Is McIntosh WORTH THE MONEY?

[OM_2K19]

 

[mail2sumanth]

I never listened to it.. I would like to after seeing lot of applause for there processors and amps all over. And the same with stromaudio processors.

 

[panditji]

They are worth it for the blue VU meters... maybe someday when the NIFTY touches 20,000....

 

[greenhorn]

McIntosh is the Bose of the North American hifi market. People who know a little, but apparently not enough think McIntosh is the last word in high end. When i used to browse through American classifieds, macs were all overpriced, with nothing priced below a few thousand k. On the other hand, a lot of what we would consider absolute flagship stuff would go dirt cheap ( b&w Matrix 801) etc.

Americans patriotism tends to spill over to their choice of hifi brands and even for speakers, they tend to consider their brands the best - JBL, Klipsch, AR, ads, klh, advent, dynaco etc

 

[reubensm]

After having spent some Indian Lakhs myself, and after arriving at several realizations on the way, I can tell you for sure that it is very person-dependent. Yes, brands are powerful and owners have bragging rights but essentially it comes down to what one aspires for, what one listens to and how does one like one's music to sound. There are also people who are obsessed with certain items and get them even though they add little or no value. A Merc and a Maruti can get one from point-a to point-b but thats where the similarity ends. For example, i know of a friend who spent nearly 2 lakhs to import a NAK 1000 ZXL which is essentially a show piece and for him to brag about. No value added as he now has to source good recordings to play on it, after he did, the music on these recordings were not to his linking and the story goes on. And worse still his listening tastes are essentially malayalam and tamil music, the original masters of which are also generally below 'so-called' international standards. But he is delighted with the ownership. I guess its this demography of owner who aids the big brands to a great extent.

 

[drkrack]

McIntosh have a USP of being quite Reliable and long lasting amplifiers, With a typical Warm detailed British tonal characteristics (of course these attributes will change with Room and other components).

During the 70s when a Variety of Speakers were being introduced with many experimental technologies, McIntosh rose to Popularity because of their robust auto former technology (which seems unnecessary with current speaker standards) which Maintained Amp charecter irrespective of how difficult the speaker loads are. That Charecter of being Reliable Amplifiers during that era gave them an edge over others. Over the years they maintained the reputation of being reliable amps with McIntosh Badge value and VU meters and American marketing tactics. They easily last decades in my experience.

Mostly Made in USA, including most of the components unlike many other manufacturers, most of the Amplifiers are serviceable even after a decade (mostly they don't need anything) and its easy to find the Spares.

Sound wise I found them Warm, meaty with slightly Laid back signature. They never sound strained or shouty but PRAT worshippers may not be fully satisfied. Overall Good Quality Amplifiers that are no less than The likes of Accuphase, Gryphon or Luxman.

 

[MaSh]

Those VU meters I am sure make them totally worth it.

MaSh

 

[chander]

I know 2 old men - who are running McIntosh amps they bought when they were young and impulsive . Speakers have come and gone, things around them have changed, but neither will part with the their McIntosh. They call me and my cousins vulture and they know we are waiting . One of them suggested their WILL will ensure that the amps are burnt with them that is high praise.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

I do not own McIntosh but people should not bash a product simply because it is expensive and out of reach for most. I understand if they heard it and did not like it but price should not be a reason to bash a product IMO. They might sound great, perhaps even to you, if you actually heard it.

 

[arj]

McIntosh have a USP of being quite Reliable and long lasting amplifiers, With a typical Warm detailed British tonal characteristics (of course these attributes will change with Room and other components).

During the 70s when a Variety of Speakers were being introduced with many experimental technologies, McIntosh rose to Popularity because of their robust auto former technology (which seems unnecessary with current speaker standards) which Maintained Amp charecter irrespective of how difficult the speaker loads are. That Charecter of being Reliable Amplifiers during that era gave them an edge over others. Over the years they maintained the reputation of being reliable amps with McIntosh Badge value and VU meters and American marketing tactics. They easily last decades in my experience.

Mostly Made in USA, including most of the components unlike many other manufacturers, most of the Amplifiers are serviceable even after a decade (mostly they don't need anything) and its easy to find the Spares.

Sound wise I found them Warm, meaty with slightly Laid back signature. They never sound strained or shouty but PRAT worshippers may not be fully satisfied. Overall Good Quality Amplifiers that are no less than The likes of Accuphase, Gryphon or Luxman.

The old ones ( pre 80s) yes. New ones are not the same.,...

I think way back in the 70s/80s they were really good and pioneered many designs. From the 90s onwards they had several ownership changes and their outlook changed.

Today they achieve their "soft" sound in SS amplifiers by placing an output transformer even for SS amps ! On tube amps, thy run their tubes very hard for more power and hence need to be changed more often. even the iconic 275 was modified

Their TTS are actually made by clearaudio for them

Was very seriously considering the MA252 last year till I was given the feedback its not worth it.

 

[square_wave]

I recently listened to them on some high end sonus faber speakers. They are very decent sounding amplifiers. The dealer is quite friendly and he described the sound as big american sound. Meaty and big but refined. I found the sound to be quite entertaining. The Mac puts entertainment in the front seat instead of sound that is very audiophile-like. May not be last word in inner detail and insight. I guess it is all a matter of taste. Some people like this kinda sound. Each to his own. Not sure about the price to performance equation here because i was not able to try another amp in the same system.

It was quite a contrast to a full audionote system I heard with the same music an hour ago in the same shop. I can clearly see why some audiophiles dont like the Mac sound.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

I recently listened to them on some high end sonus faber speakers. They are very decent sounding amplifiers. The dealer is quite friendly and he described the sound as big american sound. Meaty and big but refined. I found the sound to be quite entertaining. The Mac puts entertainment in the front seat instead of sound that is very audiophile-like. May not be last word in inner detail and insight. I guess it is all a matter of taste. Some people like this kinda sound. Each to his own. Not sure about the price to performance equation here because i was not able to try another amp in the same system.

It was quite a contrast to a full audionote system I heard with the same music an hour ago in the same shop. I can clearly see why some audiophiles dont like the Mac sound.

Can you elaborate between the audionote and the sonus faber/mac system? Also would it be possible to list the exact models?

 

[venkatcr]

I heard the DartZeel amplifier a long time ago amplifying music from both a turntable and from digital sources. That really shook the foundation of what I thought were good amps. The speakers were hand made single driver and multi driver speakers.

Recently, I listened to the McIntosh driving McIntosh speakers. The source was completely digital using a networked Plex server.

The difference? Hard to describe.

McIntosh was full bodied, pushing the music hard into your face. At the same time, it created a huge soundstage and ensured you heard every voice and instrument with clear separation and placement. Clarity is something that came through clearly. The background was black and it ensured you heard even the tiniest of sound.

DartZeel, on the other had, enveloped you in the music. It never pushed anything at you. At the same time, you could visualize the soundstage, the singers and the instruments easily. With familiar numbers, you could literally know what voice or instrument is going to come - where, and when. It made you yearn for the sound and heave a sigh of relief when you did hear it. That is the kind of involvement it forced on you.

Both have their positives. Any Negatives? I am not sure. But both are systems you could live with happily.

Cheers

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

I heard the DartZeel amplifier a long time ago amplifying music from both a turntable and from digital sources. That really shook the foundation of what I thought were good amps. The speakers were hand made single driver and multi driver speakers.

Recently, I listened to the McIntosh driving McIntosh speakers. The source was completely digital using a networked Plex server.

The difference? Hard to describe.

McIntosh was full bodied, pushing the music hard into your face. At the same time, it created a huge soundstage and ensured you heard every voice and instrument with clear separation and placement. Clarity is something that came through clearly. The background was black and it ensured you heard even the tiniest of sound.

DartZeel, on the other had, enveloped you in the music. It never pushed anything at you. At the same time, you could visualize the soundstage, the singers and the instruments easily. With familiar numbers, you could literally know what voice or instrument is going to come - where, and when. It made you yearn for the sound and heave a sigh of relief when you did hear it. That is the kind of involvement it forced on you.

Both have their positives. Any Negatives? I am not sure. But both are systems you could live with happily.

Cheers

OT: I think this is partly why we like music, we know what to expect and when we get what we expect to get then it is rewarding.

 

[panditji]

I do not own McIntosh but people should not bash a product simply because it is expensive and out of reach for most. I understand if they heard it and did not like it but price should not be a reason to bash a product IMO. They might sound great, perhaps even to you, if you actually heard it.

Any reason why you assume we have not heard the McIntosh amps while bashing it's price? I don't think anybody criticised the sound but just the price as VFM could be a criteria for some people. I bash Accuphase too for it's price although I love the sound and it's VU meters...

I don't see any reason why we can't bash a product for it's silly prices.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Any reason why you assume we have not heard the McIntosh amps while bashing it's price? I don't think anybody criticised the sound but just the price as VFM could be a criteria for some people. I bash Accuphase too for it's price although I love the sound and it's VU meters...

I don't see any reason why we can't bash a product for it's silly prices.

You did not mention you have heard it in your post. If you have please let us know and what you thought of it. I never said anybody criticized the sound. Certainly people are price conscious but is it necessary to bash something simply because it is expensive? Perhaps it is a good product, affordability aside. Should we not judge a product on its sound?

What purpose does bashing a product for price alone serve? If you felt it is too expensive you could simply move on.

 

[panditji]

You did not mention you have heard it in your post. If you have please let us know and what you thought of it. I never said anybody criticized the sound. Certainly people are price conscious but is it necessary to bash something simply because it is expensive? Perhaps it is a good product, affordability aside. Should we not judge a product on its sound?

What purpose does bashing a product for price alone serve? If you felt it is too expensive you could simply move on.

The topic we are discussing is " Is McIntosh worth the money" and my comments are in response to the thread at hand. If you felt my price bashing comments were silly, you could have moved on too sir if you take your own advice seriously.. And since you had no clue whether I or anyone else bashing their price had heard any or not, you could have asked instead of assuming the worst possible scenario...

 

[balavignesh002]

McIntosh Amps are Great. Not sure if every manufacturer follow best quality standards in manufacturing process.

I use one 30 and 25 year old McIntosh amps on car, I bought it four years ago and paid more than 40k each..

But the price in India is very high for a new home audio amplifier.

 

[venkatcr]

Some of these manufacturers such as McIntosh, B&W, DartZeel and others spend an enormous amount of money on their design and production facilities. At least in their parent countries, if you buy any of these products, they will be taken care of literally free for life. The manufacturer usually has enormous pride in what he makes. To make sure that pride is justified, they spend quite a lot on R&D, product design, testing, etc. More important, they seem to understand and anticipate the rigors of usage, and build their systems to compensate for wear and tear.

For example, the Rogue Audio owner once said that he tested 27 different designs consisting of hundreds of components for a minor improvement in their pre-amp section. It costed him 2 years and 100s of thousand of dollar. Of course he has to recover the spend and that itself may add 50-100% on his selling costs.

Part of the costs (and thus the selling price) comes from this attitude towards research, design, and some of the best quality control in the world. They have detailed information on each product, who assembled it, where the components came from, BOM, batch details, the solder they used etc. This allows them to have extraordinary control over the manufacturing and quality control process.

I was quite impressed by a similar attitude from Samsung. I have a monitor of theirs that is slowly fading away. One look at the serial number, and the service engineer knew where I bought it and when. He gave what I though was the best advice in terms of repair vs replace. Most of the washing machines from such companies come with a 10 year warranty on their motors. Such features are neither cheap nor easy to deliver year upon year.

Compare this with my wonderful experience with Onkyo. Their local rep asked me to get lost, and their Japan HO also asked me to get lost. I finally had to carry it personally to Dubai and get it repaired by an Indian there.

In spite of the high price, these product sell well and are meant for a set of people who can afford them and do not want to regret or worry about their purchase. The manufacturer, in turn, does not worry about competition as he has solid control on the market and his clientele.

If I have to pay 50-100% more for a product that gives me peace of mind, I will. Of course there are others with different mindsets.

Cheers

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

The topic we are discussing is " Is McIntosh worth the money" and my comments are in response to the thread at hand. If you felt my price bashing comments were silly, you could have moved on too sir if you take your own advice seriously.. And since you had no clue whether I or anyone else bashing their price had heard any or not, you could have asked instead of assuming the worst possible scenario...

Yes, and whether a product is worth the money depends on the merit of the product and the budget of the prospective buyer. Without mentioning if you have heard the product bashing it simply on price is in bad taste IMO. I certainly understand if you feel the product does not sound good to you and hence is not worth the money. I have asked if you have heard it in my previous post. Please do let us know if you have heard it and your thoughts on it's sound. That would be far more productive to the thread than simply saying it is too expensive.