Is Ripping CDs in India legal?

[Hiten]

This is where the legal fun starts I may be wrong but some media people can explain...

This right is in the form of a written or unwritten agreement that you automatically agree to when you buy the music.

I don't think media companies call that 'right' to play music, they call it licensing this way they have more power over the content of the media. Out of number of title they release only few sell over million (or whatever) copies so they adjust it with other titles and make profit. This speaks for itself for their so called one sided written/unwritten agreement where buyer does not have consumer right of satisfaction of the content or the product.

the artist gives you the right to play the music for you yourself.

What about family members ? Can't they listen to music bought by a family head ?

When you give a copy to anyone else, you are breaking the agreement with the artist who has given you the right. It does not matter how you give a 'copy' to the other person.

What if one keeps the copied media himself and sells/lends the original media to a friend ? He has bought the original media and has 'legal' right to make a copy of it for personal use.

At the same time, if you sell the music to the other person, you are transferring the rights given to you to the buyer and that is completely legal.

So in a way greedy media companies has made enough profit considering this ^fact or their product would be copied so there would less people buying his/her CD by this. So one should say that CDs are overpriced. (Which leads to illegal copying ).

BTW that's why vinyl people say listen to vinyls. They can't be copied and sounds better hyeah:

 

[frnd08]

This is where the legal fun starts I may be wrong but some media people can explain...


I don't think media companies call that 'right' to play music, they call it licensing this way they have more power over the content of the media. Out of number of title they release only few sell over million (or whatever) copies so they adjust it with other titles and make profit. This speaks for itself for their so called one sided written/unwritten agreement where buyer does not have consumer right of satisfaction of the content or the product.

What about family members ? Can't they listen to music bought by a family head ?


What if one keeps the copied media himself and sells/lends the original media to a friend ? He has bought the original media and has 'legal' right to make a copy of it for personal use.

So in a way greedy media companies has made enough profit considering this ^fact or their product would be copied so there would less people buying his/her CD by this. So one should say that CDs are overpriced. (Which leads to illegal copying ).

BTW that's why vinyl people say listen to vinyls. They can't be copied and sounds better hyeah:

from what little i understand of this complicated law and from venkatcr's comments is this: (please correct me if i'm wrong)

1. if i buy a CD, its MY property.

2. i can do anything i want with the CD (ripping and copying to mobiles included) as long as i'm not giving it to anyone else.

3. i cant lend/sell/donate it to anyone else.

 

[sbg]

I've not read these all - but hope this is relevant to this thread.

The Copyright (Amendment) Bill 2010 Summary - India Policy Wiki


http://www.cis-india.org/advocacy/ipr/upload/amended-copyright-act

I Just HOPE I am not voilating any copyrights by "LINKING" the aforesaid docs/published references.


Moderators - your call.

 

[gobble]

Ganja is legal for Sadhus in India. I guess as long as you wear long dreadlocks and a loincloth and smear yourself in ash, no Law Enforcement personnel will stop you as you walk down the street, and ask what you have in your ipod and headset and if it is legal ... just don't get caught handing out your iPod to somebody else ... that would count as an International Copyright Infringement and the SEALs might swoop down in a Black Hawk ...

PS: While being in possession of ripped material is kinda cool, getting caught in the act of ripping can result in complications, and maybe as embarrassing as ... umm getting caught m@sturb@ting!

You will have a lot of explaining to do .. to the police ... to your parents ... friends, mates, colleagues ... your spouse ... esp if the policeman is tailed by a camera wielding Jurno .. hyeah:

Picture the look on your face that instant ... splashed on the front pages ... hyeah:

--G0bble

 

[venkatcr]

What about family members ? Can't they listen to music bought by a family head ?

Theoretically no. Only the person who paid for the music has a right. But as I said, the laws just looks at ownership by the physical presence of the media. Whoever is holding the media has the license to use it.

What if one keeps the copied media himself and sells/lends the original media to a friend ? He has bought the original media and has 'legal' right to make a copy of it for personal use.

When you sell the original media, you also transfer all rights or licences to the buyer, and you don't have them any more. Legally you should destroy all copies.

BTW that's why vinyl people say listen to vinyls. They can't be copied and sounds better hyeah:

Not any more, You have TTs with USB output and you can happily copy vinyls also.

Cheers

 

[Hiten]

Theoretically no.

I doubt it. Any copyright/licensing lawyers in the forum ?

When you sell the original media,

But one can lend it.

Not any more, You have TTs with USB output and you can happily copy vinyls also.

No that person will not be happy at all with quality. Unlike digital content which can exactly copied bit to bit.

 

[venkatcr]

But one can lend it.

You cannot lend a copyrighted material. It is clear infringement of the owners rights.

Cheers

 

[askii2]

When you buy a CD you buy the CD physical media (plastic disc) and purchase a license to individual use. Since you buy the physical media you can do whatever you want to do with it, but the license isn't bought so there are restrictions on it's use.

Most common practice is to structure the license to allow following uses as "individual use"
1. Let family members or friends listen to it.
2. Lending to personal contacts without business intentions. Note that this means you physically lend the CD to them. They do not receive a license to copy it. They can listen to it.
3. Copy it to other mediums owned by you for the sole purpose of backup in case the media is damaged. Note that you have the onus of protecting this copy against unauthorized use.
4. Copy it to mobile phones or media players.

Preventing copying among friends is next to impossible. Trying to catch people giving a disc to a friend causes several problems such as the enforcing company appears to be bullying a person who looks like an innocent victim with genuine intentions.

Copyright owners typically only go for enforcements against mass distribution like websites that allow music to be downloaded.

Laws allow companies to enforce whatever licensing they want to, provided a copy of the license is provided along with the media. An unethical practice is being followed by music labels all over the world that they do not provide a paper copy of the license along with audio CDs.

 

[cmsajith]

Theoretically no. Only the person who paid for the music has a right. But as I said, the laws just looks at ownership by the physical presence of the media. Whoever is holding the media has the license to use it.



When you sell the original media, you also transfer all rights or licences to the buyer, and you don't have them any more. Legally you should destroy all copies.



Not any more, You have TTs with USB output and you can happily copy vinyls also.

Cheers

I dont think re-selling of the CDs by the consumer is allowed. And it will not transfer the copyright also. If it is allowed, then what about mutually selling the CDs for Rs1 or even for less!!! Everyone has to buy only 1 CD and can mutually sell. Also if the CD is damaged or misplaced, how can somebody prove the ownership? People can say the mutually sold goods were misplaced...

 

[just4kix]

^^. I think the same rule applies for video also. You can rip a dvd for your own use, provided you are the soul owner of the dvd.

Actually no according to MPAA and others. You cannot even rip/duplicate for personal use. But that is not stopping anyone.

 

[just4kix]

I had started a topic a while ago on the same subject: http://www.hifivision.com/general-lounge/10630-ip-piracy.html

The topic of ripping/copying/duplicating/lending is very fuzzy because the user community applies the moral aspects to the issue. India may or may not have the laws but other countries do. The countries that have laws have more or less similar inferences:

1. When you buy a CD/DVD/BD or any form of recorded media, you get the usage rights. You can listen/watch the content as many times as you like.
2. Watching/listening rights are for private use. Private means home usage. The law does not state that only the purchaser can be the sole audience - law does not state who the audience is at home as long as usage is at home.
3. The material is copyrighted. You cannot rip/duplicate/copy it by any manner - even for private use.
4. Law is unclear on lending - but a judge can take a view of lending a book. When you lend a book, you are temporarily deprived of its possesssion. Same may(?) be applicable for analogue/digital media as well.
5. Our moderator, psychotropic, thinks that copying/downloading is not a theft - but as per the laws it is.

We can certainly agree to agree/disagree with one or many or all of the above but that is how the law is written.

 

[frnd08]

[*]The material is copyrighted. You cannot rip/duplicate/copy it by any manner - even for private use.

this is only the case in the UK (law already being amended there to undo this, as far as i know) and in very few states in the US.

Ripping for private use in nearly all parts of the world is legal. Now I'm not sure about Indian laws regarding this and thats why this thread.

Another thing is, in the US (few states) and the UK, making ripping illegal can be justified (although completely banning doesnt make much sense) on the grounds that itunes and amazon offer digital downloads. In India, thats an impossiblity, we dont have proper digital downloads. So basically what we are stuck with is ripping CDs to have digital versions of the tracks.

Talking only about audio CDs though, not video.

 

[venkatcr]

[*]Our moderator, psychotropic, thinks that copying/downloading is not a theft - but as per the laws it is.
[/LIST] We can certainly agree to agree/disagree with one or many or all of the above but that is how the law is written.

I am sorry, but we have never said downloading is legal. HFV and I have always been maintaining that downloading is illegal and we actually do not encourage any discussion on that. Where did you the idea that any of us have said downloading is legal?

What I have said is that of you buy a CD/DVD/Blu-Ray etc., you can make copies for your own personal use. Not even of other members of your house. Only the person who has paid for the CD/DVD/Blu-Ray.

At the same time, if you show me an Indian law point that says it is illegal, it is illegal. There are no ways about that.

Cheers

 

[just4kix]

this is only the case in the UK (law already being amended there to undo this, as far as i know) and in very few states in the US.

Ripping for private use in nearly all parts of the world is legal. Now I'm not sure about Indian laws regarding this and thats why this thread.

Another thing is, in the US (few states) and the UK, making ripping illegal can be justified (although completely banning doesnt make much sense) on the grounds that itunes and amazon offer digital downloads. In India, thats an impossiblity, we dont have proper digital downloads. So basically what we are stuck with is ripping CDs to have digital versions of the tracks.

Talking only about audio CDs though, not video.

Not correct at all. Ripping is illegal in US, EU countries, Aus/NZ, Japan, and all countries that have implemented IP protection laws. You are interpreting the law in the moral sense. You are saying what ought to be the law. And I agree with you. But the law states that you cannot rip/duplicate/etc. It is illegal to circumvent/remove content protection schemes. All CDs/DVDs/BDs say this. I am not saying that I agree. But that is what the law is.

Digital Copies are altogether a different matter. They are legally offered by the studios. They are meant to be played on one and only one device. They incorporate digital rights management.

I am sorry, but we have never said downloading is legal. HFV and I have always been maintaining that downloading is illegal and we actually do not encourage any discussion on that. Where did you the idea that any of us have said downloading is legal?

What I have said is that of you buy a CD/DVD/Blu-Ray etc., you can make copies for your own personal use. Not even of other members of your house. Only the person who has paid for the CD/DVD/Blu-Ray.

At the same time, if you show me an Indian law point that says it is illegal, it is illegal. There are no ways about that.

Cheers

Oh Venkat! I have no arguments and that topic is closed. I agree that no one said that downloading is legal. I also do not harbour that thought. There was just a difference of opinion on the definition of IP theft. A few members said that downloading/uploading digital content, though illegal, does not amount to theft. All I am saying is that laws in the above mentioned countries do not agree with this opinion.

Cheers to everyone.

p/s. Please read my post in neutral tone.

 

[frnd08]

Digital Copies are altogether a different matter. They are legally offered by the studios. They are meant to be played on one and only one device. They incorporate digital rights management.

not any more, itunes, amazon, 7 digital are all DRM free now. meant to be played on as many devices as you want. even our very own hungama.com has DRM free music. ( http://www.hungama.com/faqs.php )

and here's a reference link to what I said:

"On the whole, it is legal for an individual in the United States to make a copy of media he/she owns for his/her own personal use. For instance, making a copy of a personally-owned audio CD for transfer to an MP3 player for that person's personal use would be legal"

In Australia[9] and New Zealand[10] a copy of any legally purchased music may be made by its owner, as long as it is not distributed to others and its use remains personal.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripping#United_States

 

[just4kix]

Well. Wikipedia is not always the truest source. But in this case, if you read the next lines ...

In the case where media contents are protected using some effective copy protection scheme, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act makes it illegal to manufacture or distribute circumvention tools and use those tools for non-fair use purposes. In the case RealNetworks v. DVD CCA, the final injunction reads, "while it may well be fair use for an individual consumer to store a backup copy of a personally owned DVD on that individual's computer, a federal law has nonetheless made it illegal to manufacture or traffic in a device or tool that permits a consumer to make such copies." This case made clear that manufacturing and distribution of circumvention tools was illegal, but fair use of those tools was not.

The way the matters stand is ... it is Ok to make a copy but we cannot break the copy protection. But without breaking copy protection, it is not possible to make a copy (even rip).

Once again, I am not saying that I agree with the law. In fact, I do not. My take is that ripping/copying/duplicating for personal use should be perfectly legal. In fact, a few of my DVDs have gone bad - the typical problem of layer change - the DVD gets stuck after playing 50-70% or so. So by law, I am supposed to purchase another copy of the movie. This sucks.

 

[shershah]

In fact, a few of my DVDs have gone bad - the typical problem of layer change - the DVD gets stuck after playing 50-70% or so. So by law, I am supposed to purchase another copy of the movie.

NO! - sue the beggars - make them pay - for the "non-lasting- DVD" - else, send the defective DVD in and demand a "good" replacement -

i just went out - after reading the first few posts - and bought 3 copies of "Bollywood Hits" (audio CD) - one for me, one for wife (head of family) and one for son (subordinate head) - using wife's money (the money was not offered to tax - hence "illegal" - black) - i did not ask for a bill - was not offered one - and last month my (kind) uncle allowed me the use of his BMW - which had lots of music that i listened to over a few days - i liked three of the cds - and i have taken them into my house - ajay124 has sent me around 15 cds - and i will be sending him laphroaig as thanks (the scotch was paid for by brother)-

dunno if any body should be wasting anytime - thinking about these things - unless one is completely jobless - and does not even have to put isthri for own shirt/skirt/pant

 

[just4kix]

How? DVDs were purchased some time ago in stores or ordered online. Who will give replacement? Stores? Studio?

 

[shershah]

How? DVDs were purchased some time ago in stores or ordered online. Who will give replacement? Stores? Studio?

the guys who actually produced them DVDs - and if the DVDs were outsourced for mass production to some hell-hole in china - well, then the copyright owners

nobody is going to give you a replacement unless you file a suit!

 

[frnd08]

Well. Wikipedia is not always the truest source. But in this case, if you read the next lines ...



The way the matters stand is ... it is Ok to make a copy but we cannot break the copy protection. But without breaking copy protection, it is not possible to make a copy (even rip).

Once again, I am not saying that I agree with the law. In fact, I do not. My take is that ripping/copying/duplicating for personal use should be perfectly legal. In fact, a few of my DVDs have gone bad - the typical problem of layer change - the DVD gets stuck after playing 50-70% or so. So by law, I am supposed to purchase another copy of the movie. This sucks.

actually not all CDs are copy protected. Copy protected CDs, I have a few of those (eg. Keith Urban's Be Here album, EMI, is copy protected), have a special "Copy Control"/"Write Protected" logo on them, they have a data file (most commonly a .exe file which includes a DRM software which enables you to play the tracks on the CD, and as u can imagine copy controlled CDs dont behave particularly well with ordinary CD players). those are the ones which arent supposed to be ripped. (there are millions of images of those CDs, just google. the ones without those (most CDs) can be.

here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy_Control (the logo is also included in the wikipedia article)