My earthing is screwed

Love4sound

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Dear Fm’s

As the title suggests my earthing is all messed up. Neutral to earth reading as per IEEE standard should not exceed 3 volts for homes and 5 for industrial. Mine is always around 15-30. I contacted vertex and had their electrician inspect my grounding. As per his suggestions we inserted new 6feet earthing pipes and re-did the grounding. It had 0 impact and the readings in image is after the grounding work was completed. Now I am clueless on what to do next. Is there any device I can add in my chain along with Vertex stabilizer to correct the earth and neutral voltage?
 

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Love4sound

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What exactly was done/re-done?
They installed new 6 feet grounding pipes. Since the hole was narrow they couldn’t dig 6 feet and pull the old pipe. They where able to dig only till their hands reach which is about 1.5-2 feet and installed the new pipes next to the old pipes and remove the copper wires from the old pipe and tied it to the new pipe using bolts. Also while closing they used some coal and salt along with the sand.
 

mbhangui

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If your building earthing is good (assuming that you have a thick copper bar going to the ground with coal/salt with enough moisture to make the electrical conduction good), then the fault is in the transmission. Do you have a main distribution box? Is the neutral to earth on the distribution box also this high? If it is high even at the distribution box, then you probably need to complain to the electricity board. If this is a multi apartment building then make this aware to the society and check with the neighbours if they too have this issue.
 

arunkvivek

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Try to hire a power quality consultants. Th
They installed new 6 feet grounding pipes. Since the hole was narrow they couldn’t dig 6 feet and pull the old pipe. They where able to dig only till their hands reach which is about 1.5-2 feet and installed the new pipes next to the old pipes and remove the copper wires from the old pipe and tied it to the new pipe using bolts. Also while closing they used some coal and salt along with the sand.
This is traditional way of doing earthing. Using chemical earthing is currently in vogue. The difference is in life of earthing 10 years traditional - 15 years chemical approx.
Unless the old pipe and copper plate was removed, one cannot say if earthing has started to fail.
Hire some power quality consultants if you can.
 

Love4sound

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Educate them and redo this after root causing, if need be.
Cheers,
Raghu
No way I can. For 4500 itself one was suggesting why not get the materials and do it our self. For lift maintenance ground floor refused to give and they stopped using it. 70+ and if they need to come up they use the stairs with great stress just to save 500-1000. 1st floor one is arguing 2nd floor uses the most why should I pay for maintenance and you expect them to share for a 40-50k maintenance work lol
 

arunkvivek

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My flats has 5 houses and all have the same problem. We do have a main distribution box in the ground floor for the entire apartment.We checked it and found the neutral and ground voltage to be the same as well. I am also suspecting the neutral line but the electrician straight away wen for re-doing the ground which costed 4500 and ended in 0 results. So next is to contact EB and have them check the transformer line? Grounding is not using copper bar but just the regular steel pipe. They quoted 30-40k for copper rod which the flats will never agree to share.
Whoever has quoted 30-40K is trying a heist.. even chemical earthing including labor would cost about 10-12K.. this was the quote for 16 units apartment in Bangalore.
 

arunkvivek

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No way I can. For 4500 itself one was suggesting why not get the materials and do it our self. For lift maintenance ground floor refused to give and they stopped using it. 70+ and if they need to come up they use the stairs with great stress just to save 500-1000. 1st floor one is arguing 2nd floor uses the most why should I pay for maintenance and you expect them to share for a 40-50k maintenance work lol
Can understand your pain.. been an office bearer of RWA at my place.
 

Love4sound

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Whoever has quoted 30-40K is trying a heist.. even chemical earthing including labor would cost about 10-12K.. this was the quote for 16 units apartment in Bangalore.
Ok but now I doubt if the issue is really with ground.
 
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Decadent_Spectre

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My flats has 5 houses and all have the same problem. We do have a main distribution box in the ground floor for the entire apartment.We checked it and found the neutral and ground voltage to be the same as well. I am also suspecting the neutral line but the electrician straight away wen for re-doing the ground which costed 4500 and ended in 0 results. So next is to contact EB and have them check the transformer line? Grounding is not using copper bar but just the regular steel pipe. They quoted 30-40k for copper rod which the flats will never agree to share.

Then if you want it done suck it up and pay.

My father lives in a seperate house, the lift was not working, the other tenants didn't want to pay, I paid for the lift repair since he is old and lives on the 4th floor.
 

Love4sound

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Then if you want it done suck it up and pay.
What if earthing is not the problem? Let the electrician check and arrive at a solution which I will consider with or without others paying.
My father lives in a seperate house, the lift was not working, the other tenants didn't want to pay, I paid for the lift repair since he is old and lives on the 4th floor.
Yes I did pay for the lift service and asked the ground floor to use it since they are very old. But to justify their action they are purposely using the stairs so can’t help it.
 

grindstone

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The problem may have little to do with your building but with some interaction with neighboring installations, plumbing, or otherwise. This is over my head but even ordinary "experts" get stumped by these things. Power utilities often need to be shown the solutions before they agree, at least where I have lived. Keep reading everything you can on the subject whenever you can. It should not be like this, but it is in my experience. Good luck and please post intermediate updates. I will try to find references for you as well.
 

mbhangui

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We checked it and found the neutral and ground voltage to be the same as well. I am also suspecting the neutral line...
Your guess is correct. If the neutral to earth is fine at the distribution end your transmission line is fine and the responsibility of the EB ends. It is your building neutral line that has a problem. The contractor probably cut corners. It has happened in my building where the contractor joined two wires by twisting at the ends instead of using a single line. During the rains water seeped in and loose contact developed and ultimately this caused sparking and a mini fire. the entire joint got carbonized. When the electrician came to fix the problem, he just cut the cables, removed the carbonized parts and again used another wire to join them thus creating three wires joined by twisting the copper strands. I explained the problem to the society and they forced our builder to replace the entire wiring. If one wants to reduce the cost, it is better to use large butt connectors and crimp the cables rather than the 'substandard horrible indian jugaad method' to join two wires.

The way the electricians do this is horrible. They put the cable in their mouth as if it is a god's gifted splicing machine to strip off the insulator. After that they join the copper stands and twist them to glory. If that is not enough, they again use their mouth to cut a long strip of some cheap insulation tape with ISI marking and they roll it on the exposed copper stands as if they are dressing it for some funeral. The less I talk about it, the better. It just infuriates me. If few months down the line if that joint is not going to create a problem, hang me.
 
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zero7

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I think it is do with with your EB and not earthing alone. I am facing the same issue at my parents house. During construction, electrical contractor cheated and put a two feet steel pipe for earthing. Last year, when I started working from there, I started getting electric shock in my laptops. Leakage source was the refrigerator. Since earthing was insufficient, you could get electric shock every where. I got the earthing done with a 6 feet pipe and 10 gauge copper wire directly drawn from a switch board earthing issue was resolved. I spent about Rs.8K (I had to get a new refrigerator too.)

Neural to earth voltage is always above 9V here and goes up to 30V. I checked at my neighbor's house, which is connected to distributors line at a distance of 100m+, it's same. I checked with a local electrician and he said that issue lies across the town. KSEB is the culprit. As per a licensed electrician, the problem is typically due to earthing issues at the transformer and the joints in the main line. We need to complain to the EB and get it rectified. From my home to the transformer, the distance is about 0.7 KMs and it's not an easy task to get it fixed.
Please check the voltages at few of the houses in other buildings if possible and see if the issue is same across in the area. If so, try to submit a written complaint signed by all the people to your EB. Hope they take up the issue and fix it.
 

Love4sound

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Your guess is correct. If the neutral to earth is fine at the distribution end your transmission line is fine and the responsibility of the EB ends. It is your building neutral line that has a problem. The contractor probably cut corners. It has happened in my building where the contractor joined two wires by twisting at the ends instead of using a single line. During the rains water seeped in and loose contact developed and ultimately this caused sparking and a mini fire. the entire joint got carbonized. When the electrician came to fix the problem, he just cut the cables, removed the carbonized parts and again used another wire to join them thus creating three wires joined by twisting the copper strands. I explained the problem to the society and they forced our builder to replace the entire wiring. If one wants to reduce the cost, it is better to use large butt connectors and crimp the cables rather than the 'substandard horrible indian jugaad method' to join two wires.

The way the electricians do this is horrible. They put the cable in their mouth as if it is a god's gifted splicing machine to strip off the insulator. After that they join the copper stands and twist them to glory. If that is not enough, they again use their mouth to cut a long strip of some cheap insulation tape with ISI marking and they roll it on the exposed copper stands as if they are dressing it for some funeral. The less I talk about it, the better. It just infuriates me. If few months down the line if that joint is not going to create a problem, hang me.
By same I meant that neutral to earth voltage is high in the main line as well.
I think it is do with with your EB and not earthing alone. I am facing the same issue at my parents house. During construction, electrical contractor cheated and put a two feet steel pipe for earthing. Last year, when I started working from there, I started getting electric shock in my laptops. Leakage source was the refrigerator. Since earthing was insufficient, you could get electric shock every where. I got the earthing done with a 6 feet pipe and 10 gauge copper wire directly drawn from a switch board earthing issue was resolved. I spent about Rs.8K (I had to get a new refrigerator too.)

Neural to earth voltage is always above 9V here and goes up to 30V. I checked at my neighbor's house, which is connected to distributors line at a distance of 100m+, it's same. I checked with a local electrician and he said that issue lies across the town. KSEB is the culprit. As per a licensed electrician, the problem is typically due to earthing issues at the transformer and the joints in the main line. We need to complain to the EB and get it rectified. From my home to the transformer, the distance is about 0.7 KMs and it's not an easy task to get it fixed.
Please check the voltages at few of the houses in other buildings if possible and see if the issue is same across in the area. If so, try to submit a written complaint signed by all the people to your EB. Hope they take up the issue and fix it.
Yes I will check with EB once the electrician confirms the issue
 

Love4sound

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The problem may have little to do with your building but with some interaction with neighboring installations, plumbing, or otherwise. This is over my head but even ordinary "experts" get stumped by these things. Power utilities often need to be shown the solutions before they agree, at least where I have lived. Keep reading everything you can on the subject whenever you can. It should not be like this, but it is in my experience. Good luck and please post intermediate updates. I will try to find references for you as well.
Sure will update if the issue is sorted out
 

spirovious

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Is any of the sockets in the house has wired wrongly? I mean by mistake Earth is connected to neutral pin and neutral to earth?
 

mbhangui

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By same I meant that neutral to earth voltage is high in the main line as well.

Yes I will check with EB once the electrician confirms the issue
That's a problem that you cannot solve. The EB has to fix this. As @zero7 says, this fault is most likely at the distribution transformer end.
 
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