novice question on tone controls

[Tanoj]

If you feel your other components are ok then cables can be used to fine tune that system but not tuning in a massive way, whenever possible I just want to avoid any active circuits to make any alteration of signals. So to my opinion cable is much safer way to fine tune any system along with placement and room treatment.

+ 1 to this, i also wanted to convey that cables cab be helpful to fine tune.

Regards

Tanoj

 

[IndianEars]

I am mainly concerned with the reviews of Alpair 7p dirvers that i have purchased. These are relatively news models and when i ordered not much reviews were there, i went with it seeing good reviews of metal version alpair 7.3 and other mark audio paper drivers.
I have received the drivers a couple of weeks ago.
But now in the reviews, the Alpair 7p seems to be having as they say more brighter and has more forward presentation, they were preferring the popular alpar 7.3 (metal version) over this alpair 7p (paper version).

So looking for a preamp/amp which would compensate the bright sounding alpair 7p...
or checking if tone controls would help in this regard ??

My 1st Recommended line of action would be to reposition the speakers so that they do not fire directly to your head in the listening position.

Toe them out ie let the speakers point approx to the wall in front of them, and only Slightly angled in the direction of the listening position.

The angle off from the Straight Ahead position can be experimented and any angle from Zero Degrees to 30 degrees will be OK.

The 'Toe-Out' will also provide you a much wider sound stage.

Also Zero cost !

Cheers !

 

[thampi]

i certainly prefer tone control.a lot of choice especially when playing mp3 recordings with low bitrate

 

[sarathssca]

I have looked for tone control circuits with opamps in web, but mostly found circuits with tone control opamp in inverting stage, and use another inverting opamp buffer before or after it, to get the signal to original phase.
eg. Hi-Fi Preamplifier

For the preamp , I am looking for a buffer opamp stage (SSP) followed by a switch which will be used to select to connect to output or to tone control opamp stage. So making the tone control optional, and only use it in signal path , when it is needed.

But when we are switching on to use the tone control stage, as here the tone control opamp is inverting stage, then we need another output inverting buffer to make the single in phase again. So, while using tone controls can we avoid the output buffer stage which is needed only to invert the signal because of the inverting tone control stage? Can we have tone controls opamp in non-inverting stage?
Else the first buffer opamp (SSP) needs to be in non-inverting stage, which will compensate for inverting tone control stage, but when we are switching off the tone control stage the output from the first buffer stage (SSP) will be inverting again.

thanks and regards
S Sarath

 

[reubensm]

All the points mentioned in reply to your post are very valid and absolutely spot on.

There are many hotly debated topics in hi-fi and this is one of them. In my opinion, it all comes down to personal choice. If you like tone controls, use them. If you don't, either omit, by-pass or simple turn them to flat position. Not a bad idea to have them (and use them as appropriate) as mastering of recorded music varies and you may need to compensate here and there. If you are used to listening to music with tonal colouration (boosted highs, lows or mids) then tone controls are a must.

Many make the mistake of trying to achieve perfection, recreate the sound of a recording studio monitor, recreate a brass band playing live, etc. My take has always been - its not about how music should sound, its about how I like to listen to it

hello,

one doubt regarding tone controls, may be very novice/basic..
Why most of diy amps/preamps in the forums dont have any tone controls?
Are they not preferred in the audio signal path?
The preamps mostly have only volume control only and not tone controls / equalizers.

Suppose if the speakers have brighter highs (as people say for speakers which produce louder or more prominent in high frequencies ), what is a better approach:
1. add a tone control circuit with the preamp
2. search a amp/preamp which have weaker high frequencies, to compensate

thanks and regards
S Sarath

 

[Sumanta]

Right from the singer's throat condition that day, age of that Guitar strings, brand and quality of that condenser microphone (or other type) in that recording room, the brand and quality of the monitor that the sound engineer uses, ratio of understanding to mis-understanding of music composer's requirement by the sound engineer to the ultimate receiver, yes, my ear, there could be thousands of link in a chain which can change the final reproduction of a music.

I never ever can be assured that I am listening to the original, as there never is any pure original sound. Music playing in a misty and cloudy mountain sounds different than in a MSL crowded city.

So, it is purely personal liking.

And for that I prefer my equalizer. I check but whether that equalizer is degrading and/or adding noise or not in the final part of the reproduction keeping other links constant.

I would suggest not to keep tone control in the pre, rather get a good (non corrupting) equalizer. The sound engineer used one, so forget about purity, you can use one too.

After all music is to enjoy, personally.
You are the last tone control of the long chain of tone controls.

 

[Nikhil]

How does a sound engineer factor in how your speakers are placed in your room?
Balance controls is something sorely needed in my opinion.

In general however, tone controls for bass and treble interfere with the sound so most designs now eliminate them altogether. However quite a few of the entry level receivers have them which I think is a good thing.

Another reason although unrelated is the use of DSP on a computer based system. Using sophisticated algorithms you one can now use filters to adjust for many room conditions on a computer leaving the tone controls obsolete on the amp. In which case leave them out altogether to give a simple clean path to the signal.

 

[sarathssca]

I have looked for tone control circuits with opamps in web, but mostly found circuits with tone control opamp in inverting stage, and use another inverting opamp buffer before or after it, to get the signal to original phase.
eg. Hi-Fi Preamplifier

For the preamp , I am looking for a buffer opamp stage (SSP) followed by a switch which will be used to select to connect to output or to tone control opamp stage. So making the tone control optional, and only use it in signal path , when it is needed.

But when we are switching on to use the tone control stage, as here the tone control opamp is inverting stage, then we need another output inverting buffer to make the single in phase again. So, while using tone controls can we avoid the output buffer stage which is needed only to invert the signal because of the inverting tone control stage? Can we have tone controls opamp in non-inverting stage?
Else the first buffer opamp (SSP) needs to be in non-inverting stage, which will compensate for inverting tone control stage, but when we are switching off the tone control stage the output from the first buffer stage (SSP) will be inverting again.

thanks and regards
S Sarath

Please suggest about above problem...
I am thinking to have preamp, with tone control optional, by selecting tone control stage with a switch when needed.

 

[tnvijay]

@sarath,
ROD ELLIOT project 97 has a good tone defeat function. you can adapt that idea to any existing baxandall op amp tone control.
Regarding absolute phase, IMHO, as long as you maintain symmetry between left and right, dont bother about the soundstsge or imaging. Phase maintaining is quiet debatable in hifi.

 

[somakmaitra]

Hi
In our Indian living room tone controls are needed, to correct room odd responses.Else you can use a calibration mic to check the room response and make corrections. You can get very affordable tone controls from Diyaudiocart or eight audio .I have tried both and both are good else you can build it on a verro .But chances of cross talk remains .I also have the HIFI preamp from ROD which I have not completed.
Regards
Somak