Looking for Warm sounding speakers - Castle Knights any good?

[Locomotive]

To add to my confusion. Dr. D a fellow enthusiast popped in briefly today at home and told me that my setup sounds great and why should I even think of changing it. He did concede that I could use some lower end reinforcement but that's about it.

Damn I am confused now!!!!

 

[Locomotive]

MPW sir maybe you and Dr. D should come in some day and give me your feedback.

I am however planning to go out someday this week with my amp and check our some speakers. Lets see

 

[vivek_r]

Kudos to your friend Dr. D! Sometimes we are led to believe what we need, whereas we may not need it at all!

It makes sense to ride through this period of restlessness - is it possible for you to set up reasonably near field in your living room (a chair that can be moved suitably) when you want to really enjoy music?

 

[Locomotive]

No unfortunately not. My setup dies sound a lot better if I sit in the middle of the room. That's one option I have tried in the past but is not doable solely due to room Asthetics.

This is a restless phase all right ?

 

[Mohanv]

Reading your earlier posts, it appears that you are not happy with the present listening environment.

First things first: I just googled Peachtree Audio and Magnepan MC1. You have a very carefully selected and value for money Amplifier and speakers.

Are you able to setup the Maggies with the Ribbon panels on the outside?

Please e-mail Peachtree Audio and clarify whether 6DJ8/ECC88 is a drop-in replacement for 6N1P as wired in your amp. If so, then get hold of some Philips ECC88 and plug them in. Please note that the ECC88 has a higher transconductance than 6N1P and so the output coupling capacitor may need to have a slightly higher value.

An expensive option would be to consider Spectral amplifiers, around 100W/rms. These come up occasionally in the secondhand e-bay market. The DMA models were designed by Damien Martin.

Adding a subwoofer will not be easy to integrate with the lower midrange of the Maggies. Optimum crossover could be around 110Hz. Avoid Bass Reflex boomy boxes. Transmission Line enclosures are recommended. You will need to consider biamping.

Regards
Mohan

 

[Locomotive]

Thanks you Mohan sir for your suggestions.

The matching happened by accident. I was running the MC1s with a NAD T754 receiver initially. It was set up in my smaller listening room. I was very happy with the sound. Though i did notice that the sound quality was best at a very narrow volume level band.

Then came in the Peachtree. A forum member and now a good friend wanted to sell his amp. I wasnot really looking to change my NAD. but when he kindly offered a long trial period with this amp, i took it up, mainly because i was always smitten by its looks!!!

But i fell in love with it. I remember the first week with this amp I just ended up listening to a lot of album in my collection till very late into the nights. The Maggie + peachtree combination was magic. So I bought the amp.

So i guess i was lucky.

But now that I have moved the setup to the main living room, the lower end seems a bit inadequate. as you mentioned, integrating a sub (i have a small sealed sub, SVS sb 1000) is not easy. somehow they just done go well together.

yet to take a decision on what I have to do. I havent been able to audition other speakers. and the more i think about it the more i feel upgrading within the maggie and peachtree families seem a more long term solution.

I am mulling over getting a Magnepan .7. and later upgrading to a peachtree 125. I think that would be magical combination. I will probably retain the sub for the below 45htz duties.

I have heard the .7s and they sound superb. but they are very expensive in India.

sorry could not really understand your suggestions on 6DJ8/ECC88. bit challenged technically.

 

[Mohanv]

I apologise. I took for granted that you have a scientific or engineering background.

Have you read the Stereophile Review of Peachtree Audio Decco 65?

Peachtree Audio decco65 D/A integrated amplifier | Stereophile.com

The last few sentences in the first paragraph under "Description" explains the choice of using either the installed valve (6N1P) buffer or a solid state buffer. Is your blue light burning? Do you prefer the sound with the blue light on?

At the end of Page1 note the comments on inverting polarity.

A valve buffer is usually a "Cathode Follower" circuit topology wherein 100% feedback is employed. With the valve buffer, a slightly warmer sound may be anticipated when compared to solid state buffer. 6N1P is a dual triode manufactured in Russia. Valves from different manufacturers sound different. Hence my recommendation for a Philips ECC88 valve. However check with the manufacturer first.

By the way "Valve or Thermionic Valve" is a British terminology. Americans call it "Tube or Electron Tube".

Are you able to swap the Left and Right speakers so that the Ribbon elements are on the outside when viewed from your listening position? You should be able to see the narrow ribbon element through the grille cloth. This should make a significant change to the perceived sound.

Regards,
Mohan

 

[Locomotive]

I have placed the ribbon element on the outside right from the start. It does make the sound a bit more spacious.

The impact of tube stage to my ears is very subtle. I can barely understand the difference in sound.

From an asthetic point of view I keep the tube stage switched off. Then I can see the warm glow of the tube at night. I like that very much. if i switch it on then an annoyingly bright blue led lights up at the base of the tube.

Never thought that we could do a DIY hotrod on this amp. a very interesting option

I am now really curious about tube amps. in whatever I have read, audiophiles seem to love them. But the wattage of tube amps do not add up. a 35 watt tube amp seems to be sufficient for maggies while nothing less than a 150 watt sold state seems to do the job. what am I missing? (a lot i think)

 

[Mohanv]

It is preferable to have the ribbon elements on the outside of both Left and Right speakers.

Hot Rodding, no great benefit
As I mentioned earlier, the tube stage in your amp is probably configured as a cathode follower with a lot of feedback. Hence you do not hear a difference between the tube stage switched in and out. In some circuits LEDs are a part of the tube bias voltage and so it may not be possible to turn the LED off. This is why you need to know how your amp is wired. In a cathode follower configuration, there is not much hot rodding to be achieved in changing tubes because this type of circuit configuration has no gain. The most you can achieve is a change in the timbre of instruments.

How much Power
Let us say that your normal listening level is 86dB and you need about 20dB of additional headroom for crescendos; (My average listening level is 83dB at 3.5m from the speakers.)

86dB 1W
89dB 2W
92dB 4W
95dB 8W
98dB 16W
101dB 32W
104dB 64W
107dB 128W

You would then need a good 70W to 100W amplifier power. Because Class-AB tube amps clip gracefully, you could get away with a 50W tube amplifier.

It is not just the RMS power alone that you need. The amp must have a high slew rate. This is what determines the dynamic reproduction characteristics... the maximum power that the amp can deliver for a few milliseconds during crescendos. You should be naturally drawn to tapping your feet to the rhythm of music. Some tracks on ordinary (not Audiophile) recordings such as Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong (Verve 314-543-304) allow you to do this. The music is plain Jazz/Swing and it will get you tapping your feet.

Power supply is the heart of the amplifier. A good Power supply is absolutely essential. In fact the Power Supply, Chassis and the assembly costs are the most expensive components in manufacturing.

Which Amplifier
I would unhesitatingly recommend the Spectral range of solid state amplifiers for the Maggies. These are better than my Audio Research D76 tube amplifier in driving Maggies. The new Audio Research amplifiers are not in the same league. Be on the lookout for second hand Spectral amps.

Tube power amplifiers have maintenance costs such as changing tubes, rebiasing etc.. They also warm up the room.

A tube preamplifier with a phono stage is recommended for use with Spectral amps.

Speaker Upgrade
With planar speakers it is the radiating area that matters. A larger radiating area is recommended. You could consider the 1.7 for an upgrade.

Note that these are my personal views based on past experiences.

Regards,
Mohan

 

[Locomotive]

Thank you Mohanv sir, for your comments and views. Most appreciated.

 

[Locomotive]

Unfortunately 1.7 is way too expensive in india. And they are enormous so difficult to integrate with the room Asthetics. But they sound spectacular. I am mulling over the 0.7i but it is also relatively very expensive.

I have also been thinking about hybrid electrostatic, aka the cadence aristas that are available used. I have heard them and like them a lot. Probably the only non Maggie that I have liked till now. But there are reliability issues of the panels itself.

 

[panditji]

Jenson's complete set of Aristas with the VA-1 is on sale and it is a superb match..I have the combination and like you I agree they are fantastic and should be much easier to integrate with the room (sound wise).

 

[Mohanv]

For What It is Worth:

My old MG IIBs had a vertical tilt of 5 degrees. This was engineered (by Jim Winey) into the design of the speaker base to minimise interaction with room modes/resonances. My experimentations confirm that this tilt is necessary. The top of the speaker was tilted away from the listener than the bottom of the speaker. Perhaps this may be helpful in your room.

I used less than 10 degrees 'toe in' towards the listening position.

I had two subwoofers (my own Transmission Line design using KEF B139 flat diaphragm drivers. I had them positioned on the outside of the maggies and turned 60 degrees away from the listening position (firing towards the centre of the back wall). This minimises colouration in the lower midrange. In designing the subwoofers, I learnt that the optimal opening area of the vent needed to be equal to or slightly larger than the diaphragm area of the driver. I used a Dahlquist DQLP1 crossover. Low frequencies below 110Hz were amplified by Sugden P51 power amp. Audio Research D76 was driving the Magnepans. I used the subwoofers only when I was listening to Organ Recordings or listening to big orchestral productions such as 'Carmina Burana' EMI Andre Previn conducting. Most of the time I was happy listening without the subwoofers. If you really want to listen to a natural recording, then try "Cantate Domino" Proprius Label.

Listen to the old IMF MkIV Monitor speakers and listen to the glorious 'open' sounding low frequencies. Bailey transmission Line enclosures come a close second.

As a hobbyist, I also record our Church Choir "live" using Allen & Heath ZED24 Mixing Desk and my Fostex Mastering Recorder. Most of the musical energy lies between 70Hz and 7kHz! It is when us, audiophiles go for frequency extremes that we get into the grey area of discontinuities etc..

Regards,
Mohan

 

[vivek_r]

Hi Mohanv,

Completely buy into what you are saying - however, for piano, cello and bass in orchestral music (anything Beethoven on, practically?!), speakers that go down to about 55Hz seem to me necessary to get the full magic.

Heard the IMFs too - nice!

My favourite (and highly impractical in India, what to do) are the Quad ESLs.

I also like the BBC/derived designs for warm and truthful sound. Listen for hours without tiring.

Vivek

 

[Soundstage]

I have placed the ribbon element on the outside right from the start. It does make the sound a bit more spacious.
/QUOTE]

Sir,

Have you tried them with the tweeters inside?

I too had initially installed my 1.6s with the tweeters outside as recommended in the manual but was sorely disappointed.....the sound was vague and all over the place. On a hunch I swapped them so that the tweeters were on the inside and suddenly, to my ears, everything just fell into place. Vocals were dead centre, where they should be, and the imaging improved dramatically.

For me they had been a blind buy and with the tweeters outside I was sorely disappointed to the point of chalking it down to experience and disposing them off. Later while browsing through AA I discovered that I wasn't alone in discovering the merits of keeping the tweeters inside.

Bass....Ive never felt any lack of bass with the 1.6s, on the contrary it is plentiful.

Cheers

 

[Mohanv]

Thanks Vivek and Soundstage for your pointers. Perhaps, I had a warm sounding tube preamp and Tube power amp combination driving the Maggies. This combination also produced a big soundstage. My personal tastes lean toward a 'larger than life' presentation. It is soul filling.

My favourite Quads are the ESL57s. Sadly, the newer and larger (recent) models do not excite me as much.

Vivek, I agree that as far as small speakers go, you cannot beat the British.

I thank you Soundstage for sharing your experiences with the Maggies.

Regards,
Mohan

 

[Soundstage]

Thanks Vivek and Soundstage for your pointers. Perhaps, I had a warm sounding tube preamp and Tube power amp combination driving the Maggies. This combination also produced a big soundstage. My personal tastes lean toward a 'larger than life' presentation. It is soul filling.

I thank you Soundstage for sharing your experiences with the Maggies.

Regards,
Mohan

Sir,

I agree with you that Maggies fill up the room in a way that very few other speakers do.

I've driven my Maggies with a number of amps and found them to absolutely love power. In my system, and to my ears, the best results I've obtained are with a pair of Musical Fidelity 550K Supercharger monoblocs. These powerhouses really hold the Maggies by the you know what and make them sing. The soundstage is very large and rock solid with various instruments firmly in their well defined places....you get the impression that you can walk around them with ease. Vocals and strings are to die for.

My suggestion to the OP, since he loves the Maggie sound, would be to stick with them and try them with amps which are able to deliver more power.

Cheers

 

[Locomotive]

I completely agree sir, there is no replacement for a maggie. In fact i have been scouring the internet to find some used 1.6 or 1.7 but just could not find any. The new 1.7i is way beyond my budget. I am not able to enjoy my speakers in my living room and i do not have the option of taking them back to a smaller room.

In the meanwhile I heard the Cadence Arista, a hybrid electrostat speaker from Cadence. superb sound. mids and highs were almost as spacious as the maggies while the lows were tight and well integrated with the electrostats. They are definately the best speakers i have heard in these few months.