Paper cones vs Metal cones

[anm]

Hi,

Are paper cone speakers (like Dali Ikon 6) more fragile compared to metal cones (like MA RS6)? Could metals domes better survive challenges of kids playing around and killing a speaker by poking something sharp (how sharp is another question - but let's assume a pencil)?

regards

 

[soundsgreat]

Hi,

Well this is new !! let me try to shed some light on this !!


Before I begin let me just try to understand the question properly,This is in no way related to sound reproduction of the driver whose material is under scrutiny here before or after the damage !! if this is what you are implying with your questions then here's the answer !! if not please do rephrase the question !!

So here we go !

The paper cones are sometimes very rigid compared to the metal cones for various reasons !! one the very basic tech part,"THE MASS OF THE CONE" different companies believes in different theories !! some believe that the mass has to be lesser for appropriate sound reproduction while other believe that it has to be bit heaver ! so in general the paper cone has multilayer's when compared to the metal cones ! hence are bit more strong when it comes to physical construction ! having said that I also will say that some metal cones are thicker and stronger then paper even though they are just a single layer ( Confusing ??? well it gets better) !! in this particular case the metal cones are the winners of abuse test (if there is one ) !!

Also in general since the metal is bit stronger in terms of tensile strength etc even in comparison to multiple layers of paper or similar material,it is hence the much stronger when it comes to taking abuse ! though here the word abuse can have different meaning !!

Hope this enough !! as if I go deeper you'll get bored !!

As you said if one were to poke the cones with a sharp object the metal cones may deform rather then allow the abject to go through creating a small hole in the cone !! where as an average paper cone easily gets punctured making a small hole !! now how this affects sound is another matter which is out of scope of this topic hence will not be dealt with !!

Now coming to the Tweeter part ! here the winner is absolutely the soft dome or non metal when compared to metal ! as most of the metal domes are very very thin,Very very delicate and sensitive( forget poking just a very small presured touch can sometimes damage these metal domes) and its very easy to damage them !! thats why if you notice most of the manufacturers who use metal domes have protective cover of some sort making it bit difficult to directly access the dome ! so as far as the tweeter goes the non metal is best !!

Hope this answers your questions !! if not please feel free to elaborate the part which is still not clear to you so that I can try to attend it !

Regards.

 

[anm]

Doesn't matter what my question was. Your answer was an interesting read.
Yes, of course I want to compare the sound quality.
I am trying to decide between Dali Ikon 6 and Monitor Audio RS6 so just comparing from this angle as well.
I am thinking of buying a good pair of floor standers without a subwoofer. Have limited my budget to 60k.

 

[afj]

dont worry about it being paper or metal - a kid with a pencil will go through both. but i think you would be better off with metal. a slightly damaged cone should sound better than a cone with a hole in it. but with such expensive speakers the option is to keep your kid away. i;ve got two kids at home myself. in saying that the speakers (the cone coil unit) isnt the expensive part of the system - its the crossovers that are. so in case of it being damaged theyre not too expensive to replace

the reason why companies experiment / use different materials is to maintain rigidity throughout the cone. the sound waves are transmitted through the coil to the part where it is attached to the cone, which is closest the the centre. the waves then travel through the rest of the cone. if the cone isnt rigid (the part furthest from the centre moving with the same timing with the part closest to the centre) then clarity decreases.

i've got the ma rs6 and they're brilliant speakers. you cant go wrong with them. havent heard the ikons

 

[anm]

would it be worth buying them without audition?
Where did you buy it from and how was your experience with them? Did you ever need service/ repair etc?

 

[Nikhil]

would it be worth buying them without audition?
Where did you buy it from and how was your experience with them? Did you ever need service/ repair etc?

anm, I did not like the MA at all. May have been the setup but they came out sounding just bad.

 

[anm]

Nikhil pls share what did you find bad about them? Were too to bassy or were they too weak in the bass?
Or did they sound harsh?

anm, I did not like the MA at all. May have been the setup but they came out sounding just bad.

 

[afj]

would it be worth buying them without audition?
Where did you buy it from and how was your experience with them? Did you ever need service/ repair etc?

i would definitely recommend the rs6 without auditioning. i've listened to jbl, kef, paradigm, b&w speakers in the same range perhaps but the monitors were better. perhaps nikhil had a bad experience with it due to the rest of the set up - but i guess he;s best to comment on it. the rs6's dont pair well with bright amps - so no hk, rotel....so youre looking at the nad, cambridge, marantz. you would need a decent cdp as well if not the speakers will showcase the defects in the source.

i live in south africa and bought my set up here

 

[anm]

Did you try Dali Ikon or Dali Concept?

i would definitely recommend the rs6 without auditioning. i've listened to jbl, kef, paradigm, b&w speakers in the same range perhaps but the monitors were better. perhaps nikhil had a bad experience with it due to the rest of the set up - but i guess he;s best to comment on it. the rs6's dont pair well with bright amps - so no hk, rotel....so youre looking at the nad, cambridge, marantz. you would need a decent cdp as well if not the speakers will showcase the defects in the source.

i live in south africa and bought my set up here

 

[Sidharth Trehan]

Oh Dali Ikons are smooth.
Pick any from Ikon 5, 6, 7 or 8 ..they all grow on you and sound different as you go up the ladder ..but depends on your purpose & genre preference.

Ikon 5 is the smoothest and the most short n slim of all the four.
I picked Ikon 5 for my bed room, despite the fact that Ikon 6 & 5 are very close on price.. but Ikon 5 sounded ..like a caramel and is nearly invisible in my bedroom, so my wife has nothing to honk me about.

For a bedroom till size 15x12 ft , you can seriously consider the Ikon 5 ..else have can go for Ikon 6 onwards.


I had heard ..Quad, Wharfdale, Boston Acoustics etc .. but when i heard Dali ..i could hear nothing else ..cause i was just comparing every speaker with a Dali. I think Ikon series has the best to offer in a mid to upper segment listeners. Very musical indeed. And the more you play them.. the prettier they shall sound ..with every piano note whispering in your ears

...i so love mine.


Best wishes
a Dali fan!

 

[afj]

Did you try Dali Ikon or Dali Concept?

havent listened to dali

 

[anm]

I want them for my living room, which is larger at 20x30. However, seating position would not be farther than 12-13 ft from the front wall.

Dali Ikon 6 is at ~67k - already stretched budget
Dali Ikon 7 is at ~90k - can stretch in extreme case
Dali Ikon 8 is at ~130L - want this but too high for me.

I like the looks of large floorstanders so I would like to have either 7 or 8. But - would bass be great with ikon 7? If I need to buy a sub in any case, I might better buy ikon 6 and subwoofer instead of ikon 7.

So - would extra 23k be a good idea to spend on Ikon 7, or should this amount better be spent on sub?

 

[Sidharth Trehan]

I want them for my living room, which is larger at 20x30. However, seating position would not be farther than 12-13 ft from the front wall
............. So - would extra 23k be a good idea to spend on Ikon 7, or should this amount better be spent on sub?

Hi,
Considering the distance you shall be sitting from the screen & the size of the room. i feel you can rather look at Dali ikon 6 & 7 ..with a Dali Sub. That shall serve you just fine. But if you want then you can also look at Dali 8, but you can avoid it ..imho

but ...audition it yourself please.

ask your vendor to switch between ikon 6-7 ..for you to get a feel & understanding of the sound out put. With the sub, either shall work very well.
you could add on components for a 5.1 config whenever you want.

for Surrounds you can look at Dali Motifs, which are priced at around 50k per pair and available in white or black .. Motifs can be used as surround, rears & center channel as well.


brgs

 

[unleash_me]

If you budget can stretch like what you have mentioned, why not consider the excellent ProAc Studio 140?!

 

[afj]

anm
dont buy off reviews or specs. listen to the system before you buy. see how loud it plays. see what sort of bass you get out of it with / without the sub. specs sometimes cloud the issue. i've heard 120w speakers playing just as loud as those with double the output. you;ve decided on what you want. nows the easy part - of just how much you want. its about an extra low range driver or about a sub. if you really like your bass then a sub would definitely be better. but go to your dealer, take a few cds that youre familiar with and listen. you'll find it much easier to make up your mind that way

 

[anm]

unleash me - price/ dealer in delhi?
Do you have proacs?

regards

 

[unleash_me]

Contact Prithvi from Absolute Phase for the delhi dealers and pricing. I dont have it personally but have it in the family, ProAc Studio 140 and Primare CD31/I30.

If you can afford, go for it. I can vouch for the quality of music any day!

 

[Nikhil]

Nikhil pls share what did you find bad about them? Were too to bassy or were they too weak in the bass?
Or did they sound harsh?

Sorry to come in late on my reply. When I auditioned the MA RS6 I also listened to a pair of Mission 35i and 66i. Both were so much better to me with the 35i naturally more bassy. The reason I mention this is because its likely that my ears got dialed into the Missions. The RS6s were just lifeless and it could be what afj said about the setup. I don't know. However I then heard a pair of Quad 22Ls which were warm and simply in a different league in terms of detailing.

 

[anm]

Dali Ikon 8 is something I want to buy, but it is COMPLETELY out of my budget. So would be the proacs if they are 1L+

Contact Prithvi from Absolute Phase for the delhi dealers and pricing. I dont have it personally but have it in the family, ProAc Studio 140 and Primare CD31/I30.

If you can afford, go for it. I can vouch for the quality of music any day!

 

[Sidharth Trehan]

@ anm
There is no point looking at something that remains out of budget.
I adore their Euphonia series, but that remains way out of the budget and even if i get it.. i shall need to invest & contemplate buying a new house with about 2000 sqft space for the AV den

On a serious note..
- Did you look at Ikon 7? or Ikon 6?
- If not Ikon 6, Ikon 7 should suit your needs.
- Have you auditioned them yet?

brgs