Noob setup - Question about Yamaha HTR 2071.

[mesopystic]

Hello everyone,

I am new to the world of home theatres and hi-fi and have done some bare-bones research to get started. I wanted some advice regarding a basic setup. I'll get right on to it.

This setup is for my TV space in the living room. In my current rented apartment, my listening distance from TV (and speakers) is around 7.5 to 8 feet. The living room is L-shaped and for various reasons, the only good place to setup the TV is in the shorter arm of the L. Currently, my TV is connected to a bunch of old Technics speakers being powered through a local amp in a stereo setup. They are actually quite good but have lately started giving me problems, hence wanted to upgrade.

I am trying to budget this out optimally for now. So let me outline what I had in mind.

I was thinking of buying a cheap AVR for starters, and then adding good quality speakers for L,C,R and sub (basically a 3.1). I want to have the experience of a discreet centre channel for dialogues. I can't manage surrounds for now, because there isn't space in the room for the same. My sitting position is against a wall and I can't convince the partner to have so much wiring all over for now. I thought that the addition of a centre channel and a good sub will give an added oomph to my current setup. Plus, with a 5.1 AVR, I can upgrade the setup with surrounds in the future.

With that thought, I looked at options. The first option I found was the Yamaha HTR 2071 available with a Home theatre package for around 31k. I wasn't really interested in the speakers and the sub of this package (the YHT 1840) but thought that the cheapest 5.1 AVR I could find individually would still be upwards of 40k.
(By the way, just as an aside, what the hell is up with these prices. I see past posts on the forum dating 6 months back and the costs were way lesser. Things retailing for 45k are now straight 10k higher. Is there any scope for prices to go down in the future with the semiconductor situation getting better?)

The following are the specs of the HTR 2071. Yes, it doesn't have Bluetooth and DTS-x and YPAO and many other features, which I am currently ok with. I may get a Bluetooth adapter to play music on top.

• --- 70 W per Channel (6 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 0.09% THD, 2-ch driven)
• --- 100 W per Channel (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.9% THD, 1-ch driven)
• --- 135 W per Channel (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 10% THD, 1-ch driven)
• HDMI® (4 in / 1 out) with 4K Ultra HD full support (4K / 60p [4:4:4]), HDR Video and BT.2020

More here - https://asia-latinamerica-mea.yamah..._visual/av_receivers_amps/htr-2071/index.html

Now, my question is about power and amplification. With this AVR, I was thinking of powering some good speakers. Not fully researched them yet, but the initial contenders are (just to give you an idea of what I am going for)

1) QA 3020is with the QA 3090 centre. And a decent active sub, maybe the Yamaha NSW100. (Approx. total cost 70k). This would make my total budget 1L.
The 3020i has recommended AV receiver power of 50 to 75W for 2 channels. Considering the HTR is a 70W powered (2ch) AVR, do you think they would shine? The 3090 centre has recommended AV receiver power at 50 to 165W. At a 100W per channel power from the 2071, will they shine?

(This is where my noob-ness shines. I don't actually know this matching stuff a 100%, just surface level and theoretical, since I've never owned a hi-fi).

2) Polk T15s with Polk T30 centre. And an active sub.

I have a few more ideas but more on that later when I research more thoroughly.

The other AVR option I have is a straight 20k or 30k jump for the Denon 550BT (Around 50k) or the Yamaha RXv4A (60k). Am I right in thinking that it's prudent to save the money on the AVR and invest them in good speakers for now? Because some of the other features on the more expensive AVRs are not really of use to me. So my key questions are:
1) Future-proofing aside, is the HTR 2071 good enough to power this range of speakers at a listening distance of 8 feet for movies. Music listening is minimal on the above setup and if at all, it'd just be for background listening or (more actively) watching music videos off Youtube.
2) Is there a discernible difference in the sound for the same speaker set clubbed with a more high-end AVR which has better parts? Will the RX-V4A perform WAY WAY better than the HTR 2071? And if so, in what terms? Timbre and quality of sound? Loudness etc.?
3) Yamaha has something called Virtual Cinema Front in the AVR, through which one can add surrounds and put them in the front (if there are space issues)? Has anyone tried that mode and have any reviews for the same?

Thanks for all the help and advice. Sorry if I missed something completely basic.
Shaan

 

[DB1989]

I am trying to budget this out optimally for now. So let me outline what I had in mind.

I was thinking of buying a cheap AVR for starters, and then adding good quality speakers for L,C,R and sub (basically a 3.1). I want to have the experience of a discreet centre channel for dialogues. I can't manage surrounds for now, because there isn't space in the room for the same. My sitting position is against a wall and I can't convince the partner to have so much wiring all over for now. I thought that the addition of a centre channel and a good sub will give an added oomph to my current setup. Plus, with a 5.1 AVR, I can upgrade the setup with surrounds in the future.

With that thought, I looked at options. The first option I found was the Yamaha HTR 2071 available with a Home theatre package for around 31k. I wasn't really interested in the speakers and the sub of this package (the YHT 1840) but thought that the cheapest 5.1 AVR I could find individually would still be upwards of 40k.
(By the way, just as an aside, what the hell is up with these prices. I see past posts on the forum dating 6 months back and the costs were way lesser. Things retailing for 45k are now straight 10k higher. Is there any scope for prices to go down in the future with the semiconductor situation getting better?)

Don't do it!

I Would have wholeheartedly suggested a cheap (rather, used to be) AVR such as the Marantz NR1509 or the like which was available for some 27K two years ago but that is no longer an option.

Cheap AVRs that come bundled with surround sound packages have just about enough fidelity and power to drive the accompanying speakers. Ask any more of them, especially with better speakers, and they usually falter.

considering you aren't certain about when is it that you'll get surrounds or for that matter, move into a new apartment, I'd advise you to go with a decent stereo amp and put off the purchase of the AVR to when you can actually manage the entire ensemble i.e. both a new room and the entire 5.1 package.

The prices should also rationalize by then. The increase in HT prices was not only the semiconductor shortage but also the pandemic which meant no more movie theatres, compelling everyone to get an HT at home.

The following are the specs of the HTR 2071. Yes, it doesn't have Bluetooth and DTS-x and YPAO and many other features, which I am currently ok with. I may get a Bluetooth adapter to play music on top.

• --- 70 W per Channel (6 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 0.09% THD, 2-ch driven)
• --- 100 W per Channel (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.9% THD, 1-ch driven)
• --- 135 W per Channel (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 10% THD, 1-ch driven)
• HDMI® (4 in / 1 out) with 4K Ultra HD full support (4K / 60p [4:4:4]), HDR Video and BT.2020

More here - https://asia-latinamerica-mea.yamah..._visual/av_receivers_amps/htr-2071/index.html

Don't get swayed by the Specs.

For instance, my Marantz PM6006 with 50W into 8ohms sounds better than my Marantz SR6013 with 105W into 8 ohms.

Now, my question is about power and amplification. With this AVR, I was thinking of powering some good speakers. Not fully researched them yet, but the initial contenders are (just to give you an idea of what I am going for)

1) QA 3020is with the QA 3090 centre. And a decent active sub, maybe the Yamaha NSW100. (Approx. total cost 70k). This would make my total budget 1L.
The 3020i has recommended AV receiver power of 50 to 75W for 2 channels. Considering the HTR is a 70W powered (2ch) AVR, do you think they would shine? The 3090 centre has recommended AV receiver power at 50 to 165W. At a 100W per channel power from the 2071, will they shine?

No.

(This is where my noob-ness shines. I don't actually know this matching stuff a 100%, just surface level and theoretical, since I've never owned a hi-fi).

2) Polk T15s with Polk T30 centre. And an active sub.

These speakers are no longer relevant in today's market.

I have a few more ideas but more on that later when I research more thoroughly.

The other AVR option I have is a straight 20k or 30k jump for the Denon 550BT (Around 50k) or the Yamaha RXv4A (60k). Am I right in thinking that it's prudent to save the money on the AVR and invest them in good speakers for now? Because some of the other features on the more expensive AVRs are not really of use to me. So my key questions are:
1) Future-proofing aside, is the HTR 2071 good enough to power this range of speakers at a listening distance of 8 feet for movies. Music listening is minimal on the above setup and if at all, it'd just be for background listening or (more actively) watching music videos off Youtube.

No.

2) Is there a discernible difference in the sound for the same speaker set clubbed with a more high-end AVR which has better parts? Will the RX-V4A perform WAY WAY better than the HTR 2071? And if so, in what terms? Timbre and quality of sound? Loudness etc.?
3) Yamaha has something called Virtual Cinema Front in the AVR, through which one can add surrounds and put them in the front (if there are space issues)? Has anyone tried that mode and have any reviews for the same?

Don't know about Yamaha models specifically but yes, dedicated AVRs are usually far superior to bundled ones on the SQ front. The one that you have shortlisted isn't particularly strong on the features front either.

Thanks for all the help and advice. Sorry if I missed something completely basic.
Shaan

Imho, you should get a stereo amp and put off the AVR to a later date.

You can get a good centre image (phantom centre) and better dialogue clarity from two bookshelf driven by a nice stereo amp than with dedicated a centre channel with a so-so AVR.

If you were in Delhi, i would've invited you over to checkout what a stereo amp can do for movies and dialogue. I can guarantee you'll never be able to tell, not once, whether the centre channel is engaged or not.

 

[DB1989]

I was thinking of buying a cheap AVR for starters, and then adding good quality speakers for L,C,R and sub (basically a 3.1). I want to have the experience of a discreet centre channel for dialogues. I can't manage surrounds for now, because there isn't space in the room for the same. My sitting position is against a wall and I can't convince the partner to have so much wiring all over for now. I thought that the addition of a centre channel and a good sub will give an added oomph to my current setup. Plus, with a 5.1 AVR, I can upgrade the setup with surrounds in the future.

To elucidate further since my previous comment was rather concise and to address the real issue here i.e. "experience of a discreet centre channel for dialogues", i would actually go on so far as to say that dialogues through a stereo pair can be clearer and nicer sounding than that playing through a center channel.

One might ask "why???" to which, my answer would be entirely circumstantial i.e. we have far more flexibility with placement of speakers.

First of, all speakers are sensitive to positioning (especially the ones you have shortlisted) unless they were meant to be wall mounted or kept on a desk specifically. Therefore, positioning is critical to get a decent sound (one can acceptable results through room correction - which is not an option insofar as the AVR selected is concerned).

For positioning, the easiest and most commonplace method is to employ stands for bookshelf speakers (or mini side tables as I have though resonance control isnt particularly good). Through proper positioning which isn't difficult to nail (get stands which correspond to your seating height i.e. your ears should ideally be between the tweeter and mid-bass driver when seated), you can get a rock solid centre image and a fantastic soundstage where you will be able to pin point.

On the other hand, we usually relegate the Centre Channel to the media console/shelf upon which the TV/gear sits. This may or may not be an optimal distance from the wall for that particular speaker, neither the optimal height relative to your seating position (which can be solved through adjusting rake angle), not to mention resonance control (which is crucial in dialogue clarity) depending on the build/material of the centre console/shelf. I am yet to see anybody employ a stand for the centre channel and it looks incongruous with most decors/living spaces unless one has a dedicated media room and/or is willing to face the wrath of their better half.

The fact that you don't have room correction with this particular AVR makes it a terrible choice since it will fall short on the SQ front (presumptive, i know) and cannot compensate for it with EQ.

 

[mesopystic]

To elucidate further since my previous comment was rather concise and to address the real issue here i.e. "experience of a discreet centre channel for dialogues", i would actually go on so far as to say that dialogues through a stereo pair can be clearer and nicer sounding than that playing through a center channel.

One might ask "why???" to which, my answer would be entirely circumstantial i.e. we have far more flexibility with placement of speakers.

First of, all speakers are sensitive to positioning (especially the ones you have shortlisted) unless they were meant to be wall mounted or kept on a desk specifically. Therefore, positioning is critical to get a decent sound (one can acceptable results through room correction - which is not an option insofar as the AVR selected is concerned).

For positioning, the easiest and most commonplace method is to employ stands for bookshelf speakers (or mini side tables as I have though resonance control isnt particularly good). Through proper positioning which isn't difficult to nail (get stands which correspond to your seating height i.e. your ears should ideally be between the tweeter and mid-bass driver when seated), you can get a rock solid centre image and a fantastic soundstage where you will be able to pin point.

On the other hand, we usually relegate the Centre Channel to the media console/shelf upon which the TV/gear sits. This may or may not be an optimal distance from the wall for that particular speaker, neither the optimal height relative to your seating position (which can be solved through adjusting rake angle), not to mention resonance control (which is crucial in dialogue clarity) depending on the build/material of the centre console/shelf. I am yet to see anybody employ a stand for the centre channel and it looks incongruous with most decors/living spaces unless one has a dedicated media room and/or is willing to face the wrath of their better half.

The fact that you don't have room correction with this particular AVR makes it a terrible choice since it will fall short on the SQ front (presumptive, i know) and cannot compensate for it with EQ.

Thanks for your very detailed and thoughtful explanations. Really appreciate. And I'd gladly take you up on your offer of checking out your stereo setups, if and when I am in Delhi.

I actually do have a decent stereo set up right now, though with older Technics SB LX5 Floorstanders and a local MOSFET amp (which I'd be upgrading too, once I move this setup to another room). I would need to move them inside since they are a bit bulky (and the partner would like a more minimal and elegant setup in the TV area). I don't really have much of an issue with dialogues right now, it's optimal based on the setup, though I'd only know if it gets better with some more adjustments to the height which I'll make sure to do considering all your positioning ideas.

Your insight on the Centre channel and its often-incorrect positioning are also very helpful. I'd keep that in mind whenever I upgrade. I have to say though that the few great HT setups I've heard, the Centre, and the vocal clarity really blew my mind. And so did the addition of a good sub and the overall immersion experience. I am willing to dodge surrounds for a while until I can have that kind of a setup, but I am excited to add these 2 components to the setup.

So for a more dedicated AVR, I was wondering if the Yamaha RX V4A is a good choice (it's got many good reviews...Andrew Robinson likes it, etc.) I might have to reduce the budget for my speaker choices and then gradually upgrade over time (Basically I was thinking of spending 30k on the HTIB AVR and 70k on speakers, now will be spending 60k on AVR and 40-45k on speakers). The Yamaha has YPAO room correction in this version. Any thoughts on YPAO?

The other 2 choices I have are the DENON X550BT (50k) and the Marantz NR 1510 (70k..I mean what the hell is that price). My overall budget is sacrosanct at 1L for now and maybe will spend some more a few months down the line. I wish I could find a good used AVR, but nothing is available just yet and I'd just have to wait. If anyone's heard of good AVRs on sale, I'd be happy to consider them.

Also, on an aside, a very noob question: when you connect an active sub to the pre-out of the AVR and don't connect any back surrounds, does it perform better w.r.t power per channel for the L, C, and R?

 

[DB1989]

Thanks for your very detailed and thoughtful explanations. Really appreciate. And I'd gladly take you up on your offer of checking out your stereo setups, if and when I am in Delhi.

I actually do have a decent stereo set up right now, though with older Technics SB LX5 Floorstanders and a local MOSFET amp (which I'd be upgrading too, once I move this setup to another room). I would need to move them inside since they are a bit bulky (and the partner would like a more minimal and elegant setup in the TV area).

Is it this particular model?

Technics SB-LX50 specs, manual & images

Technics SB-LX50

www.hifispeaker.wiki

How's the imaging and what is the soundstage like for these speakers?

Your insight on the Centre channel and its often-incorrect positioning are also very helpful. I'd keep that in mind whenever I upgrade. I have to say though that the few great HT setups I've heard, the Centre, and the vocal clarity really blew my mind. And so did the addition of a good sub and the overall immersion experience. I am willing to dodge surrounds for a while until I can have that kind of a setup, but I am excited to add these 2 components to the setup.

In that case, guess I've never heard a great HT setup!

But generally speaking, if you have a treated HT room, centre channel or not, the sound will be crisp and spectacular (if the treatment has been done right of course! Plenty of caveats in this hobby).

So for a more dedicated AVR, I was wondering if the Yamaha RX V4A is a good choice (it's got many good reviews...Andrew Robinson likes it, etc.) I might have to reduce the budget for my speaker choices and then gradually upgrade over time (Basically I was thinking of spending 30k on the HTIB AVR and 70k on speakers, now will be spending 60k on AVR and 40-45k on speakers). The Yamaha has YPAO room correction in this version. Any thoughts on YPAO?

I don't have any experience with YPAO but according to pundit speak, it's apparently the least accomplished (though not bad) amongst the myriad room correction options.

Also, on an aside, a very noob question: when you connect an active sub to the pre-out of the AVR and don't connect any back surrounds, does it perform better w.r.t power per channel for the L, C, and R?

It ought to ideally and it does insofar as my AVR is concerned. Again, I've personally never tried gauging the difference in the specific scenario that you have mentioned i.e. only LCR engaged vs 7.2.2.

However, i often listen in stereo through my AVR and the sound with only two speakers playing sounds meatier and more dynamic than when all speakers are engaged in multi stereo i.e. the LR channel of a stereo track playing back through all 9 speakers.

 

[ssf]

Also, on an aside, a very noob question: when you connect an active sub to the pre-out of the AVR and don't connect any back surrounds, does it perform better w.r.t power per channel for the L, C, and R?

Since the subwoofer has it's own amp, it is not going to tax the receiver and should not make a difference with the number
of speakers connected.

However, the more number of channels is connected and played by the AVR, the lesser its output per channel will be. On a good receiver, this should not be a concern in our normal living rooms and our normal listening levels.

Edit: If I were in our position, I would get the best LR speakers in my budget and pair it with a stereo amp. It will any day beat an entry level receiver with a average LCR. A good LR will beat an average center channel speaker in terms of clarity and musicality. Center channel is useful if your seating is distributed in which case it will anchor the dialogues to the center no matter where you are seated. If you are going to be seated in front of your speakers, get the best LR you can afford.

Adding a subwoofer to the above will make a noticeable difference for movies.