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OLED Vs QLED

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captrajesh

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A friend of mine is looking to replace his LED TV to the latest OLED 55" or 65" display. However, having read about the Samsung's latest range of QLED TVs, he is now confused as to which way to go.

From what little research I did on the web, I understand that the Quantum Dot Light Emitting Diode is an emerging technology and hasn't matured yet, though a promising one. It is said to offer more brightness levels and blacks as good as the OLED ones.

Having said that which is purely theoretical at this point of time, the Samsung's QLED TVs are said to just better the conventional displays and are not a match to the OLED TVs atleast in the contrast levels and black levels.

Though it's a no brainer as to which one to recommend, I thought I'll start a thread for comments and opinions of more informed members of the forum. I leave the forum open for comments and more importantly, additional information.
 

mandeep

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A friend of mine is looking to replace his LED TV to the latest OLED 55" or 65" display. However, having read about the Samsung's latest range of QLED TVs, he is now confused as to which way to go.

From what little research I did on the web, I understand that the Quantum Dot Light Emitting Diode is an emerging technology and hasn't matured yet, though a promising one. It is said to offer more brightness levels and blacks as good as the OLED ones.

Having said that which is purely theoretical at this point of time, the Samsung's QLED TVs are said to just better the conventional displays and are not a match to the OLED TVs atleast in the contrast levels and black levels.

Though it's a no brainer as to which one to recommend, I thought I'll start a thread for comments and opinions of more informed members of the forum. I leave the forum open for comments and more importantly, additional information.
HDR require a minimum of 1500 nits of brightness for optimum performance in picture quality, which is a rarity in OLED panels as of now, thats why Samsung is aggressive in bringing the cost effective, highly bright edgelit panels for the masses. Their series seven edgelit tv's are real good for HDR. DOLBY VISION, requires a minimum of 4000 nits to be of real value. Samsung series 7 is not QLED with quantum dots, but does feature HDR1000 for better picture and doesn't cost much, SONY 900 SERIES is also good. Personally i will steer clear of OLED as of now as they do lack the requisite brightness levels. But if you are not bothered about HDR then an OLED is much better any way.
 

captrajesh

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HDR require a minimum of 1500 nits of brightness for optimum performance in picture quality, which is a rarity in OLED panels as of now, thats why Samsung is aggressive in bringing the cost effective, highly bright edgelit panels for the masses. Their series seven edgelit tv's are real good for HDR. DOLBY VISION, requires a minimum of 4000 nits to be of real value. Samsung series 7 is not QLED with quantum dots, but does feature HDR1000 for better picture and doesn't cost much, SONY 900 SERIES is also good. Personally i will steer clear of OLED as of now as they do lack the requisite brightness levels. But if you are not bothered about HDR then an OLED is much better any way.
Thanks for the interesting information Mandeep. Wiki says:
High-dynamic-range imaging (HDRI) is a high dynamic range (HDR) technique used in imaging and photography to reproduce a greater dynamic range of luminosity than is possible with standard digital imaging or photographic techniques.
If I understood the issue correctly, as far as HDR is concerned, contrast levels are as important as the brightness isn't it? You have quoted some figures on the minimum brightness that's required for HDR. Could you link me to the source of that information so that I can bit more reading about the issue?
 

mandeep

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Thanks for the interesting information Mandeep. Wiki says:
If I understood the issue correctly, as far as HDR is concerned, contrast levels are as important as the brightness isn't it? You have quoted some figures on the minimum brightness that's required for HDR. Could you link me to the source of that information so that I can bit more reading about the issue?

Dolby Vision content is mastered for 10,000 nits peak brightness. But at the moment, no TV can support this, so content is actually mastered to around 4,000 nits.

HDR or more specifically HDR10 holds to a lower standard of video quality than Dolby Vision, mastering content at 1,000 nits of brightness compared to Dolby Vision's theoretical 10,000-nit limit.

So as for now, buy tv with at least HDR1500 rating, because real world peak brightness is quite low. Please visit https://www.rtings.com/
For some real world brightness figures
More information :-
www.theverge.com/2017/1/5/14180456/hdr-formats-hdr10-dolby-vision-hlg-advanced-ces-2017
 

reignofchaos

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Dolby Vision content is mastered for 10,000 nits peak brightness. But at the moment, no TV can support this, so content is actually mastered to around 4,000 nits.

The peak brightness is a meaningless figure just like PMPO used to be in audio long time ago. Most UHD Blurays (barring Batman vs Superman - Ben Affleck's white suit) don't even get to 1000 nits peak brightness. What really matters is how good is the tonemapping algorithm of the TV and how well does the TV preserve highlight detail. In both those things, the LG OLEDs do a better job than anything else out there simply because they do not clip highlight detail and try to preserve the same by tonemapping. Also the LGs are the only ones which have something called "Active HDR" where the display processor actually looks at the static metadata in the HDR10 content and adapts its tonemapping algorithm akin to Dolby Vision (maybe not as good) on the fly for static metadata content. Every other TV does plain static HDR with HDR10 content which is not a great tonemapping algorithm. If you really want the brightest TV out there, it is the Sony ZD9/Z9D but even Sony thinks it is inferior to their own Sony A1 which uses an LG OLED panel.

As for the Samsungs - QLED is marketing spiel - it is nothing but an LED edge lit LCD display. The primary issues with the samsungs are :-

(i) Poor contrast performance in both SDR and HDR content compared to OLEDs as edge lit LCDs will never be able to match OLEDs in this regard. Neither can local dimming LCDs for that matter.
(ii) It does not support Dolby Vision and HLG and they never will support the same as Samsung and Panasonic are planning to launch a new standard called HDR10+ which plans to incorporate dynamic metadata in HDR10 standard
(iii) It has poor input lag performance in case you wish to connect a PC/XBox One X/PS4 Pro

Don't trust my word - trust the experts in this - http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/category/reviews

Vincent Teoh is an ISF certified professional and does TV reviews for a living.
 

mandeep

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The peak brightness is a meaningless figure just like PMPO used to be in audio long time ago. Most UHD Blurays (barring Batman vs Superman - Ben Affleck's white suit) don't even get to 1000 nits peak brightness. What really matters is how good is the tonemapping algorithm of the TV and how well does the TV preserve highlight detail. In both those things, the LG OLEDs do a better job than anything else out there simply because they do not clip highlight detail and try to preserve the same by tonemapping. Also the LGs are the only ones which have something called "Active HDR" where the display processor actually looks at the static metadata in the HDR10 content and adapts its tonemapping algorithm akin to Dolby Vision (maybe not as good) on the fly for static metadata content. Every other TV does plain static HDR with HDR10 content which is not a great tonemapping algorithm. If you really want the brightest TV out there, it is the Sony ZD9/Z9D but even Sony thinks it is inferior to their own Sony A1 which uses an LG OLED panel.

As for the Samsungs - QLED is marketing spiel - it is nothing but an LED edge lit LCD display. The primary issues with the samsungs are :-

(i) Poor contrast performance in both SDR and HDR content compared to OLEDs as edge lit LCDs will never be able to match OLEDs in this regard. Neither can local dimming LCDs for that matter.
(ii) It does not support Dolby Vision and HLG and they never will support the same as Samsung and Panasonic are planning to launch a new standard called HDR10+ which plans to incorporate dynamic metadata in HDR10 standard
(iii) It has poor input lag performance in case you wish to connect a PC/XBox One X/PS4 Pro

Don't trust my word - trust the experts in this - http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/category/reviews

Vincent Teoh is an ISF certified professional and does TV reviews for a living.

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c7-oled comments on two new features for the 2017 LG OLEDs:
1) HDR effect
2) Active HDR with Dolby Vision. Can you explain in simple terms what Active HDR with DV does? If I'm interpreting things correctly, it effectively turns a static HDR source (such as HDR 10) to an equivalent of a dynamic source like Dolby Vision. In other words, it "upgrades" HDR10 content to something closer to a Dolby Vision level of content.
Are these two new features valuable in your opinion?

The HDR Effect picture mode attempts to turn SDR content into HDR content, by radically changing the picture's gamma curve and oversaturating colors near the edge of the SDR gamut. This is similar to Samung's "HDR+ Mode". We don't recommend using it as it makes content quite different from what the creator intended, but some people may prefer it.
It's unclear what Active HDR does, most of the information about it is just marketing jargon. There's no setting on the C7 to disable it so it likely doesn't do much.

Update 9/4/2017: LG has released a calibration document for its 2017 OLEDs that gives more information on the 'Active HDR' feature:

"LG’s 'Active HDR' function analyses content on a frame by frame basis in real time, to determine metadata for the scene. This information is then used to adjust the HDR tone-curve to match the content, on a frame by frame basis. Control of the 'Active HDR' feature is found in the 'Dynamic Contrast' setting in the Expert Picture Settings menu. In HDR mode, the Dynamic Contrast settings are defined as follows:

Off - Active HDR Disabled / Contrast Enhancement Disabled
Low - Active HDR Enabled / Contrast Enhancement Disabled
Medium - Active HDR Enabled / Contrast Enhancement Low
High - Active HDR Enabled / Contrast Enhancement High

The default setting of ‘Low’ is recommended for accurate content reproduction."

We don't expect 'Active HDR' to improve picture quality very much, only reducing banding and increasing detail a little by more efficiently using its bits of information.

Don't base your judgement on online reviews only, use them as a starting point, but make your final decision by seeing the Tv set in person and probably with your own content
 

reignofchaos

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Don't base your judgement on online reviews only, use them as a starting point, but make your final decision by seeing the Tv set in person and probably with your own content

I have an LG 55G6T at my parents' place so I know what I am talking about. This tv has a lower ABL cut off than the current gen but still looks fabulous simply cos of how good the blacks and color purity are. None of the Samsungs are in the same league - be it HDR or SDR. OLEDs are the future whether you like it or not. Else Sony and Panasonic wouldn't have rushed to build flagship TVs based on LG panels.
 

mandeep

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I have an LG 55G6T at my parents' place so I know what I am talking about. This tv has a lower ABL cut off than the current gen but still looks fabulous simply cos of how good the blacks and color purity are. None of the Samsungs are in the same league - be it HDR or SDR. OLEDs are the future whether you like it or not. Else Sony and Panasonic wouldn't have rushed to build flagship TVs based on LG panels.
You are the Guru bro', nobody denies that :) :) we all are here to learn, not to force our opinion on each other, you like OLED Tv's, even i like them. Everyone here puts forward their own experiences, one can be wrong, its upto you how you interpret them.
 

mandeep

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I have an LG 55G6T at my parents' place so I know what I am talking about. This tv has a lower ABL cut off than the current gen but still looks fabulous simply cos of how good the blacks and color purity are. None of the Samsungs are in the same league - be it HDR or SDR. OLEDs are the future whether you like it or not. Else Sony and Panasonic wouldn't have rushed to build flagship TVs based on LG panels.
No wonder, members do get baised towards the products they own, now whether you like it or not, this is what '4k.com' says about LG G6 "the G6 is still well behind the new 2016 HDR LCD TVs in terms of how many nits it outputs. 540+ nits (up to almost 600 or so) is remarkably good brightness for OLED technology, similar to the brightness of many 2014 and 2015 LCD 4K TVs but it’s less than half the luminance that 2016’s HDR LCD models like the Samsung SUHD TVs and Sony’s new Bravia models are capable of. This is compensated for by an extraordinarily deep perfect black capacity but for realism, raw peak brightness is a crucial technology. If OLED can’t go brighter still down the road, it will start to lag behind the eventual arrival of 2,000+ nit LCD TVs as they almost certainly emerge."
 
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