New $119 tube hybrid headphone amp from Schiit

[wishihadtubes]

Schiit have a new tube hybrid headphone amp called Vali that sells for only $119!

 

[Santy]

Holy Moly!

Schitt is going places with their tiny brushed aluminium boxes.

 

[techboy]

But no point buying from schiit.com in India because they have a flat $60-75 shipping along with 30-35% customs on Amount + Shipping amount both because of how USPS operates. They don't undermark, they don't do first class mail which sometimes gets through customs.

So you will end up paying more than 15k+ for this $120 amp. Not worth it unless somebody is getting it for you.

Thank You

Aakshey

 

[wishihadtubes]

You have a point about prices increasing substantially with the addition of shipping and customs. Usually when I post about low priced products such as this one it's to make the point that good products can be made and sold at reasonable prices unlike the BS the big names keep spewing out with tags of thousands of dollars bolstered usually only by a marquee brand.
Let's face it - hi-fi became what it is because millions of reasonably priced turntables and amplifiers made their way into homes in the 1950s and 1960s, and hi-fi is now being massacred by big brands.
And all those fluffy reviews on websites and in magazines for amplifiers and even cables that cost $2000 - remember one thing: No reviewer buys the stuff he's reviewing.
Sorry for the rant but just my two bits.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

This is a thorny issue .

On the history thing: I was born in 1952. Pretty much throughout my youth stereo was expensive and elite. Even when it came within the reach of a larger number of people, it was still expensive for most of us --- and I remember my friend's dad with the Quad gear and the Tannoy speakers (he had a recording studio as well, but that's another story). That was early 1970s. I wonder how much that lot cost him!

I love the ODACs, Valis, and all the other products that enable the not-very-wealthy to enjoy hifi. As to the rest, though... Yes, throw out the bullshit, especially all the stuff that relies on faith, marketing, and pseudo-science lies, and then check out what's left: some of it is very genuine, very desirable, and ...very expensive.

 

[techboy]

That point is invalid. This is a $120 amp, it competes with amps in the $100-200 range. It doesn't compete with amps in the $250-500 range. If you want a genuinely mid fi amp, you need to spend more. This is entry level stuff, no more, no less.

$5k amps have their place as well. Just because not everybody can afford them doesn't make them a gimmick.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Well, in a way that was my point. Even $50,000 amps probably have their place. Here's a $120 headphone amp; I have a $300 headphone amp, and am sort-of saving up for a $1,600 headphone amp.

Will the difference be worth it? I'll certainly be letting people know my experience ...if I ever make it.

One of the first posts I ever made on this site amounted to "you get what you pay for." At that time, I was still under the impression that, in hifi, even if expensive didn't always mean good, good would always be expensive. In the years since then, I have learnt soooo much (Thanks HFVers!).

 

[techboy]

Ya. That is what I meant. Not all expensive is true hifi, but most true hifi is rarely dirt cheap

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

In fact, the Schitt range of headphone amps goes from $99 to $749. I guess they believe they are selling something worth paying $650 extra for, and I guess the customers believe it too.

Mind you... I wonder how many $749 customers even bother to find out how good the $99 model is!

 

[techboy]

Many people have compared two or more schiit amps. And in most cases they agree that you get what you pay for. The differences are audible and objectively in favor of the more expensive ones when compared apples vs apples.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

What, even in a double blind test?



OK, I'm being naughty there. Well, a bit, at least. :lol:

What you say is what I'd expect of any half-decent company with any decency at all.

 

[techboy]

I am not aware of any double blind tests. But considering half are tube and rest ss, then the differences become more obvious as well.

 

[vkalia]

Most of those head-fi comparisons are a load of crap, if you excuse my French.

There are people claiming to distinguish "slight difference in soundstage" between 2 firmware versions on a DX50, for example. :facepalm:. And the ever-popular "burn-in" of cables, etc.

Bigger amps are indeed better, but up to a certain point - once you get an amp that is capable of delivering ample currents into varying loads, and without using heaps of feedback to come up with good numbers, you are good to go.

Question is - is a Schit $120 amp that much better than, say, a $120 Bravo Audio amp? Ultimately, at that price, the main difference is going to be circuit design. Is an amplifier really that complicated a design that an American firm can make a better design than a Chinese firm? I dont really think so. And can Schiit put in better quality parts, given their higher cost structure? Again, I dont think so.

 

[indialogue]

Most of those head-fi comparisons are a load of crap, if you excuse my French.

Question is - is a Schit $120 amp that much better than, say, a $120 Bravo Audio amp? Ultimately, at that price, the main difference is going to be circuit design. Is an amplifier really that complicated a design that an American firm can make a better design than a Chinese firm? I dont really think so. And can Schiit put in better quality parts, given their higher cost structure? Again, I dont think so.

There is nothing wrong with your French

Headfi has become less and less of an enthusiasts forum and has now become a commercial enterprise whose fruits are earned by a few like Jude and Currawong, case in point is their gift guide.

So the really large, spirited discussions on that forum needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.

 

[oyster]

Question is - is a Schit $120 amp that much better than, say, a $120 Bravo Audio amp? Ultimately, at that price, the main difference is going to be circuit design. Is an amplifier really that complicated a design that an American firm can make a better design than a Chinese firm? I dont really think so. And can Schiit put in better quality parts, given their higher cost structure? Again, I dont think so.

At least the Vali case looks far classier than any of the Bravo stuff. Yes, an amplifier design is complicated. Else we all would have bought a Tripath and be done with it. Price has nothing to do with the performance at least in this age where we pay for the Product+Marketing+Greed.
My 7k Yamaha sounds far better than the 20k HE400. That does not make HE400 a bad product. Just not VFM. And yes; IMO/Personal Preference etc.

 

[vkalia]

Yes, an amplifier design is complicated. Else we all would have bought a Tripath and be done with it.

"Complicated" is probably the wrong word on my part - you are correct that the circuitry itself can be complicated. My point was that the design principles are fairly well known, and it isnt as if there are a whole lot of "secret" amplifier formulas known only to the cutting-edge designers. There are quite a few ways of implementing these but nothing that you cannot find in a few textbooks on the subject.

So from that point of view, I feel that a bunch of guys in China with the proper electrical engineering training can make as good an amplifier at a given price point as, say, a bunch of guys in the US who used to be a part of audiophile industry for a while.

Price has nothing to do with the performance at least in this age where we pay for the Product+Marketing+Greed.

I keep seeing references to "marketing" and "greed", as if these are somehow new phenomenon. They arent, really. Human beings have been motivated by profits since times immemorial, and while marketing has merely become more sophisticated, the principles havent changed. Marketing doesnt force us to buy anything. We buy stuff b/c it fulfils a need or desire.

But I digress - this isnt really relevant. I do agree with you that the Schiit amps look a lot nicer than the Bravo.

 

[techboy]

To be fair to Schiit, from what I can infer Vali is audibly better than other sub $150 hybrid tube amps, but not really in the same league as those which cost $200-300+. So it is an excellent deal but not a revelation. And definitely a step up from bravo and indeed stuff.

Based n detailed and fair research from a variety of sources.

 

[vkalia]

To be fair to Schiit, from what I can infer Vali is audibly better than other sub $150 hybrid tube amps, but not really in the same league as those which cost $200-300+. So it is an excellent deal but not a revelation. And definitely a step up from bravo and indeed stuff.

Based n detailed and fair research from a variety of sources.

Those are pretty strong statements. It really depends on how much credence you put on those "variety of sources".

Actually, in the case of the Vali, it might well be true, as budget tube amps are a lot about design compromises, and it is quite likely that guys like Stoddard know a little more about to come up with a better compromise.

That being said, I'd hesitate from using such definitive phrases as the ones above based purely on Head-Fi reviews - or even reviews in more respected audiophile magazines.

Subjective reviews are prone to a lot of error (volume, listening fatigue, placebo, gear placement, etc) and relying on the word of someone who is getting paid to wax eloquent about the emperor's new clothes doesnt carry a lot of weight in my books.

 

[oyster]

I keep seeing references to "marketing" and "greed", as if these are somehow new phenomenon. They arent, really. Human beings have been motivated by profits since times immemorial, and while marketing has merely become more sophisticated, the principles havent changed. Marketing doesnt force us to buy anything. We buy stuff b/c it fulfils a need or desire.

Yeah , that's right. Times have seen several overpriced items. But these days; too many choices; too little innovation to justify the price; too little VFM options.
The goal for Vali or any other product should be to set a benchmark for the asking price.

 

[techboy]

People have compared Vali to Bravo/Indeed and found Vali better build/reliability wise with better sound. Not enough comparisons to form a consensus yet though.