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Need help with building a HT system

Wharfedale Speakers

Anands123

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Sep 9, 2008
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Location
Mumbai
Hi,

I am planning to replace my old TV (CRT) and music system with a new LCD TV and a component HT system. While I was grappling with some options and trying to research a bit, I came across this wonderful forum. As adivsed by few, I have read a lot of threads and am posting my query for review and inputs. Thanks

My room is about 15 feet width by 12 feet length and about 12 feet high. One side is open leading to the dining side of the hall. The other side has a large sliding window. This is a rented place and might shift out in the coming years. I am looking at the system largely for movies (80%) and the rest for music. However, I love to have something that will sound great. As this is not a very permanent set-up, I am not keen to invest too much or try for a perfect match to this room's specifications. However, I am keen to get something that is scalable for the future. Here is a jist of what I am planning. Please comment.

The easier one first on TV, I was planning to get the SONY W series 46 inches from the grey market. It cost Rs 1lakh and the MRP is 1.6 lakhs. While I know I am running a bit of risk here, I am hoping Sony will atleast service it if there are any problems.

For the HT system, my overall budget is a maximum of Rs1.5 lakhs. As my room is not so big, I was thinking of getting satellite speakers. Was extemely impressed with the B & W MT series, costing about Rs 1 lakhs for 5.1 set-up including sub-woofer of about 200W. The other choices in short list are the mordaunt short genie and the KEF KTH series. I heard bose lifesyle systems, but was not as good as these. Especially, the lower frequencies. If tower speakers floor standing are the best way to go, then I could drop the satellite and somehow fit them in, though the room might look a bit cluttered.

For the AVR, I was thinking either the Onkyo 705 of the Denon 2308. While I am aware that for such a small room, I may not need so much power output, I am hoping that when I move into a permanent st-up, I will move these tiny speakers to another room and buy better speakers like floorstanding set-ups for the HT. In addition to good sound and picture, I am keen to have the video upconversion as well as a universal remote to control all elements with one.

Is the overall line of thinking right, and can you advice me on the following.

a) Sony W series 46 LCD TV? Or should I go for other brands instead?
b) Is it OK to buy it from the grey market (huge savings and hope SONY will not have problems)
c) Are the speaker type and brand choices good? Any other?
d) Are these amplifiers OK? Brand, power output?

Look forward to getting some inputs. thanks a ton!
 

Anands123

Member
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Sep 9, 2008
Messages
92
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8
Location
Mumbai
Sorry about the long question earlier. I live in Mumbai and also wanted to check the prices for these systems and the best places to buy them in. Thanks again.
 

psychotropic

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Jul 19, 2008
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Location
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the Sony W series has superb LCDs, but have you considered plasmas.....for that one lakh you could get a Pioneer Kuro 42 inch or a high end panasonic 42 inch.....or a 50-incher from samsung or panasonic.....and i mean buying it in "white" from the dealer with a warranty....if you have considered them and actually prefer the picture on the LCD, then forget about this :)
 

Anands123

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Messages
92
Points
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Location
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Thanks. I have not seen the Plasma's though. In general, was of the impression that Plasma's aren't as durable as LCDs
 

prashant_dv

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Aug 18, 2008
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Hi Anand,

if you are looking for up-conversion to HDMI then denon 2308 is the perfect choice which has ample power as well as HDMI up-scaling. i know a friend of mine who is using this AVR (2308).

just my 2 cents on the AVR part ;-)
 

girl21

New Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
124
Points
0
Location
Mumbai
I would suggest:

LCD TV : LGScarlet 60 "42 inch"
DVD player: New Philip DVD HDMI Player with usb port
HTS : Onkyo S5100 7.1 channel

everything in ur budget buy from e-zone or sumaria

Best Regards
Girl21 :)




Hi,

I am planning to replace my old TV (CRT) and music system with a new LCD TV and a component HT system. While I was grappling with some options and trying to research a bit, I came across this wonderful forum. As adivsed by few, I have read a lot of threads and am posting my query for review and inputs. Thanks

My room is about 15 feet width by 12 feet length and about 12 feet high. One side is open leading to the dining side of the hall. The other side has a large sliding window. This is a rented place and might shift out in the coming years. I am looking at the system largely for movies (80%) and the rest for music. However, I love to have something that will sound great. As this is not a very permanent set-up, I am not keen to invest too much or try for a perfect match to this room's specifications. However, I am keen to get something that is scalable for the future. Here is a jist of what I am planning. Please comment.

The easier one first on TV, I was planning to get the SONY W series 46 inches from the grey market. It cost Rs 1lakh and the MRP is 1.6 lakhs. While I know I am running a bit of risk here, I am hoping Sony will atleast service it if there are any problems.

For the HT system, my overall budget is a maximum of Rs1.5 lakhs. As my room is not so big, I was thinking of getting satellite speakers. Was extemely impressed with the B & W MT series, costing about Rs 1 lakhs for 5.1 set-up including sub-woofer of about 200W. The other choices in short list are the mordaunt short genie and the KEF KTH series. I heard bose lifesyle systems, but was not as good as these. Especially, the lower frequencies. If tower speakers floor standing are the best way to go, then I could drop the satellite and somehow fit them in, though the room might look a bit cluttered.

For the AVR, I was thinking either the Onkyo 705 of the Denon 2308. While I am aware that for such a small room, I may not need so much power output, I am hoping that when I move into a permanent st-up, I will move these tiny speakers to another room and buy better speakers like floorstanding set-ups for the HT. In addition to good sound and picture, I am keen to have the video upconversion as well as a universal remote to control all elements with one.

Is the overall line of thinking right, and can you advice me on the following.

a) Sony W series 46 LCD TV? Or should I go for other brands instead?
b) Is it OK to buy it from the grey market (huge savings and hope SONY will not have problems)
c) Are the speaker type and brand choices good? Any other?
d) Are these amplifiers OK? Brand, power output?

Look forward to getting some inputs. thanks a ton!
 

ashiff

New Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
14
Points
0
Location
Mumbai
Hi,

This feb, I almost made my mind to Buy a Philips LCD TV. That is when I came across a sales techie who explained me about LCD TVs and I settled in for LG 37LC7R... I am really happy for the choice I have made.

In LCD, you have soft panel and hard panel. If you knock on the LCD TV, if you see ripple effects, then it is soft panel. Most sony and Samsung come with soft panel. Hard panel do not produce ripple effect. Hard panel are good as they have very high contrast ratio. Higher the contrast ratio, better is the LCD.

Don't go for Full HD, it is a marketing gimmick (can't believe the techie told me this). Your naken eye cannot differentiate the output of HD content in a HD Ready TV Vs. Full HD TV. Both look same. You will face an issue only when you use the LCD TV as a monitor.

You can trade in spec with contrast. LG panels are hard panel and mine was having a contrast of 1:10000. Also LG uses Super - IPS (In plane switching, check out Wikipedia) which makes the picture lively.

My baseline is :- Do your research well, buy only what you see. I was impressed with LG's picture quality (espl. shallow water displayed on LG compared to others) and I am happy with this decision.
 

Anands123

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Location
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Many thanks to Ashiff and Girl21 for your inputs. Would you also have a view on buying a LCD TV from the grey market? Is the risk not worth taking?
 

girl21

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i really dont know abt grey market....where is grey market in mumbai?????:)
even i will visit there.....
where will i get (grey market)HDMI cables, optical wires etc......:(


i feel/think that grey market is good for products like mobiles, house items but u are going to invest huge money then go for a proper dealer/showroom.
 
Last edited:

ajinkya

Active Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Messages
510
Points
43
Ashiff,
It's not true that we can't perceive the difference between HD Ready and Full HD. If the TV is 37 inches or higher, there will be a discernible difference. Especially true since Anand is planning to buy a 46 in. LCD. HD content will benefit from Full HD. Standard Def. (SD) content may or may not to that extent, depending on the interpolation techniques the TV hardware uses.
HD is not a marketing gimmick. However, it's true that when selling a 29-32 in. LCD, many salespeople try to make users buy 1080p TVs just to make a higher
sale. Our eyes cannot make out a difference for this TV size. That's a sales gimmick, not an HD gimmick.

Anand,
it's always better to go for a full-warranty TV rather than the grey market, if the price is within your budget comfortably.
 

venkatcr

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Jul 1, 2008
Messages
7,327
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Location
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1. AVR

Let us look at the most important specifications of the two VARs you have chosen.

a. Onkyo 705

THX Select 2
175 Watts per channel into 7 channels
Upscaling by Fardoudja (DCDi)
Frequency Response: 5Hz to 100,000Hz
Upconversion through HDMI from all inputs
192/24 Cirrus Logic DSPs

b. Denon 2308

100 watts into 7 channels
Upscaling by Fardoudja
Frequency Response: 20Hz to 20,000Hz
Upconversion through HDMI
192/24 Analog Devices DSPs

Would THX matter? Well, THX ensures that the amplifier is built in a way that it is capable of reproducing sound as it was recorded by the Director. This was felt very necessary by George Lucas when he produced the Star Wars series.

Would Frequency responce matter? Not today, but when you start playing TrueHD, SACD, And DVD-A, yes it will. Because these will be recorded at a larger frequency range.

Would power matter? Well since you have a long term plan, more power will help, particularly when you go to your own house and install Floor Standers.

2. TV

If you are going in for anything over 42 inches look for a TV that has a resolution of 1920x1080 and is Full HD. As Ajinkya said, you can easily discern the clarity difference in a full HD TV that is 42 inches and above. Of course you have to use a DVD Player or a AVR that can upscale to 1080p.

3. Speakers

Though your decision of a sub/sat is fine, I am a little concered about the B&W MT. Mind you, I have a huge admiration for B&W, and my plans are to ultimately own the high end B&W. But in terms of sub/sat, KEF, Mordaunt Short, PSB would give better VFM. You should also choose a set, where when you go to a larger room/house, you can replace the Front R&L with floor standing speakers.

4. Room Acoustics

You need not spend too much money on room acoustics. You can get small sound asbsorbing panels made and place them at the position of maximum sound reflection. You can even remove them and take them to your new set up. Please read the follwing links where I have explained these in detail

http://www.hifivision.com/av-enhancers-room-acoustics/1870-fs-bs-200-ft-room-size.html
http://www.hifivision.com/av-enhanc...-help-required-entertainment-room-set-up.html

Room acoustics is critical.

Cheers
 

ashiff

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Messages
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Location
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Hi

I do not know abbout grey market but I got my TV in Singapore. Here, it wass quoted 65 - 69K INR while I got the same from audiohouse (Audio House specializes in wide variety of audio-visual consumer electronics) in S'pore for 38K INR. Paid a customs duty of 5k. In total, it was a 25K saving for me.

For costly items, it makes sense to buy abroad and pay customs duty since most of our guys are happy in robbing you straight
 

ashiff

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Ashiff,
It's not true that we can't perceive the difference between HD Ready and Full HD. If the TV is 37 inches or higher, there will be a discernible difference. Especially true since Anand is planning to buy a 46 in. LCD. HD content will benefit from Full HD. Standard Def. (SD) content may or may not to that extent, depending on the interpolation techniques the TV hardware uses.
HD is not a marketing gimmick. However, it's true that when selling a 29-32 in. LCD, many salespeople try to make users buy 1080p TVs just to make a higher
sale. Our eyes cannot make out a difference for this TV size. That's a sales gimmick, not an HD gimmick.

Anand,
it's always better to go for a full-warranty TV rather than the grey market, if the price is within your budget comfortably.

Hi,

We guys are driven by perception and the actual truth might differ. We are in specification driven market and that is why we still measure speakers in Watts PMPO and not in sensitivity.

Just ask a few questions yourself. How many HD channels you have in India? What HD content do you play in your HD TV? How many guys have HD TV? The answer is very simple. Go watch HD content in HD ready and Full HD in 46" and give me your opinion (I watched it in 42" side by side)

However, when I made this investment, I ensured that I try to be as future proof as possible.

So, I did check out HD TV content and compared with normal content (same channel), I did not find a big deal in Saas - Bahu serial on HD content.

Most of the contents played in TV shops are for selling HDTV. They are way ahead of what you are gonna get in mass market atleast for the next 2 years (till Blu ray hits in India).

What I ensured was that my TV supported 1080p input processing. So my LCD can receive full HD video, process it and display the results.

Please check out the press release by EICTA (EICTA: INDUSTRY LAUNCHES CONSUMER AWARENESS CAMPAIGN FOR NEXT GENERATION HIGH-DEFINITION TELEVISION)...

Again I wish to say that you need to use your eyes to believe and not the specs and perception to buy what you might need by spending extra bucks
 

venkatcr

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Ashiff:

I agree you must buy what your eyes tell you,

At the same time, I don't think major manufacturers such as Pioneer, Samsung etc., lie. They never claim that a non-1080p display can actually play 1080p material. Yes, the local dealer may try to fool you if he sees you do not understand.

Standards set by bodies such as EICTA are good for small manufacturers and maybe some Chinese products. But manufacturers such as Pioneer, Samsung etc., who spend million of dollars in research are always way ahead of these standards setting bodies. And remember, the bodies are formed by the manufacturers themselves (of course supported by local governments) and are used to protect their investment and to some extent the interest of the consumers.

Based upon what is called the eye acuity, if you use a good DVD, player and TV combination, for a person with 20/20 vision, it has been proved that you can discern the color, motion, and clarity in a 42 inch TV. Thus this size is used as the jumping wall for Full HD systems.

Cheers
 

Anands123

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Thankyou all for your discerning inputs. Will be truly helpful.

Thanks Venkatcr. I was really hoping to hear from you having read some of your other posts.

I hear what you say and think I will go with the Onkyo for AVR. However, will the high power output be too much for a sub/sat?

On the speakers, if I want to replace the front L & R with floor standers in future, can I still go for a sub/sat set or should I go for a book shelf set which might better suit the future floor standers better?

Secondly, though I have not done enough auditions yet, is my hunch right that floor standers would be better than sub/ sat overall? I just want to make sure that for the budget I have (1 to 1.5 lakhs for AVR and 5.1 speakers) I get the best sound. Would sub/sat be too much of a compromise?

If floor standers are better, would you recommend the Wharfedale 9.6 Diamond or the Morduant Short Mezzo 8 or any of the Polk Audio based on the AVR Onkyo 705

Lastly, what would be a rough price estimate for Morduant Short, KEF and PSB satellite speakers and if possible the above FS models?

Thanks in advance
 

ajinkya

Active Member
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Oct 27, 2007
Messages
510
Points
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Hi,
Just ask a few questions yourself. How many HD channels you have in India? What HD content do you play in your HD TV? How many guys have HD TV? The answer is very simple. Go watch HD content in HD ready and Full HD in 46" and give me your opinion (I watched it in 42" side by side)

So, I did check out HD TV content and compared with normal content (same channel), I did not find a big deal in Saas - Bahu serial on HD content.

Ashiff,
When you mention that you saw 'HD content' in the TV showroom, can you tell me what exactly was being shown? If it was a TV serial, I am not aware of anyone except BigTV that streams (what they claim) is HD. Did you check that the sales person was not fooling you by showing you SD content instead? If so, then you would not make out the difference between SD on different LCDs, as I've mentioned. Did the sales person show you Blu-ray movies or any other media that was authentic 1920x1080 resolution?

I ask because I want to be sure what resolution the sales people are showing us, the next time I go to purchase my TV. If you could mention which shop you went to, that would be helpful as well.

Thanks,
Jinx.
 

venkatcr

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anand said:
Thanks Venkatcr. I was really hoping to hear from you having read some of your other posts.

Well, if you want to hear from me, there is no harm in sending me a PM.

anand said:
I hear what you say and think I will go with the Onkyo for AVR. However, will the high power output be too much for a sub/sat?

On the speakers, if I want to replace the front L & R with floor standers in future, can I still go for a sub/sat set or should I go for a book shelf set which might better suit the future floor standers better?

As the Americans love saying, 'there is no such thing as too much power.' There is no harm in having a bit of additional grunt available. As an example, the MS Genie can handle 100 watts per channel and the 705 will deliver somewhere around 130 at 8 ohms. So you are safe.

At the outset, I am not sure whether a sub/sat system can be replaced piece by piece and enhanced into a full fledged speaker system.

In a movie, the main players are the center channel for dialogue, the front L&R for bulk of the sound, and the sub woofer for bass. If you want better music at a later date, you will have to replace the Front R&L. If you want better music and better movie sound you will have to replace the front R&L, the center and the sub.

When I said this in the previous post, a better idea would be to build a system consisting of bookshelves for front, a center channel, a sub, and a two DFS for surround. That way, you can replace just the bookshelves with floor standers later. The bookshelves can be used elsewhere, or moved to do rear surround duty

The second option is to go in for the sub/sat now, and change the whole system down the line by selling your sub/sat and buying new speakers set consisting of Floor Standers, center, sub woofer and surround speakers. This depends upon how quickly you are planning for the change. If it is going to be over 18 months or more away, just go in for the sub-sat now, and plan for new speakers after you shift later. Put the extra money in a bank and earn interest till your next purchase.

anand said:
Secondly, though I have not done enough auditions yet, is my hunch right that floor standers would be better than sub/ sat overall? I just want to make sure that for the budget I have (1 to 1.5 lakhs for AVR and 5.1 speakers) I get the best sound. Would sub/sat be too much of a compromise?

For movies alone, a sub/sat is NOT a compromise. The MS Genie and the KEF are consistent award winners, and you will get very good sound. Just use good cables, and you will be rewarded with sound that you will be proud of, dont worry. Sub/sat have been specially designed to deliver good sound for movies, and they do that quite well.

Anand, 'would something be better' is an endless debate. Please don't get into that thinking mode. Just buy what you like best now, something that fits your budget, and use it to the fullest extent for the next 2 to 3 years. Start looking around at that time, do some experiments and audition, and decide whether you want a change or you are happy with your current system and can live with it for another 2 years or so.

To give you an analogy, my nephew has a HT Room that cost him around a crore. He has equipment that I can only dream of. He uses it very rarely as he finds the system too 'strenuous' for daily use. He sits in his drawing room and watches a simple TV/DVD Player combination !!!

When he comes to my house, he enjoys the system here that costs a fraction of his. I use my system to the full, and when I go to his house, I spend a bulk of my time enjoying his HT Room. This is like his having the cake and my eating it.

anand said:
If floor standers are better, would you recommend the Wharfedale 9.6 Diamond or the Morduant Short Mezzo 8 or any of the Polk Audio based on the AVR Onkyo 705

There are a number of threads that discuss Wharfedale, MS, Tannoy, Polk and other speakers. Plese read through them to narrow your choices for audition.

anand said:
Lastly, what would be a rough price estimate for Morduant Short, KEF and PSB satellite speakers and if possible the above FS models?

I will give you the prices I am aware of. These are not exact prices but ball park estimates, based upon what I have read in mags and in this forum.

The PSB Alphas are around 18K a pair, The KEF 5.1 HT System varies from about 40K to 100K. MS Genie HT Systems are around 40,000. A Wharfedale system consisting of 9.6x2 plus DFSx2, a center channel, and a sub would cost around 80K. If I remember right Polk Audio should also cost around this price,

Cheers
 

psychotropic

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This is no longer the case.....contemporary plasma panels have a lifespan comparable to LCD screens...issues like image retention (burn-in) have been adequately addressed to such an extent that they are virtually immaterial...the images also display deeper blacks, better colour reproduction, better motion-tracking and viewing them from acute angles does not result in loss of colour or contrast (as you would observe on LCD screens)......there are people who prefer the picture on LCDs, and at the end of the day it is a personal preference.....but please do have a look at plasmas, and don't let concerns about durability deter you....compare them side by side with an identical source and comparable settings.....i am fairly sure you'll prefer the plasmas :)....but i'd be happy if you prove me wrong as well....

You can probably tell the difference between Full HD and HD Ready at 42" and above....but the difference will be marginal....coupled with the lack of availability of Full (and true) HD content in India, this makes the extra cash required for a Full HD display, a bit of a waste....unless you have cash to spare.....

Thanks. I have not seen the Plasma's though. In general, was of the impression that Plasma's aren't as durable as LCDs
 

ashiff

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Location
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Hi ajinkya,


As I told in my original post, I bought my TV in Singapore, I watched a TV5 (singapore's local TV) both in HD format as well as SD format. The detailing was there but it was of no use as it was a serial. HD did not make a big impact for me in that soap.

Also for others, have you been to a TV showroom where the play the same HD feed for both HD ready as well as Full HD Panels. What are the difference you find. If you use a microscope, then the difference is really huge but for the naked eye..... Give me your frank comments after watching it.

I go with psychotropic's comment. If you have enough money, then why debate... go for Full HD... Also, Plasma are really good and far ahead of LCD panels. But go for brands like Pioneer, Pnasonic which are masters than any unknown brand...
 
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