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LED TV war 42LH90QR (LG) vs UA40B6000 (Samsung)

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BLASTO

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Hi Guys,

Had been waiting so long for the LED TVs to come to sane pricing levels so that I can plunge in.. :D Looks like the time has arrived. :yahoo:

Caught hold of a friend who has contacts with a local store and went to the store after hours and had an extensive view of the machines.. The store guy is friendly and provided with demo materials & allowed to play our disk also.. :clapping:


The TVs in question.

42" LG LED - 67k

40" Sammy LED - 87k

Now for the observations.


LG Observations.

Pros:

Wowwy PQ when compared to LCDs.. :yahoo:

Bluetooth - Has BT A2DB Sterio, BT Pic Viewing, BT MP3 Streaming (?!?!) (Did not have equipment to test any)

USB 2.0 Movie Playback from external HDD.. (That is something). Played 90% of movies/tv serials from my seagate 320GB disk.

200 Hz scanning (Now is it mispelt 100Hz?? i never knew such thing existed few days ago)

Local dimming shows! Blacks are really BLACK (full stop)

2,000,000 : 1 contrast ratio (?!?!? Though the PQ IS great, These guys are going crazy with numbers)

Cons:

This thing is FAT for a LED TV!! But for the Huge label reading "LED", I would have considered it as another LCD. Absolutely no size/weight advantage of LEDs. Specs show, it is heavier than LG JAZZ LCD!!

I observed that, in HD, This panel is brighter than the Sammy (flat settings), 3D effect is there but defenitely sammy is better. Both the LEDs have far better PQ than LCDs. (Did not compare with LCDs other than LG&Sammy).

HD content needs to be played from a HD DVD player.. :mad:

Sound feels like coming from a old solidaire TV.. :eek: :mad:

The angled view (Which IPS is famous for) is little less when comparing this LG LCDs. But definety not to worry, Iam talking about >150" which no one sees in real life..


Sammy..

Pros:

Exteremely ~~THIN~~ I mean wafer thin.. I fear if it will fly away during the monsoon.. :D

Design is to die for!! Look from the sides and you'll see only the stand.. :D

Looks gorgeous even when switched off! That is saying a lot.

SHARP Pictures.. Razor sharp is the word!! Not a single pixel deviation to untrained eyes.

3D POP is there and it is not an illusion. (Background is very well sperated from the foreground possibly by some post processing. it is like depth of image in digital camera if you know..) IMO, Defenitely LED backlighting is not the only reason for it. It must have got a wonderful 3D engine which they do not put in normal LCDs. It is better than LG.

5 KG lighter than LG (~15 vs ~20kg)

Cons:

No local dimming. Blacks are still grey if you notice hard. Can live with it.

No BT

100 Hz vs 200 Hz of LG (Did not notice as there weren't any "so much" fast moving demos.

Err Sound.. :mad: It is so thin and it must have been hard to fit in a decent speaker there.. Still Better than LG by a small margin.. Other LCDs (like Jazz) win hands down.


Other comparisons:

When in SD mode, there is little to no difference in PQ between the two. There is this pop and blacker blacks and more contrast which are noticably different from the normal LCDs. But if SD content is what we watch daily (which is the case), Samsung felt exteremely over priced. LG is still better.

Dark scenes with candle light (A demo DVD for plasma actually) is better than normal LCDs but falls short (by quite a huge margin) when compared to plasma. Even a very basic plasma which is just 40k played it well..

This is generic to all 16:9 TVs. Both played SD content well in 16:9. I think I don't have to watch them with the black side bars.


Questions at the end: (For you guys)

1) Why is there still a 20k difference in pricing?
2) I can get a LG 47" LED for a 77k. Given that who will be interested in Sammy?
3) Should I have a more closer look at plasmas? Till now, I was not even considering them as knowledge from internet tells me that they eat electricity, produce heat and have burn in (Meaning I cannot watch SD content with side bars).

The store guy's version tells me that they sell plasmas to only budget concious buyers (Buyers who will turn their backs after the LCD demo). And that he genuinely feels that LCDs are better. Only the plasma TV demo DVDs show plasmas as better but the probablity of encountering such scenes in real life is less and when we encounter, we might not even notice. Also, the LG LEDs are real VFM and he would not buy the samsung with even the reduced price.

What will I buy if given only the above two as choice.

IMO, The sammy has some features missing and slightly better PQ of HD. SD PQ is almost the same except for a bit of sharpness. Very very thin and beautiful but 25% costlier. It is 40" compared to 42" of LG.

Weighing the above I'd definetely go for the LG.

I would also have a second look at the plasma (dont remember.. LG model.. PQ30 I think) more carefully before deciding anything. It is 27k cheaper than the cheapest LED and has comparable picture quality and features..

Thanks.
 

zboy123

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This thing is FAT for a LED TV!! But for the Huge label reading "LED", I would have considered it as another LCD. Absolutely no size/weight advantage of LEDs. Specs show, it is heavier than LG JAZZ LCD!!

I my understanding, this has to be fat since it's fully backlit LED unlike Samsung which is only edge lit by LED's. Am I right guys?

Sound quality on non jazz LG's suck but you can calibrate it to sound a lot better. Was SRSsurround on? That can bring about a very beaming audio and sound uncomfortable. Adjust clearvoice setting. Anyhow if you gonna plug-in your home-theater, it won't be an issue. Although once calibrated sound won't suck that bad but yes they won't rival it's competitors imo.

USB 2.0 movie playback is indeed great. As for inability to play HD content over USB. Are you sure about this? Or is this just missing in the Indian version? It does that in my Scarlet 2.0 which might be lower end compared to LH90. I will recheck this and get back to you.
 

BLASTO

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USB 2.0 movie playback is indeed great. As for inability to play HD content over USB. Are you sure about this? Or is this just missing in the Indian version? It does that in my Scarlet 2.0 which might be lower end compared to LH90. I will recheck this and get back to you.

I had a few movie files both 720 and 1080 in MKV formats. These files were not even displayed in the menu. Also very few of the divx files were also not displayed. :sad:

It did play all the files displayed correctly. No sound sync issues or lags what so ever.

I also noticed something strange. In one of the TV series, My 16:9 laptop always displayed/displays a black top and bottom bars with vlc player. Thought the video was recorded with the bars (Not sure). But surprisingly these bars were gone in the TV demo.. Any comments?
 

BLASTO

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It does that in my Scarlet 2.0 which might be lower end compared to LH90.

What made you to buy the Scarlet 2.0 when you could have opted the LH90 in almost the same price? Your buying decision could help others aswell.
 

zboy123

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What made you to buy the Scarlet 2.0 when you could have opted the LH90 in almost the same price? Your buying decision could help others aswell.

I had a chance to look at 47LH90@Jumbo Electronics Gurgaon and was really impressed a great deal by it. I would have got it if I could however, in Kanpur where I was to get this for my parents this wasn't available. They said they could only get it after Diwali and that too for a whopping 80K while Delhi prices are 62-65K. I ended up getting Scarlet 2.0.

I have a Sammy 550 and I like it though but not that much to recommend it against LH90. I recommend LH90 for the price it's being offered.

I had a few movie files both 720 and 1080 in MKV formats. These files were not even displayed in the menu. Also very few of the divx files were also not displayed.

It did play all the files displayed correctly. No sound sync issues or lags what so ever.

I didn't play around with USB much but it mostly worked flawlessly for me. However, it couldn't play images from my iPhone and and sony digicam. Not sure what was the issue there. I read that the TV lacks some DTS codecs so one might not be able to play audio in some mkv's and might need to re-rip it or something.

I also noticed something strange. In one of the TV series, My 16:9 laptop always displayed/displays a black top and bottom bars with vlc player. Thought the video was recorded with the bars (Not sure). But surprisingly these bars were gone in the TV demo.. Any comments?

What was the aspect ratio in the TV at the time. I noticed that while playing certain movies I could see black bars in 16:9 aspect ratio TV setting. So I thought these files might be 21:9 hence the bars. However, if you change change settings to 16:9 zoom, the bars in the TV disappeared. Just make sure the aspect ratio is same in both the TV and VLC media player.
 
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jetak_k

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Questions at the end: (For you guys)

1) Why is there still a 20k difference in pricing?
2) I can get a LG 47" LED for a 77k. Given that who will be interested in Sammy?
3) Should I have a more closer look at plasmas? Till now, I was not even considering them as knowledge from internet tells me that they eat electricity, produce heat and have burn in (Meaning I cannot watch SD content with side bars).

The store guy's version tells me that they sell plasmas to only budget concious buyers (Buyers who will turn their backs after the LCD demo). And that he genuinely feels that LCDs are better. Only the plasma TV demo DVDs show plasmas as better but the probablity of encountering such scenes in real life is less and when we encounter, we might not even notice. Also, the LG LEDs are real VFM and he would not buy the samsung with even the reduced price.

What will I buy if given only the above two as choice.

IMO, The sammy has some features missing and slightly better PQ of HD. SD PQ is almost the same except for a bit of sharpness. Very very thin and beautiful but 25% costlier. It is 40" compared to 42" of LG.

Weighing the above I'd definetely go for the LG.

I would also have a second look at the plasma (dont remember.. LG model.. PQ30 I think) more carefully before deciding anything. It is 27k cheaper than the cheapest LED and has comparable picture quality and features..

Thanks.

This is not so much of a war really.
I think, you yourself have an answer in your question.

Just go and buy the LG LH90.

Based on PQ and value for money LH90 is way ahead of B6000. (Except for the thickness - yes 6000 looks very good that way. )

In general, backlit LED tvs will provide better picture quality than edge lit ones.

Have a look at the reviews and user opinions on cnet, avsforum and http://www.highdefjunkies.com/.

Also, this years HDTV shootout, LH90 was very highly rated.

There is a better tv from Samsung now ( 8500 ), but that is not yet released in India. (and I believe the pricing is going to be 'vulgar' ).

PS:- I recently bought a 47LH90 after going through same set confusions for 3 months. And I am very happy with my decision.
 

abhifusion

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PS:- I recently bought a 47LH90 after going through same set confusions for 3 months. And I am very happy with my decision.

Is LH90 available freely there?? I have booked 47lh90 since 15 days , and the dealer is saying thr is shotrage of this TV coz less panels are dispatched from korea , so it might take another month !! :mad:

I was quoted 82k for the set , how much did you get it for ??
 

psychotropic

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local dimming LED backlit tvs have some serious disadvantages, off axis pictures are poor, even being slightly off-axis shows a noticeable drop in contrast and colour saturation. There is also the blooming that occurs due to the local dimming, because there are 96 LEDs and 1080 pixels, so a precise dimming for the dark area is impossible.

Why don't you just go for a plasma? The LCD guys are trying all sorts of tricks to match up to the picture quality of plasma and failing, why pay extra for all these pyrotechnics, when you can get perfect natural pictures with a plasma? with the only disadvantages being power consumption, brightness levels and temporary image retention?

If you can control the lighting in your room, brightness is not an issue, TIR is just not an issue in practical terms.....so unless you're really stingy about power, there's no reason to go for an LCD (whether CCFL backlit or LED backlit)
 

jetak_k

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local dimming LED backlit tvs have some serious disadvantages, off axis pictures are poor, even being slightly off-axis shows a noticeable drop in contrast and colour saturation. There is also the blooming that occurs due to the local dimming, because there are 96 LEDs and 1080 pixels, so a precise dimming for the dark area is impossible.

Confused with this. What is the source of this information?
While in general LCDs have off axis viewing problem, the LED backlit TVs do better in off axis viewing than normal LCD tvs.

Why don't you just go for a plasma? The LCD guys are trying all sorts of tricks to match up to the picture quality of plasma and failing, why pay extra for all these pyrotechnics, when you can get perfect natural pictures with a plasma? with the only disadvantages being power consumption, brightness levels and temporary image retention?

Agree with this.
But then, a good Plasma tv like panasonic 42PV10 will cost more than a lakh.

[/QUOTE]

If you can control the lighting in your room, brightness is not an issue, TIR is just not an issue in practical terms.....so unless you're really stingy about power, there's no reason to go for an LCD (whether CCFL backlit or LED backlit)[/QUOTE]
 

psychotropic

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Confused with this. What is the source of this information?
While in general LCDs have off axis viewing problem, the LED backlit TVs do better in off axis viewing than normal LCD tvs.


The following are from CNET's review of the LH90 available here:

"It does suffer from poor off-angle performance and some blooming--issues common to all LED-based LCDs we've tested--but if you sit in the sweet spot the LH90 looks great."

"The biggest challenge of LED backlit (and edge-lit) technology we've noticed so far is poor black levels and color fidelity when seen from off-angle, and the LH90 was no exception. The issue was clearest in dark scenes, such as Rorschach's slow-motion walk among the ladies of the night. Sitting just one seat to the right or left of the sweet spot in front of the screen made black levels significantly brighter. Blacks on the A950 and B7000 looked slightly worse when seen from off-angle, however, while the other displays better maintained black-level integrity (and naturally the plasmas didn't change at all when seen from the side). The LH90 also showed more color shift, specifically appearing bluer in dark areas, than did any of the others except for the B7000. Finally, the effects of blooming were exaggerated from off-angle, with the brighter cloud around objects on a dark background even more obvious."

Agree with this.
But then, a good Plasma tv like panasonic 42PV10 will cost more than a lakh.



Er no, for instance the 50" samsung PS50B550 costs 75k. Panasonic price i am not familir with but there is definitely a 42" Full HD for around 75k AFAIK.
 

adder

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well as discussed earlier both techs have pros and cons.nowdays one of the main advantages of plasmas is screen size vs price edge.
all plasmas have good blacks ,but not all lcds.the LG LH90 doesn't have the best blacks natively,compared to other lcd from samsung/sony.
at the same time plasma don't exactly have great whites,as the area of whites or similar shades being displayed increases the brightness decreases.whites will look more like light grey.
then their is TIR as much as its temporary neverthless it is annoying.BURN-IN is very remote,u can't get them unless u are determined or downright careless.
in lcds you don't have to worry about this,u also don't have to do break in periods.
motion in plasma is natively better,but in lcds with frame insertion it does look better,especialy in 200hz lcds.
viewing angles is one area where plasma have a clean edge.
well i can go on and on about the pros and cons,in the end its upto the user to decide whats best suits them.
 

psychotropic

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he he yeah, adder and i have had many battles, but now we've come to this peaceful detente :) there's much to be said for both technologies, and i've recommended LCDs to people based on their needs, but we need to be aware of all the pros and cons so that we can make an informed decision.

well as discussed earlier both techs have pros and cons.nowdays one of the main advantages of plasmas is screen size vs price edge.
all plasmas have good blacks ,but not all lcds.the LG LH90 doesn't have the best blacks natively,compared to other lcd from samsung/sony.
at the same time plasma don't exactly have great whites,as the area of whites or similar shades being displayed increases the brightness decreases.whites will look more like light grey.
then their is TIR as much as its temporary neverthless it is annoying.BURN-IN is very remote,u can't get them unless u are determined or downright careless.
in lcds you don't have to worry about this,u also don't have to do break in periods.
motion in plasma is natively better,but in lcds with frame insertion it does look better,especialy in 200hz lcds.
viewing angles is one area where plasma have a clean edge.
well i can go on and on about the pros and cons,in the end its upto the user to decide whats best suits them.
 

jetak_k

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Is LH90 available freely there?? I have booked 47lh90 since 15 days , and the dealer is saying thr is shotrage of this TV coz less panels are dispatched from korea , so it might take another month !! :mad:

I was quoted 82k for the set , how much did you get it for ??

Yes, even in bangalore, they have gone out of supply. LG live database (shown to me by one retailer) did not even have any in transit also. But, I think, this will soon change.

I bought my tv before this shortage started - at 77k.
 

BLASTO

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I would also have a second look at the plasma (dont remember.. LG model.. PQ30 I think) more carefully before deciding anything. It is 27k cheaper than the cheapest LED and has comparable picture quality and features..

Well, Iam the starter of this thread and thought I would update on recent updates. Quite some intro of me will help. I have a 29" CRT and have experience of viewing HD videos in my laptop/desktop both LCDs. Sit in front of LCD monitor all the time as I work with a s/w company.

The other day I got introduced to this plasma TV PQ30 and the very brief and only plasma demo dvd (the one with the candle light) impressed me much. The price (40k as displayed, the owner being a friend's friend would have given me a better price) seem so less for what the machine had to offer. Went again to have a better look at it.

Observations:

1) The demo with normal (non plasma demo dvd) 720p side by side with LCD/LED tvs revealed that this piece had tremenderous scope.

I felt like seeing a big CRT TV. I somehow missed this experience with LCDs. LCDs have a different type of picture than CRTs IMO. I dont know how to explain but the plasma picture seem familier. The store guy said, plasmas come next to crt in PQ and LCDs are far better. Somehow I did not get the point.
Never saw plasma pictures carefully before and everyone I knew has LCDs and are happy.


2) The things I read in net were quite evident. NO PQ distraction/fluctuation WHAT SO EVER in angles. With the plasma near, LCD do seem to have colour deviations from side! I have not noticed it before when comparing to other LCDs. IPS with 178" viewing seems like fake number in front of plasma. Also, the speed of detail update is tremenderous. Something to do with 600Hz subfield driving (Dunno what it is). This plasma is not even 100 Hz but surpassed the 200 Hz truemotion Jazz by quite a margin in this area.

3) Comparing to LEDs. The LEDs, no doubt have an excellent picture when viewed in isolation. But when viewed alongside plasma, It looks vivid, colorful, all that.. But looks like an enhanced photoshop image compared to 'normal photo' looks of the plasma. I definetely like the LEDs, But Iam not sure if I will keep liking it in future. Plasma picture looked like wearing 'no makeup' which somehow I liked. Looks like my personal preference. Further, there is a price to pay for the LED picture.

4) There was a water-ripple demo along with rivers, falls etc. These look excellent on LCD/LEDs no doubt. But with plasma, I saw what I wanted to see. Clear flowing, sharp movie. Alongside, LCD/LED looked handicapped literally. I can see and trace the path of each of the drop of water in the falls individually in the rock background. The LCDs only reminded me of a wallpaper I ones had. ;) LED also fell short. Some place or other the drops seem to become a white haze. The Plasma had that 'fresh' 'splashing' feeling looking at that. I agree I wouldn't have noticed it if I had demoed only LCDs. I almost decided on plasma that moment.

Now for the hard part. My friend's store stocked only PQ30 which did not have USB movie playback. (Other models PQ60/PQ70 from brochure had it). The price being marginally different, I wanted the PQ70 (highest in lineup). Few calls he made ended up negative and I was on my own to find one.

Searched for two days and found a shop with both the models. I have to say they both look awesome with whole glass (which might also cause more reflections:mad:) No headphone out.. :( Have to live with it. Will be finalising one early next month.

It might seem like Iam talking like a plasma sales man :D. But Iam not! I simply ignored them on reading bad things in internet and seeing bad pictures on the railway timing displays.. :eek:hyeah:

Looks like plasmas are for me!
 
Last edited:

aneelr

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......

USB 2.0 movie playback is indeed great. As for inability to play HD content over USB. Are you sure about this? Or is this just missing in the Indian version? It does that in my Scarlet 2.0 which might be lower end compared to LH90. I will recheck this and get back to you.

Hi,

The USB 2.0/2.0movie ports in the Samsung LED series function's exactly similar to the WDTV........same features.

cheers
 

psychotropic

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congratulations, you have learnt the 'truth'.....welcome to the club :)

Well, Iam the starter of this thread and thought I would update on recent updates. Quite some intro of me will help. I have a 29" CRT and have experience of viewing HD videos in my laptop/desktop both LCDs. Sit in front of LCD monitor all the time as I work with a s/w company.

The other day I got introduced to this plasma TV PQ30 and the very brief and only plasma demo dvd (the one with the candle light) impressed me much. The price (40k as displayed, the owner being a friend's friend would have given me a better price) seem so less for what the machine had to offer. Went again to have a better look at it.

Observations:

1) The demo with normal (non plasma demo dvd) 720p side by side with LCD/LED tvs revealed that this piece had tremenderous scope.

I felt like seeing a big CRT TV. I somehow missed this experience with LCDs. LCDs have a different type of picture than CRTs IMO. I dont know how to explain but the plasma picture seem familier. The store guy said, plasmas come next to crt in PQ and LCDs are far better. Somehow I did not get the point.
Never saw plasma pictures carefully before and everyone I knew has LCDs and are happy.


2) The things I read in net were quite evident. NO PQ distraction/fluctuation WHAT SO EVER in angles. With the plasma near, LCD do seem to have colour deviations from side! I have not noticed it before when comparing to other LCDs. IPS with 178" viewing seems like fake number in front of plasma. Also, the speed of detail update is tremenderous. Something to do with 600Hz subfield driving (Dunno what it is). This plasma is not even 100 Hz but surpassed the 200 Hz truemotion Jazz by quite a margin in this area.

3) Comparing to LEDs. The LEDs, no doubt have an excellent picture when viewed in isolation. But when viewed alongside plasma, It looks vivid, colorful, all that.. But looks like an enhanced photoshop image compared to 'normal photo' looks of the plasma. I definetely like the LEDs, But Iam not sure if I will keep liking it in future. Plasma picture looked like wearing 'no makeup' which somehow I liked. Looks like my personal preference. Further, there is a price to pay for the LED picture.

4) There was a water-ripple demo along with rivers, falls etc. These look excellent on LCD/LEDs no doubt. But with plasma, I saw what I wanted to see. Clear flowing, sharp movie. Alongside, LCD/LED looked handicapped literally. I can see and trace the path of each of the drop of water in the falls individually in the rock background. The LCDs only reminded me of a wallpaper I ones had. ;) LED also fell short. Some place or other the drops seem to become a white haze. The Plasma had that 'fresh' 'splashing' feeling looking at that. I agree I wouldn't have noticed it if I had demoed only LCDs. I almost decided on plasma that moment.

Now for the hard part. My friend's store stocked only PQ30 which did not have USB movie playback. (Other models PQ60/PQ70 from brochure had it). The price being marginally different, I wanted the PQ70 (highest in lineup). Few calls he made ended up negative and I was on my own to find one.

Searched for two days and found a shop with both the models. I have to say they both look awesome with whole glass (which might also cause more reflections:mad:) No headphone out.. :( Have to live with it. Will be finalising one early next month.

It might seem like Iam talking like a plasma sales man :D. But Iam not! I simply ignored them on reading bad things in internet and seeing bad pictures on the railway timing displays.. :eek:hyeah:

Looks like plasmas are for me!
 

psychotropic

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But also, why settle for LG? At least have a look at Samsung and Panasonic who are the acknowledged leaders in the budget Plasma domain (LG is also good no doubt, but just compare before you buy)

congratulations, you have learnt the 'truth'.....welcome to the club :)
 

adder

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well lg plasmas are by war the worst compared to others from samsung and panasonic.

regarding ur observations on lcd/led lit lcds,the showroom settings on these are first of all crap,oversharped images,with cranked up backlight,with all kinds of processing switched to ON or set to max.which i to don't like,u will need to adjust the settings for optimal viewing.u will be suprised how good they look.
 

BLASTO

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But also, why settle for LG? At least have a look at Samsung and Panasonic who are the acknowledged leaders in the budget Plasma domain (LG is also good no doubt, but just compare before you buy)

Psychotropic Bhai, Actually LG is like my family brand.. :D
Everything from Tv, Fridge, Microwave, Washing machine etc are LG and zero problems till now.. So this was my obvious choice. Also it so happens that the LG is the most feature rich in the segment with good PQ (Not a videophile myself and can compromise a little bit of PQ to features).

I will look @ samsung definitely. But will not move if I don't see night and day difference because of lesser features and my personal brand preference. Panasonic, though as good as it may be, I will stay away because of servicing issues.
 
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