakers are worthwhile.
Diminishing returns. Fifty years ago, it was hard to afford stereo, let alone hifi. Now, even budget stuff is actually pretty good. That leaves the higher end having to work pretty hard to justify their existence, and buyers of that stuff listening harder and harder for smaller and smaller differences. But that's the audiophile game, isn't it? That's what those who can afford it love to do, and I wish them joy of it and, if I ever get rich, I'll be doing it too
It seems to me that this article asks a question, and gives the expected answer. What if the question had been are silly-money speakers worth it? Because then, I think that the factors mentioned by alpha1 and sidvee come into play more.
Most people only conciously include some of those things in their buying decisions. A lot of people want their stuff to look good as well as sound good, but very few actually want to be snobs but they may be anyway.
Diminishing returns. Fifty years ago, it was hard to afford stereo, let alone hifi. Now, even budget stuff is actually pretty good. That leaves the higher end having to work pretty hard to justify their existence, and buyers of that stuff listening harder and harder for smaller and smaller differences. But that's the audiophile game, isn't it? That's what those who can afford it love to do, and I wish them joy of it and, if I ever get rich, I'll be doing it too
It seems to me that this article asks a question, and gives the expected answer. What if the question had been are silly-money speakers worth it? Because then, I think that the factors mentioned by alpha1 and sidvee come into play more.
Fifty years ago, it was hard to afford stereo, let alone hifi. Now, even budget stuff is actually pretty good. That leaves the higher end having to work pretty hard to justify their existence, and buyers of that stuff listening harder and harder for smaller and smaller differences. But that's the audiophile game, isn't it? That's what those who can afford it love to do, and I wish them joy of it and, if I ever get rich, I'll be doing it too
Thad, I personally think there is enough space for people with different budgets. I don't think the budget capacity adds to, or takes away from the fun and pursuit (of not just equipment but music and knowledge).
What you said about budget stuff being good is also applicable to many other things like cars, bikes, and watches. That hasn't stopped people from being less passionate. In fact, more people are now tinkering with their cars. At least in the US, people have crazy levels of passion for customizing, building, and owning cars - and that is despite availability of super-reliable and super-cheap cars. Plus, it is not even like everyone is building and owning a Ferrari. In fact, most people buy a dirt-cheap "project car" and then slowly work on it over months and years. If we look at the energy and equipment and money spent in fixing the car, it is totally not worth it. Yet, it is still totally worth it.
However, there is an important corollary here. If one can afford it, one should "go for it". I really don't think there is any point in trying to justify why one would spend 5000 dollars on audio equipment vs 500 dollars. One does what one can (or that's how it should be, at least in my head).
I believe that if one has a passion in anything, then they should try and achieve what they are passionate about. Money is secondary - of-course - as long as they can afford it. And I try to apply that to audio. My first system cost $700, now I have cables that cost more, and as pointed out earlier, expensive is a relative term, but this does not dilute the "Law of Diminishing returns". Not sure if my current setup which cost many times more than my $700 setup is giving a commensurate amount of return on SQ. Similarly my recent amp upgrade which cost many multiples of the amp. I had before, got me maybe 10-15% improvement. Regardless I am very happy with my purchases and I know I will face the same "Law" when I do upgrade from my Harbeth Shl5 as well.
But the passion of good sound is alive and well in me
Cheers,
Sid
But the passion of good sound is alive and well in me
Cheers,
Sid
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tirthankar
Active Member
I feel that in audio, like most other hobbies, the ROI is logarithmic. For everyone there's a break even point which for that person is the correct balance of cost and quality at that point.
Also, another thing I feel is that like all fields in life, attaining the average does not require too much extra effort. It's going the last mile, attaining the ultimate level of perfection for that person, which demands significantly higher effort. How far to go depends solely on the passion and desire of that person.
Also, another thing I feel is that like all fields in life, attaining the average does not require too much extra effort. It's going the last mile, attaining the ultimate level of perfection for that person, which demands significantly higher effort. How far to go depends solely on the passion and desire of that person.
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
Absolutely! Perhaps the budget makes the difference between looking for that extra 1% and looking for that extra 0.0001%. It is still the same game, and the same pleasure in listening to music.
Added to which, many of us are fairly content with what we have, whilst admitting that it may not be the ultimate or even close to it. Of course, that doesn't stop us drooling sometimes
heliumflight
Well-Known Member
That's what they say that the grass is always greener on the other side
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