Monster 16 Gauge vs Onkyo 12 Gauge (internal wiring)

[angynagpal]

Hi all,
I am getting my house interiors done and had got pipes inserted in walls for having an internal wiring setup for speakers. Now, the pipe setup for the front 3 speakers is fine but for the rear speakers I will need to take the wires along the floor first till the back wall (max 10ft distance) from where they will go into another pipe and then the internal wiring continues.

Now, I am getting wooden flooring done in this area, so basically the wires travelling along the floor would be under the wooden flooring. So yesterday my wooden flooring guy told me to get the wiring done withing a day (i.e. yesterday itself). So I rushed to a shop (Onkyo showroom in C.R Park) and told him the setup and asked him to suggest me a good wire for it, specially since the wiring would be residing under the wooden flooring. Also, I have not selected the speakers yet so told the shopkeeper to take that into account too (I have selected Denon 1911 as the avr I would like to have).

Initially he was showing me the Onkyo 12 Gauge wires (@ Rs. 85 per meter) but then showed me Monster 16 Gauge (around Rs. 170 per meter) and suggested I go with these as they are THX certified, have 5 year warranty and what not. Now, I had researched about speaker setups and all more than 6-7 months back, but didnt pursue it after I bought a new house to move in, so I perceived 16 gauge to be better than 12 gauge :sad:. Only after coming back I realized that 12 gauge is much better.

So I came here and wanted to ask you guys, if the wire I bought it fine? The max distance between the AVR and the farthest speaker is 18-20ft. All wiring is internal. 2x10ft of wire (for both rear speakers) would be under the wooden flooring.

Also, the wires had marking for direction in which the wire should move from source to destination. Is it necessary to follow the directions....as I didnt notice it while installing the wire setup....its only now that I realized those markings were there !!! Monster website says that the directions are only for shielding purpose.....whats shielding???

Am I screwed????

 

[angynagpal]

Anybody????

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Cables has become a matter of faith. This is mine about speaker cables: thick is good, but twice the price is not.

Five-year warranty? What is there to go wrong in a length of cable, for goodness sake? monsterous marketing.

 

[dazoy]

Actually 12 gauge is thicker than 16. it works backwards for cable gauges.

Secondly, what does THX have to do with cables? Get 12 gauge non-monster cable. It will sound as good as any other 12 gauge cable and is definitely better than 16 gauge Monster cable.

Cheers,

Saurabh

 

[koushik]

Don't give much of a thought to cables. Avoid creepy local cheap cables ( I am talking about cable @Rs.15-20/m) and anything else is fine. Onkyo is good enough. Throw the thought out of your mind and enjoy the music and movies. Cheers :cheers:

 

[angynagpal]

As mentioned in the OP...I already bought the 16 gauge ones ! I just had half an hour to decide....so went with whatever the shop guy told me. Only later I realized I have been cheated !

Anyways, its been a blessing in disguise (so far) as the internal piping which was done for the wires just about managed 1-2 wires....so had I got the 12 gauge ones, it would have been difficult to insert two wires together (infact for the front three speakers, all 3 wires are initially entering through a single 1 inch flexible pipe).

But thanks to all for their replies....I guess il need to be much more careful while purchasing such stuff and relying on the shopkeeper's suggestions! Now I would just need to hide this fact, that the Rs.85 wire would have been better or as good as the Rs.170 ones, from my wife :fear:!

 

[Moviela]

You are not screwed.

.....whats shielding???

Am I screwed????

You are fine. In the future, fully ignore the advice of commissioned salesmen concerning the virtures of wire. You bougt wire capable of a 115 foot run to the speakers. If your theater is that large, the kitchen must be capable of feeding a small army. hyeah:

Seriously, use this chart to determine the size of wire needed. Remember the larger the wire gauge, the smaller the diameter.

http://www.belden.com/docs/upload/Speaker_Cable_Selection_Guide-Speaker_Cable_Selection_Guide.pdf

Shielding is a metal sleeve over a signal wire to keep external currents in adjacient wires from interfering with the signal. The currents in speaker wires are not likely to need shielding unless you run the speaker wires in the same conduit (you called it pipes) as mains or input signals. Speaker and CAT 5 cables should never be run in the same conduit with mains wiring for safety reasons. The power and speaker cables should not be bundled together, and shoud be kept apart by 15cm (6 inches) or more.

For a home theater, the Belden 1307 is more than capable.

http://www.belden.com/products/catalogs/mastercatalog/brilliance/upload/19-31_37.pdf

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Actually 12 gauge is thicker than 16. it works backwards for cable gauges.

--- I think I knew that once!

Cheated is probably too strong a word. The sales people will certainly have an eye to their margins, but they get brainwashed by the marketing too, probably even more intensely than the public. When it comes to speaker cables, I think that people cheat themselves more often than they get cheated by salesmen: look at some of the strange home-mades, using stuff like ethernet cable, which is not even designed to carry current. But then, yes, I never heard them myself...

 

[soulforged]

What you've bought is good enough...but like the others are saying, you could have saved a few rupees...since you dashed all the way to CR Park, you could've have stopped over at Nehru Place and looked for MX cables.

In anycase, afterthought is always wiser...you did not have much time to research and decide...so don't take it too hard on yourself. Just enjoy the experience.

And when you have guests over, tell them you got special THX certified cables installed because you are sooo particular about the sound. That might give you a few pennies in return to your investment

 

[angynagpal]

And when you have guests over, tell them you got special THX certified cables installed because you are sooo particular about the sound. That might give you a few pennies in return to your investment

Yeah....sounds good lol!!! Already sold these wires to my wife saying its THX Certified, 5 Year warranty and that 16 gauge is better than 12 :lol:!!

 

[Deleted member 17547]

Make sure she do not read this thread..

Enjoy..!!!

 

[sachin_k5]

16 gauge is good enough, but you paid for nothing extra, 12 gauge would have done the same job for lesser price. Now Relax and enjoy your redone house and audio system.

 

[angynagpal]

16 gauge is good enough, but you paid for nothing extra, 12 gauge would have done the same job for lesser price. Now Relax and enjoy your redone house and audio system.

Yeah...infact im happy I got 16 gauge, as a 12 gauge wire would not have fit into the piping structure that I have......its just that I could have gone for a 16 gauge onkyo wire instead of monster !

But jo hua so hua....i mean its just 2500 extra bucks....

 

[musicbee]

This thread reminds me of the time I went to Reliance Digital for some digital cable for my Onkyo. The salesman was only pitching Monster at some 3K. Thankfully, I had gone with my geek friend who convinced me to go for Bandridge which cost me Rs. 700 or so.

 

[spirovious]

Monprice speakers cables are good sounding one & are cheap-
Speaker Wires

 

[kissenchand]

I've been using Havel's 2.5 sq mm electrical house wiring wires (equivalent ~ 13 AWG) to connect all speakers to the AVR. It costs about 36/- per meter (for a pair). The sound seems OK. But I have not yet heard any audiophile set up. So cannot compare my system with those.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I hope you removed all the oxygen from it!

Many people have reported good results with mains cable. If I was to DIY, this option would make much more sense to me than using something that is not even built to carry current, like ethernet cable.

Is your cable solid or stranded? Would that make a difference?

 

[Moviela]

Is your cable solid or stranded? Would that make a difference?

At these voltages or frequencies stranded or solid makes no difference, except stranded is easier to lay. It is also easier to pull through conduits and harness if necessary.

I would advise against mains cable because someone might connect it to the mains! You will have fireworks without benefit of a festival!

 

[kissenchand]

OFC and standard copper used by reputed electrical cable manufacturers are not significantly different from the point of view of electrical conductivity. Only that factor counts for conductors of given gauge, as far as only the electrical conduction is concerned. We use speaker cables only to carry the electrical signals from amplifier to speakers. There is not much oxygen left in the standard electric cable to affect the motion of free electrons. So I didn't try to squeeze them out.

 

[soulforged]

I've been using Havel's 2.5 sq mm electrical house wiring wires (equivalent ~ 13 AWG) to connect all speakers to the AVR. It costs about 36/- per meter (for a pair). The sound seems OK. But I have not yet heard any audiophile set up. So cannot compare my system with those.

I once heard a reasonable setup with Finolex cables. It sounded pretty good to me...