Nature and music

[Deleted member 15865]

I opened this thread to let people judge for themselves and discuss if they find 432hz music clip is better or not, but seems people are already devoted to the fact that what they are getting is good enough and do not want to experience anything new. Not much input is there for that judgement thats sad for audiophiles.

That’s an unfair comment. Everyone commenting has been contributing to the subject from their perspective/understanding. It’s not just about the voting, is it?

Here is a chart for frequency distribution of indian shrutis and western. Indian goes by ratios and western go by some magical mathematical no. These values are considering sa as C, make a note that next C after the octave is exactly double the origical C in both cases. Laws of nature are same whether its india or west.

View attachment 45262

If you read the mathematical links given in my previous comment, you’d see why they intermediate notes don’t match. Of course moving on to a higher octave will double the frequency. It’s the mismatch in the notes in between that makes harmonium an inaccurate accompaniment to Hindustani music. Besides of course it’s inability to produce microtones. Note that flute masters can produce microtones by part closing of the holes - no such possibility with the harmonium, organ or piano.

 

[keith_correa]

But one important question arise what was the need to standardise

In the article, the writer has explained why.

The writer himself says that he cannot comfirm there is no difference between psychological effects between 432 and 440hz.

Yes, I don't think he's a qualified psychologist to confirm it.

Lets say Bach was writing his tunes on 425, so why suddenly everyone was asked all around the world to listen to those in 440.

Bach was primarily a composer. I don't think composers compose to a frequency. What do you mean suddenly listen in 440? I don't understand. And I don't think it was sudden too.

Writer says it was standardised on complaint of singers. Thats rubbish to me.

He's provided events where it was standardized and a very brief background of what led to this - there's no need to determine and conclude based on one's belief. Its easy enough to research and then conclude.

Having said all this, personally i feel that some music can sound real surreal if it was on 432hz. It should be kept on the musicians and performers choice what to present to audience and on what frequency even if its not 432hz and something else. Stamdardization can cripple art.

I can think of numerous scenarios where tuning of instruments at a standard (which is all basically this is about) makes good sense. One has to understand what the tuning does and once that is clear, you will see that nothing related to "art" or "creativity" is affected. Why should it? The creativity remains intact.

Crux of this is that there was no 432 before. That's a made up story. The means to measure simply didn't exist. Yes, after a certain era, there's been a recommended standard. So what are we comparing? Apples vs Nothing! I prefer 435. Good for me! Someone else may prefer 441. Good for them.

 

[firearm12]

That’s an unfair comment. Everyone commenting has been contributing to the subject from their perspective/understanding. It’s not just about the voting, is it?




If you read the mathematical links given in my previous comment, you’d see why they intermediate notes don’t match. Of course moving on to a higher octave will double the frequency. It’s the mismatch in the notes in between that makes harmonium an inaccurate accompaniment to Hindustani music. Besides of course it’s inability to produce microtones. Note that flute masters can produce microtones by part closing of the holes - no such possibility with the harmonium, organ or piano.

You are linking again with indian vs western, this thread was never about technical discussions about indian vs western.

 

[Deleted member 15865]

You are linking again with indian vs western, this thread was never about technical discussions about indian vs western.

Let me quote you from the opening post of the thread: “I don’t know how many of you aware but 432hz is considered universally the fundamental frequency of our planet and nature. All sounds in nature can be tracked to this frequency. The sound om is supposed to resonate at 432hz and thus bring us closer to nature.” With a sweeping universal statement like that whjch applies a broad brush for music (in fact sound) in entirety, I used the Indian music‘s contrast with the western to show how a major form of centuries old classical music has not bothered about any fixed frequency... thereby urging you to reconsider the universality of your assertion.

Also, the links I provided aren’t comparing Indian VS western music. If you felt that way, you either missed their point or did not read them well. They are specifically devoted to frequency of notes and scales and limitations of the 12-tone equi-tempered scale. But if you want to only focus on 432 vs 440 Hz which I see as a subset of the scale choice, I am guilty of broadening the subject.

Also, since you are so sure of the supremacy of the 432 Hz as your comments suggest, what were you seeking from the poll anyway?

 

[firearm12]

Let me quote you from the opening post of the thread: “I don’t know how many of you aware but 432hz is considered universally the fundamental frequency of our planet and nature. All sounds in nature can be tracked to this frequency. The sound om is supposed to resonate at 432hz and thus bring us closer to nature.” With a sweeping universal statement like that whjch applies a broad brush for music (in fact sound) in entirety, I used the Indian music‘s contrast with the western to show how a major form of centuries old classical music has not bothered about any fixed frequency... thereby urging you to reconsider the universality of your assertion.

Also, the links I provided aren’t comparing Indian VS western music. If you felt that way, you either missed their point or did not read them well. They are specifically devoted to frequency of notes and scales and limitations of the 12-tone equi-tempered scale. But if you want to only focus on 432 vs 440 Hz which I see as a subset of the scale choice, I am guilty of broadening the subject.

Also, since you are so sure of the supremacy of the 432 Hz as your comments suggest, what were you seeking from the poll anyway?

Well you can straightaway disagree with that statement if you like, how does the argument indian vs western help here? Western is still bothered about 440hz even if what you say is true. i have anyway told indian music is excluded. Both work on different principles. I had just asked in the thread which sound did one like out of two, not why and how it would not matter.

Regarding what i seek was the general opinion of sound in the clip from general people like me, what did they observe if they observed some differnce. if i preferred 432hz and think its supreme why would i ask for a poll?

 

[moktan]

I listened to the guy’s guitar on the first YouTube video and for some reason found the 440 Hz to my liking. I cannot explain why so it must have been on a whim. But it was strong enough to sway my preference.

 

[keith_correa]

I listened to the guy’s guitar on the first YouTube video and for some reason found the 440 Hz to my liking. I cannot explain why so it must have been on a whim. But it was strong enough to sway my preference.

Maybe your "chakras" were mis-aligned when you listened.

 

[Deleted member 15865]

Well you can straightaway disagree with that statement if you like, how does the argument indian vs western help here? Western is still bothered about 440hz even if what you say is true. i have anyway told indian music is excluded. Both work on different principles. I had just asked in the thread which sound did one like out of two, not why and how it would not matter.

Regarding what i seek was the general opinion of sound in the clip from general people like me, what did they observe if they observed some differnce. if i preferred 432hz and think its supreme why would i ask for a poll?

So why do you give references of ‘Om’ if your outlook was strictly western music? On the one hand you talk of 432 Hz being primordial frequency of nature/universe and then have an issue with someone confronting that with how Indian classical, steeped in the same spirituality doesn’t have any one frequency as fundamental. That was done only to refute your universality claim. But if you are retracting that now to limit only to western music, I see that confrontation is no longer necessary.

 

[firearm12]

So why do you give references of ‘Om’ if your outlook was strictly western music? On the one hand you talk of 432 Hz being primordial frequency of nature/universe and then have an issue with someone confronting that with how Indian classical, steeped in the same spirituality doesn’t have any one frequency as fundamental. That was done only to refute your universality claim. But if you are retracting that now to limit only to western music, I see that confrontation is no longer necessary.

i did not know om has something to do with indian classical music. Thanks for enlightening me. I am not making up 432hz on my own nor i am responsible for giving clarifications on it. If you have a browser at home, please google it. I just thought it was interesting, and tried it shared it. You are trying to find a logic behind why you should try it, sorry i cannot help there.

I am not retracting "now" just press back page and go to post 8

 

[moktan]

Besides of course it’s inability to produce microtones. Note that flute masters can produce microtones by part closing of the holes - no such possibility with the harmonium, organ or piano.

I read this interesting quote from a classical
pianist.

What would you say distinguishes a fine pianist?

His ability to make a piano “sing.” Let me explain. The piano is a kind of percussion instrument. After a note is struck, the sound can only decrease in volume—unlike that of wind instruments or the human voice, which can hold a note or even increase its volume. The challenge for pianists is to overcome the tendency of a note to fade. They do this by subtle movement of their fingers and wrists, along with the complex interaction of the right pedal, which extends the duration of a note and varies its timbre. When pianists master these difficult techniques, they can make the piano sound like a flute, a horn, or even an orchestra. They can also make it resemble the finest musical instrument of all—the human voice.

 

[amitk777]

Firstly, fixing any such base tone is counter to the ideology of Hindustani classical (and most of Indian music) and could rob it of interesting variety

That is very interesting research to read. I am just a beginner to Hindustani classical music however would like to share a little what I have learnt.

It looks like it hardly matters where the "Sa" is.
My son's SA is at G#, and mine is A#.
His teacher has asked to set the Tanpura at G# when he sings and at A# for me.
I can't make out if the bandish is less enjoyable in one than another.

Also , classifications in Hindustani music, seem more in tune to human nature.
Take for examples, the classification of ragas into Poorvang and Uttarang.

In the evening, ragas where the dominant swar is in the first half of the octave are sung, where the development is towards the lower octave . Whereas in the late night and early morning , ragas with dominant Swara is the later half of the octave and development into the teevra saptak are advised.

This tells us that early morning human mind is more like to appreciate listening to higher notes.

On a lighter note, the advice would be to play bhajans by lata mangeshkar in the morning and ghazals by Asha Bhonsle in the evening.