B&W 683 5.1 theatre vs CM9 theatre for 221 sq.ft. bedroom?

[sivakuru]

Eddie:

I think you had mentioned that the front towers were bi-amped and you have provided the picture for the center. It is possible to bi-amp with receivers that have the capability and you dont necessarily need 2 separate physical amps for bi-amping. The engineer would have taken the fronts and possibly front height/wide or surround channels for the bi-amping. I think the AVR has to be made aware (via menu option) that the fronts are bi-amped (and possibly which channel has been used for the bi-amping). In my Pioneer 1121, in MCACC menu, I have set that the fronts are bi-amped, so there should be some similar setting on your AVR too.

 

[Eddierockks]

Eddie:

I think you had mentioned that the front towers were bi-amped and you have provided the picture for the center. It is possible to bi-amp with receivers that have the capability and you dont necessarily need 2 separate physical amps for bi-amping. The engineer would have taken the fronts and possibly front height/wide or surround channels for the bi-amping. I think the AVR has to be made aware (via menu option) that the fronts are bi-amped (and possibly which channel has been used for the bi-amping). In my Pioneer 1121, in MCACC menu, I have set that the fronts are bi-amped, so there should be some similar setting on your AVR too.

Sorry for my bad, I was talking about biwiring & biamping and posted the wrong picture of centre. Yes, as you mentioned that my engineer has taken the fronts and connected them thru front wide channels. I think that is what he did. Anyways, I will check it and get back to you with more info shortly. Any idea on how to check it on the Denon 4520? I have planned to run Audyssey Multi EQ XT 32 once I get back home tonight. Would my AVR be able to detect the biamping or biwiring that has been done to the fronts? Appreciate the help, thanks.

 

[navin advani]

This is the main problem now Navin.

Yes, I know. Expect those pictures soon here after I am done moving them around for the best placement.

Where in that picture will the towers go?

 

[sivakuru]

Eddie:

I dont know about 4520 menu options but there should be something similar to "System settings". In my MCACC menu, under system settings, I see there is an option for the front speaker mode/settings and I had it changed to bi-amped. Similarly in 4520, you should have an option where you should be able to set speaker level, crossover etc. In this you should have an option to set the front speaker mode to bi-amp. Refer your manual, it might give you a clue.

 

[sivakuru]

Eddie:

Your center also could be bi-amped/bi-wired as there are 2 sets of terminals. If ever you plan to bi-amp/bi-wire the speaker, please make sure you remove the metal piece that connects the terminals. I am sure your engineer would have removed the metal piece connecting the terminals for your fronts when he bi-amped those.

 

[Eddierockks]

Where in that picture will the towers go?

As I mentioned in my previous post, the designer has omitted the place for towers and sub by putting storage cabinets on each side. I would have to remove them and only get a cabinet for AV equipment in the middle. I'm also considering that in the av cabinet, one option is that I would have shelves acting as base for equipment to be placed upon which will open from left right and top. This would enable me to easily access the wires hooked up on various devices and change or switch them with ease if there's a need. This would also provide air flow to the equipment.
Second option by my carpenter is to have an av cabinet as per the picture only in the middle of the tv wall but with rollers at the bottom of each shelf as it would enable me to pull out any equipment or device out with ease. I'm guessing with the avr weighing 20 kilos, it will be mighty tough job for the shelf to handle. I personally like the first option. What do you say?

 

[deep_blues]

If its only you're dressing area behind that wall, can't you just knock it off & incorporate it in your room. It will take care of the door & you will have a wider area to play with.
Congrats on the new set up though, looks awesome!!

 

[deep_blues]

Sry buddy, just read that its your bedroom & that your married too so no ways that dressing area's going anywhere. Good luck & I'm sure you wont go wrong with this set-up.

 

[navin advani]

As I mentioned in my previous post, the designer has omitted the place for towers and sub by putting storage cabinets on each side.

I would have shelves acting as base for equipment to be placed upon which will open from left right and top.

What do you say?

I say you got a tough job. You need to redesign the cabinet. The current one has no room for servicing. The AVR must be on top as it will produce most heat. Eddie did you not plan the system before making the cabinet? Anyway what's done is done.

a. If the towers are going to flank the TV the left tower (looking at the TV) will be in a corner which is not good. Also you really did not need a center but now that you got one lets use it. The CM9 is 8" wide so the 9" you have on the right is the minimum you will need. Remember you will have to pull the speaker forward to wire it and push it back. When you push it back the wire will tangle behind the speaker. You will need access behind the left speaker to move the wires so that the speaker goes into it's location neatly and nicely.

b. the center section is 66" wide. Lets break this into 3 sections of 21" (63").

c. First have a set of 6-8 drawers of 7" width and 12" height as the lowest level, this will store DVDs. If you need CD storage make the drawers 6" height and 2 levels. If you want a PC then make it 3 or 4 drawers and the rest of the space can be used for a PC kept sideways. The top of the drawers will be the bottom of the next shelf.

d. The next shelf will be a single 63" wide shelf (inner dimensions). This shelf will have 10" high sides made of 1.5" Ply. In the center will be the AVR, on either side of this would be the source components (see the layout of my bedroom system it is 54" in inner width, the TV I have used is a 46" LCD so you have a sense of scale).

d. The top of this second shelf (now about 24" from the ground level) would a single 66" (63" + 1.5" + 1.5") wide plank of wood. On top of this shelf you can place your center speaker. Given that your center speaker is about 10" tall the bottom of the TV will now be 36" (center from floor) which is a high as you should go.

When you want to service the system, remove the center speaker, and top shelf (56" wide) and you have access to all the electronics from the top. When done put the top shelf and center speaker back. This service method also allows you to ensure the speaker, HDMI, CAT6 and RCA wires dont get all tangled up. Install CAT6 and HDMI wires first as they are the siffest.

The weight of the center speaker will keep the top shelf in place. If you look at the photos of my systems you will see that the top shelf of both my systems can be removed.

 

[Eddierockks]

Eddie:

Your center also could be bi-amped/bi-wired as there are 2 sets of terminals. If ever you plan to bi-amp/bi-wire the speaker, please make sure you remove the metal piece that connects the terminals. I am sure your engineer would have removed the metal piece connecting the terminals for your fronts when he bi-amped those.

Yes he did take that out. I couldn't understand the significance of having one there at the first place thou. No idea about it.

If its only you're dressing area behind that wall, can't you just knock it off & incorporate it in your room. It will take care of the door & you will have a wider area to play with.
Congrats on the new set up though, looks awesome!!

Sry buddy, just read that its your bedroom & that your married too so no ways that dressing area's going anywhere. Good luck & I'm sure you wont go wrong with this set-up.

Yes, I can't shift that now. Thank you for your kind words

I say you got a tough job. You need to redesign the cabinet. The current one has no room for servicing. The AVR must be on top as it will produce most heat. Eddie did you not plan the system before making the cabinet? Anyway what's done is done.

a. If the towers are going to flank the TV the left tower (looking at the TV) will be in a corner which is not good. Also you really did not need a center but now that you got one lets use it. The CM9 is 8" wide so the 9" you have on the right is the minimum you will need. Remember you will have to pull the speaker forward to wire it and push it back. When you push it back the wire will tangle behind the speaker. You will need access behind the left speaker to move the wires so that the speaker goes into it's location neatly and nicely.

b. the center section is 66" wide. Lets break this into 3 sections of 21" (63").

c. First have a set of 6-8 drawers of 7" width and 12" height as the lowest level, this will store DVDs. If you need CD storage make the drawers 6" height and 2 levels. If you want a PC then make it 3 or 4 drawers and the rest of the space can be used for a PC kept sideways. The top of the drawers will be the bottom of the next shelf.

d. The next shelf will be a single 63" wide shelf (inner dimensions). This shelf will have 10" high sides made of 1.5" Ply. In the center will be the AVR, on either side of this would be the source components (see the layout of my bedroom system it is 54" in inner width, the TV I have used is a 46" LCD so you have a sense of scale).

d. The top of this second shelf (now about 24" from the ground level) would a single 66" (63" + 1.5" + 1.5") wide plank of wood. On top of this shelf you can place your center speaker. Given that your center speaker is about 10" tall the bottom of the TV will now be 36" (center from floor) which is a high as you should go.

When you want to service the system, remove the center speaker, and top shelf (56" wide) and you have access to all the electronics from the top. When done put the top shelf and center speaker back. This service method also allows you to ensure the speaker, HDMI, CAT6 and RCA wires dont get all tangled up. Install CAT6 and HDMI wires first as they are the siffest.

The weight of the center speaker will keep the top shelf in place. If you look at the photos of my systems you will see that the top shelf of both my systems can be removed.

I did plan about it but then, I had Bose V35 in my mind as I got their engineer on a paid visit at my place and he had kept those electrical outlets for speaker wire. Now I have to redo it all again but I can do it. A little bit of TOD-FOD is acceptable.

And regarding your above post, I am trying to make a rough sketch on paper and see if that's suitable for me. I will get back to you on this soon. Again, thanks very much.

 

[superjanosik]

Hi Eddierockks,

Ive thought that it is impossible to find someone who has similar sound preferences or rather passion to the manufactures.
Im also thinking about CM9 and Denon / Marantz.
But spending much time on the internet reading many reviews Ive found some suspicious.

Therefore it would be great if you would like to share your experience.
Pls let me know:
1) what do you think about CM9 bass? It is strong enough? I do not want to use sub buffer for music (and Bose for surrounds for movies). Have you checked competition : Tannoy Precision 6.2 or KEF R700 (as fronts)
2) have you tried to make the connection between big fronts (like CM9) and Bose for surrounds?
3) Do you like Denon 4520? Im not sure if I like new look of Denon , I have old 3806 which I liked very much but now the time for replacement came. Have you noticed any deep (low) bass problems with Denon (I had it on some moves during bombs explosions)
Have you tried Marantz SR7007? The look seems to be nicer than Denon 4520, do not you agree, so Im not sure about the profits (Im not talking about money) ?
4) How close to the walls do you plan to install the front speakers?
Your answers are very welcome.

Best regards from Poland

 

[spirovious]

Therefore it would be great if you would like to share your experience.
Pls let me know:
1) what do you think about CM9 bass? It is strong enough? I do not want to use sub buffer for music (and Bose for surrounds for movies).

CM9 has good,fast & punchy Bass.Its not boomy at all.I heard them with rotel pre/power.The sound is sweet & very detailed.

 

[superjanosik]

HI All,

are you going to share your experience?

best

 

[Eddierockks]

Hi apologies for a really late reply. I'd been real busy with work lately.

Firstly on Marantz, as this is my first serious HT setup, I'd to take advice from quite some dealers and all of them told me to go with Denon + B&W and not with Marantz. I personally like Marantz but since I've never used one, I was forced to go this route. But now, after almost a month of use, I can proudly say that I love the Denon 4520, watching movies as well as listening to music.

About the CM9 bass, I'd say its decent and pretty appropriate at all times honestly and definitely not boomy at all. I won't say that it's really strong but does the job quite nicely. If you're looking for better and deeper bass, you cannot avoid having a proper sub in your setup. I'm using a Velodyne SPL 1200 ULTRA. Regarding other brands, honestly, I've not done any comparisons as I wanted to stick B&W only so can't say how they'd perform against each other. I was torn between 683 or CM9 only, both from B&W only.

I don't have a Bose system so no comparisons made so far.

Denon's look is sexy if you ask my personal opinion and I'm very pleased with it. Most importantly, this particular model is entirely Made in Japan which was a considering factor for me. I do like the look of 7007 but Denon is what I finally chose and not repenting even a bit about it. If you'd go through my previous posts, you'll find that I was keen on getting a power amp as well but till now, I can't be more satisfied with the AVR alone. I got my sub 2-3 weeks later than when I got my other equipment so the bass is still opening up after daily use. I'll be able to comment on it better when the sub's burn in period gets over.

Look wise, personally, I'm not very fond of round display as on Marantz simply because the rectangular display is much more useful for daily use rather than round display which seems tight and congested. Again this is subjective and YMMV.

Currently, I've the fronts installed at a distance of almost 2 feet from the wall but later on when I'll get my final HT cabinet made in a couple of months, I would still keep them let's say at 18" from the wall.

Hope this helps your decision and best of luck.

Regards.

Hi Eddierockks,

Ive thought that it is impossible to find someone who has similar sound preferences or rather passion to the manufactures.
Im also thinking about CM9 and Denon / Marantz.
But spending much time on the internet reading many reviews Ive found some suspicious.

Therefore it would be great if you would like to share your experience.
Pls let me know:
1) what do you think about CM9 bass? It is strong enough? I do not want to use sub buffer for music (and Bose for surrounds for movies). Have you checked competition : Tannoy Precision 6.2 or KEF R700 (as fronts)
2) have you tried to make the connection between big fronts (like CM9) and Bose for surrounds?
3) Do you like Denon 4520? Im not sure if I like new look of Denon , I have old 3806 which I liked very much but now the time for replacement came. Have you noticed any deep (low) bass problems with Denon (I had it on some moves during bombs explosions)
Have you tried Marantz SR7007? The look seems to be nicer than Denon 4520, do not you agree, so Im not sure about the profits (Im not talking about money) ?
4) How close to the walls do you plan to install the front speakers?
Your answers are very welcome.

Best regards from Poland

HI All,

are you going to share your experience?

best

 

[Eddierockks]

Hi again everybody

I settled with the Velodyne SPL 1200 ULTRA to do the sub duties in my setup. I sent my guy to collect it personally from delhi so all the settings are done by me from a little that I know. The engineer would visit me this week to set them properly.

I've connected the Tata sky hd+, Oppo BDP 93, Ps3 500gb, WD TV LIVE HUB and Apple TV to Microtek 1KVA Twinguard+ UPS. I've another exact model UPS connected to my AVR. I know it's very light for the Denon 4520 because the AVR trips out every time theres a power failure. This worries me a lot and so I want to purchase a power backup solution for my setup. The budget is flexible between 50-70k but I want absolute peace of mind regarding my equipments' safety. My dealer suggested me to simply buy a 2.5 KW stabiliser for the sub alone as its dynamic peak power load is 2400W. For the AVR and 5 gadgets + 51" plasma, he recommends me to buy a 3-4 kva apc online ups. I checked the price with a local dealer (who claims that he is the distributor of Apc in ludhiana and I'm yet to meet him in person tomorrow) and he has quoted me as under:

APC 3 KVA with 4 nos of batteries for 30 minute battery Backup as discussed.
Model No. SUA3000UXI @ 28750+9.35%tax extra
Amaron Batteries for 30 minute Backup 42ahah * 4nosX 3450 = 13800 tax extra 14.3% each.
Battery Rack & Interlink Cables @ 2800.00

Installation : Including this price..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Special Features:
* Advanced Microprocessor Control
* Extra Wide Input Voltage Range
* Input Power Factor Correction
* LCD Display & Output Power Factor 0.8.
* Sine-Wave Output
* Intelligent Battery Management
* Intelligent Automatic Bypass
* User-friendly Panel with Load & Battery Bar-Graph
* PowerChute Software for UPS Power Management & Diagnostics compatible to Windows, Novell & Unix


Kindly feel free to contact us in case any clarification or further information is needed.

TERMS & CONDITIONS:
* Value Added Tax : Extra as applicable at the time of supply. Present rate is 9.35% on UPS & 14.30% on all other items.
* Purchase Order : M/S IDM Solutions, Ludhiana
* Installation Charges: Including.
* Frieght : nil
* Payment Terms : 100% Delivery
* Delivery : within 2 Days.
* Warranty : 2 years for UPS & 2 years on Batteries Onsite Swap.
* Validity :2 WEEK
--
Here's another quote from a delhi dealer:

APC 3KVA Online UPS (SRC3000XLI) -@51000/- +Tax



APC 3KVA Smart UPS (SUA3000I) -@41000/- +Tax



APC 2KVa Online UPS (SRC2000XLI) -@30500/- +Tax



APC 2KVA Smart UPS (SUA2200I) -@30500/- +Tax
--

What do you guys suggest? I'm entirely counting on user reviews and experiences here from all of you FMs. Kindly suggest me the options that have best available post sales service as well because I wouldn't prefer buying something whose after sales service is poorly rated or involves long repair times. Till date, friends and dealers have suggested me to go with APC only but I can consider other brands as well if they're very good.

Also, I've no knowledge about online ups' as I've never bought one. From the picture, it looks huge. Here's a noob question: if I place them in my room, would they make quite some noise with the ups' fan? I'm thinking if it'll be too loud because if that's the case, then I would consider apt placement maybe outside my room in the lobby. Not even sure if its possible as of now. What are your thoughts about it? Please suggest.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

Warm Regards.

 

[Eddierockks]

Any and all suggestions would be appreciated, thanks.

 

[Eddierockks]

Would a pure sine wave inverter do a better job if I connect the inverter to power the wall outlet which is in turn connected to the Belkin Gold surge protector further connected to all the equipment? Till date, no dealer has given me a clear idea about power backup that people use with Home Theatre Setups. All everybody prefers is APC online ups. Please help me out here. Thanks.

 

[Eddierockks]

Suggestions anyone?

 

[rajadeep]

An Apc online ups would always be better than an inverter mainly coz it would not trip the avr or other equips on power failure... You should have a good sinewave inverter for the full house mainly for longer backup which the UPS should be mainly to the prevent the tripping of equips when the light goes... As such it does not really matter if ur UPS has 5 min backup for 2 hour backup as its only use is during the 2 sec period when the light goes or comes back on...You should save on the batteries of the UPS & invest in more batteries for ur main house inverter... I guess ur inverter for the full house would be 5-6kva min...

 

[navin advani]

Microtek 1KVA Twinguard+ UPS.

for the Denon 4520 because the AVR trips out every time theres a power failure.

This worries me a lot and so I want to purchase a power backup solution...peace of mind regarding my equipments' safety.

2.5 KW stabiliser ...a 3-4 kva apc online ups.

APC 3 KVA with 4 nos of batteries for 30 minute battery Backup

APC 3KVA Online UPS (SRC3000XLI) -@51000/- +Tax
APC 3KVA Smart UPS (SUA3000I) -@41000/- +Tax

An Apc online ups ... You should have a good sinewave inverter for the full house mainly for longer backup which the UPS should be mainly to the prevent the tripping of equips when the light goes... As such it does not really matter if ur UPS has 5 min backup for 2 hour backup as its only use is during the 2 sec period when the light goes or comes back on...I guess ur inverter for the full house would be 5-6kva min...

Where I live we fortunately do not have power outages. But I would subscribe to RajaDeep's view. If you live in an area where you do have frequent power outages it makes sense to get an Inverter with Battery backup for that equipment that you would consider critical - for example fans, lights, and fridges - for the functioning of the house (audio as much we love it is not a critical function). Obviously all these items would need to be on a circuit that is separate from the air-conditioners, water heaters and other high watt but non-critical devices otherwise you would have to physically check that these devices are off during a power failure to extend the time that the battery can run your house/apartment.

For other devices like the audio system or computers you can use an Online UPS or Smart UPS. I would assume you wont be drawing more than 1000VA in actual continous use hence you can get 15-30 mins of backup with any of these.
APC Smart-UPS 2200VA USB & Serial 230V
APC Smart-UPS RC 3000VA 230V Harsh Environment
APC Smart-UPS RT 3000VA 230V RM Harsh Environment