Kishore VS Rafi

[Deleted member 79865]

His Excellency Sir Himesh Reshmia !!! Great suggestion, let us dedicate a golden thread just for Sir Himesh-ji, our forum will be honored !!

I would also like to suggest one more great great artist of yesteryears : Sir Altaf Raja .

SuhasG ...Are you Suhas Ganpule..I think you are..right?

 

[Deleted member 15865]

Such an interesting discussion. I agree with Suhas’s view that we can have fruitful discussions and debates on subjective choices too, as long as we listen to others and respect their views too.

Speaking for myself, I have, for a long time since my early youth, preferred Asha and Kishore over Lata and Rafi. But over the last few years, as my listening gear has improved significantly and listening has become more intent, I have begun to appreciate the latter pair and realise their greatness. Not that I love Asha and Kishore any less now than then. Here’s how I differentiate (appreciatively) the two pairs (not to be confused with duets):

- Asha and Kishore are what I’d call ‘performing singers’. Of course Asha hasn’t acted in more than one film, but any of her interviews or in reality shows one can see she is a ‘born performer’. Kishore’s performance needs no introduction. When these two sing, one feels they are actually living that song. And that connects with many of us. It doesn’t matter if they have their flaws and limitations as singers, we still love them. We aren’t just experiencing the singing, but also the personalities of the two performers.

- Lata and Rafi on the other hand, are right there at the peak of what could be called ‘playback competency’. When you listen to their songs, you don’t see Lata or Rafi... they just dissolve. No wonder they sung for such a wide range of leading actors across eras, especially Lata. These two are more classical singers. Not to confuse with Hindustani classical, though they have a base in it... here I mean they ‘think through’ the song and ensure that they ‘technically’ are flawless - with their sur and laya. Of course they aren’t limited to this, but also emote and emote well. But on pure emotionality, Asha and Kishore would score over them, in general.

To summarise, I can listen to Rafi/Lata any time, just as I can listen to Hindustani classical any time. It’s the purity of their singing that transcends everything else, including time and mood. I would listen to Asha and Kishore especially when I am in the mood for their songs (Asha is largely one mood, Kishore has two, but I prefer his melancholic mood). All of them were and are true gems. And will remain so - as long as Hindi film songs are heard anywhere, any time.

 

[Nitin K]

Hi,

In another thread thevortex made the following comments that prompetd me to start this thread:

"Rafi - while a brilliant and peerless practitioner of classical music - was quite limited in terms of the genres of music he could deliver"​

Kishore Kumar - not classically trained he very well might be - could deliver on any type of song. The classical to the maudlin, the raunchy to the romantic, loving to the lonely. He was a singer for every mood. In a word he was far more versatile than any other singer of his age.​

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Which is why I rate Kishore higher than Rafi.​

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Somebody who did not know the fact that Kishore was not classically trained could hear 'Tum Bin Jaaoon Kahaan' or 'Mere Naina' and return back with the impression that they heard a fantastic classical singer in action.​

Sir,

Kishore was a multi faceted personality, not a master of one art. I personally feel it is unfair to compare him with people who specialized in only singing, acting or composing. We should not be comparing apples with oranges, but if we are, here are the facts.

I have a feeling that you are going by the 'image' and are not consciously listening for Rafi's voice in all kinds of songs. If you do so, you would realize that Rafi was significantly more versatile than most of the other male singers, including Kishore. Here are some examples:

• You have already accepted that Rafi was better at Hindustani classical
• Rafi was better at Rock and Jazz - Listen to any of Shammi Kapoor songs, irrespective of who the composer was. I remember just two Kishore songs on Shammi ji, which are not mentionable in the same breath as the real Shammi songs.
• Rafi was better than Kishore on qawwalis. Let us not talk about the real stuff like Rafi's "Yeh Ishq Ishq Hai". Just consider the fact that Rafi was called to sing all of Rishi Kapoor's qawwalis, even though Kishore sang his 'regular' songs. Try "Parda hai parda", "Ham kisi se kam nahin".
• Rafi was better than Kishore on sad songs. Listen to songs from 'Pyasa', such as 'Tang a chuke hain kashmakashe zindagi se ham'
• Rafi was better than Kishore even on fun songs. Listen to any of his gems for comedians like Johnny Walker and Mahmood. He always sang the way the actor spoke. It is quite difficult to believe that we have the same singer singing for Guru Dutt and Johnny Walker in 'Pyasa'.

Rafi even provided playback for Kishore on screen!

Kishore was a voice, better suited for the male lead characters of the 70's and 80s action movies, as the men got more macho, and would appear odd with all those details in their singing. Kishore was the voice of a normal (sometimes angry) man, not expected to sing in real life. What also worked well was his chemistry with the Burmans, but even they kept calling Rafi for the difficult numbers, even though age had started showing in Rafi's voice.

Both Kishore and Rafi sang 'Tum Bin Jaaoon Kahaan'. Rafi sang two versions of it. The records include Kishore's sad version and Rafi's fast version at a faster pace. Any guesses about who's version was finally used for the 'hero'

Finally, about 'Mere Naina'. I heard this conversation between RD Burman, Asha and Gulzar on radio every morning in 1988/89. They mentioned that Kishore was sure that he could not sing this song, and refused to do so. RD did not give up. He knew that Kishore was a great mimic, so they got Lata to sing that song and handed the tapes over to Kishore. He practiced and sang it well. I miss Kishore's singing the most when I hear his clones singing 30% of what he did. Kishore sang in a full throated real voice. This song is a good example.

Both the great legends are supreme in their own right hence cannot be compared. It boils down to one's personal preference which is subjective & not the final or better choice.