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NAD CDP with USB & digital inputs

AV Cables

smedhavi

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Hi,

As most of you already know I love the NAD sound. This has stopped me from moving to a hard disk based system. So a few days back I sent an email to NAD asking them if they had any plans to release an external DAC, which has a sound similar to the C542 CD player. CA and other companies have already released such products.

Here is the reply:
We don't have plans to launch a external DAC but look at the C565 which has Sample Rate Converter with external Optical Input so it can be used as DAC.
Best regards,
NAD Electronics

NAD Electronics :: C 565BEE CD Player
The NAD C 565BEE looks like a very good CD player with USB and optical inputs. Though I wonder why they chose optical over coaxial.
Interesting product, but not really cheap.

The next one year would be interesting in the way different manufacturers deal with audio from hard disk sources.

Regards,
Sharad
 

spirovious

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Only one problem-
Nad CD player will be costly & may be >than 50k.

In this case (for 50k) we have other options also like-

1.Bluerayp (24 to 30k)+ DAC magic(25k) = 55k
or Beresford7510= 35k total

2.WD mediap(8k) + DAC magic(25k) =33k
Beresford7510(8K) =16k

3.Pio610 (7k) + DAC magic(25k) = 32k
Beresford7510(8K) =15k

DAC magic uses Wolfson DAC
 

venkatcr

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Spiro, the NAD 565BEe also uses Wolfson 24/192 DACs in Dual Differential configuration.

I think NAD may be forced to rethink on it's stand. With more and more lossless files available online, and the point that playing from a hard disk may actually be better than playing from a CD, NAD may be forced to introduce an external DAC quite soon.

I have a sneaky feeling that computer companies such as Creative, Asus, or Logitech may actually beat the audio companies to the race. They are quicker on their feet and can look at volume that the audio companies can never imagine. I would be least surprised if Asus decides to make it's excellent internal sound card into an external box to beat the market.

The question is are we ready as a group to look outside our narrow eyesight (or should I say ear'sight') and consider the possibility that we can pick up good equipment from such companies? If we believe that only the NADs, Rotels, Brystons and the CAs can deliver good audio equipment, we may actually miss the technology bus altogether.

Cheers
 
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smedhavi

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Venkat, you are right. Looking at the success of Logitech's Squeeze box, I do believe that people are ready to look at alternatives. Even if audiophiles accept it as a good second system, it is a beginning.

On paper the DAC in NAD 565BEE is quite similar to CA DACMagic, but I am sure they would carry the typical sound each house is known for. I would have easily jumped at a standalone DAC from NAD, but buying another expensive CD player, when the solution is supposed to be a substitute for it, does not make enough sense right now.

Thanks,
Sharad
 

spirovious

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CDp will work for 5 yrs approx,so again one has to search for CDP which will be similar to current.This procedure is headache.
If you have good DAC,you have to only change budget CDP or DVDp which is very easy.

Venkat Sir,

Can you suggest another DAC which is cheap & close to 7510?
One thing I liked abt DAC magic that it can make your system easy.
ie.It has dig out too,so if you input 5.1(DD/Dts) it is automatically output through Dig out which can be connected to AVR.
 

reignofchaos

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CDp will work for 5 yrs approx,so again one has to search for CDP which will be similar to current.This procedure is headache.
If you have good DAC,you have to only change budget CDP or DVDp which is very easy.

Venkat Sir,

Can you suggest another DAC which is cheap & close to 7510?
One thing I liked abt DAC magic that it can make your system easy.
ie.It has dig out too,so if you input 5.1(DD/Dts) it is automatically output through Dig out which can be connected to AVR.

I'm inclined to believe that with a DVD Player, one would not even reach 50% of the potential of the DAC. I believed transports didn't make much of a difference until I heard a TEAC VRDS-10 system at a friend's place. The difference between that and a cheapo Sony DVD player is like night and day. Its like switching from say a NAD amp to GamuT/Krell or similar.
 

venkatcr

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ROC, what you say is correct. The budget DVD players do not come near a dedicated CDP. I have stressed this many times across HifiVision. My point is to use a HDD based FLAC files and give it the best possible path including DAC before amplification.

I had started a discussion on this to some extent in http://www.hifivision.com/home-theater-box/3830-what-next-audio-technology.html, but none seemed interested. My thoughts are now leaning even more strongly towards HHD based system after I read the article Do Hard-Disk Drives Sound Better Than CD? | AV Guide.

I also see that some discussions are going on in http://www.hifivision.com/home-theater-pc-htpc-media-pc/3703-music-pc-ca-dacmagic-3.html.

Spiro, I have been looking at alternatives. I even spoke to Audire, and they claim they can make a very good DAC at around 18,000. If there is enough interest, I can take it up with Audire. Let me also look around.

Cheers
 
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venkatcr

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reignofchaos

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ROC, what you say is correct. The budget DVD players do not come near a dedicated CDP. I have stressed this many times across HifiVision. My point is to use a HDD based FLAC files and give it the best possible path including DAC before amplification.

I had started a discussion on this to some extent in http://www.hifivision.com/home-theater-box/3830-what-next-audio-technology.html, but none seemed interested. My thoughts are now leaning even more strongly towards HHD based system after I read the article Do Hard-Disk Drives Sound Better Than CD? | AV Guide.

I also see that some discussions are going on in http://www.hifivision.com/home-theater-pc-htpc-media-pc/3703-music-pc-ca-dacmagic-3.html.

Spiro, I have been looking at alternatives. I even spoke to Audire, and they claim they can make a very good DAC at around 18,000. If there is enough interest, I can take it up with Audire. Let me also look around.

Cheers


I agree to you on many of the points - a properly setup PC transport is significantly better than an entry-mid level CD transport as most of the pitfalls are avoided.

However the SPDIF outputs of most PCI sound cards are not properly isolated and considerable noise from the switching PSU can pass thru to the digital outs. An SPDIF transformer helps in this regard in filtering out the noise. However most soundcards skimp on this important thing. My 1212M has it while the Xonar Essence doesn't.

Some folks suggest use of optical but that does more harm than good - optical has way more jitter than coax. The best option is to get an I2S signal out of the soundcard somehow and feed it into the DAC avoiding SPDIF conversion and the resulting jitter issues completely. But few DACs allow this and the soundcard will need modification.

The best DACs for computer applications are those based off a well designed Firewire interface such as the Weiss Minerva. Since Firewire is asynchronous and one doesn't have any timing or bit errors, a DAC that directly converts Firewire to I2S is the absolute best solution. Unfortunately these are not cheap :(.
 

venkatcr

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Thanks ROC.

I was thinking more in terms of a sound card with an inbuilt DAC. Lynx2, and hdsp9632 from DME come to mind. Or I am also looking at Benchmark DAC1 with USB that may avoid these pitfalls.

I am in the process of building a high end HTPC, and am looking at all options.

Cheers.
 

reignofchaos

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Thanks ROC.

I was thinking more in terms of a sound card with an inbuilt DAC. Lynx2, and hdsp9632 from DME come to mind. Or I am also looking at Benchmark DAC1 with USB that may avoid these pitfalls.

I am in the process of building a high end HTPC, and am looking at all options.

Cheers.

The lynxTWO is not worth the money unless you are a recording engineer. The Hammerfall is a pretty good card for 400USD. However neither of these cards are meant for an audiophile type listening setup. They are purely for monitoring and not for easy listening what we do. The Lynx has a superb SPDIF out though which is a bonus in case you intend to put an external dac onto it.

The Benchmark USB is a good DAC but overrated and way overpriced cos of name. I've heard the benchmark on more than one occasion and found it to be forward, harsh and not to my liking. At that price I'd rather take the Stello DA100 or the one i own - Audiozone DAC-1. Other options are used Thetas, Wadias, Electrocompaniets, Wavelengths or if you are lucky maybe even a 47labs.

Head over to audiogon for lots DACs on sale. You may not be able to purchase them but you'd get lots of brands to explore :).
 
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spirovious

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Thanks ROC.

I was thinking more in terms of a sound card with an inbuilt DAC. Lynx2, and hdsp9632 from DME come to mind. Or I am also looking at Benchmark DAC1 with USB that may avoid these pitfalls.

I am in the process of building a high end HTPC, and am looking at all options.

Cheers.

So atlast you started thinking of HTPC:clapping:
Still in many ways dedicated system can work better than HTPC,duo to drivers,power etc.

Audire is good name in spk ,but dont know how they make amps.
I am not sure ,new company can make 1st attempt successful even though they use best components.18k is ok,but still 7510 is available for 8k.
It can be risk to buy 1st DAC from 1st attempt,isnt it?
 
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venkatcr

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So atlast you started thinking of HTPC. Still in many ways dedicated system can work better than HTPC,duo to drivers,power etc.

Audire is good name in spk ,but dont know how they make amps. I am not sure ,new company can make 1st attempt successful even though they use best components.18k is ok,but still 7510 is available for 8k. It can be risk to buy 1st DAC from 1st attempt,isnt it?

Oh, I have been thinking of an HTPC for the last two years, since the time Squeezebox became popular. Only now the assembling and configuration is catching speed.

Audire makes good amps and good speakers. But, as you say, there is a certain risk in being the first user. At the same time, since they are local company, you will get good service from them.

Cheers
 

spirovious

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Oh, I have been thinking of an HTPC for the last two years, since the time Squeezebox became popular. Only now the assembling and configuration is catching speed.

Audire makes good amps and good speakers. But, as you say, there is a certain risk in being the first user. At the same time, since they are local company, you will get good service from them.

Cheers

Ok,but for Mumbai its still far as we dont have local dealer.
What is the price range of Nad CDps?
 

venkatcr

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The lynxTWO is not worth the money unless you are a recording engineer. The Hammerfall is a pretty good card for 400USD. However neither of these cards are meant for an audiophile type listening setup. They are purely for monitoring and not for easy listening what we do. The Lynx has a superb SPDIF out though which is a bonus in case you intend to put an external dac onto it.

ROC, can you throw a few sound card names for me? There used to be a site with a detailed comparison of sound cards, but when I checked this morning, that site is gone.

Cheers
 

spirovious

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reignofchaos

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ROC, can you throw a few sound card names for me? There used to be a site with a detailed comparison of sound cards, but when I checked this morning, that site is gone.

Cheers

Here are some interesting ones that come to my mind immediately
EMU 1212M/1820M
Lynx AES16e (erstwhile LynxTWO)
RME HDSP (also known as Hammerfall)
M-Audio Delta 1010LT
MOTU 2408
MADI XTreme 64
Asus Essence STX
Echo MIA series of Cards
Apogee Symphony (PCIe)
Digigram VX series (PCIe)
 

venkatcr

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Thanks a million. Shall do some research / comparison, and pick one I like.

Cheers
 

smedhavi

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I have no plans to place a PC in my listening room. Most of them are too noisy in dedicated rooms. So the reason I started this thread was to consider a PC'less harddisk based audio system, with a warm clear sound normally associated with standalone CD players. This NAD CDplayer does solve that problem but in an expensive way.

The other options are:
  • WD TV HD with an external DAC.
  • Squeezebox is good too but I do not want to do this over the LAN. I could get a NAS drive with Slimserver installed on it, but that might be a hassle, and I already have a few USB drives that I could use. I am looking forward to an upgrade to squeezebox (long overdue), which might support USB.

Thanks,
Sharad
 
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