Please help me for upgrading 5.1.2 to 5.1.4

honestmuggle

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I'm pretty new to all of this, so I apologise, your help and advice would be much appreciated.

I currently have a new Atmos 5.1.2 setup with a Denon X3700H paired with Dali Oberon 3, Alteco c1 (surround) and SBS1000 Pro, I love it. The .2 Atmos speakers (Dali E80 Ceiling Speakers) are mounted in the ceiling (centre of the room) in front of my listening position for nearly about 30* However, the atmos sounds are not very noticeable.

01.jpg

Going through various forums and research, I came to know how significant a difference could be by adding additional two Atmos speakers that make 5.1.4

I recently had the idea of adding 2 additional Atmos speakers. These would most likely be SBS prime elevation speakers. I would like to use ceiling speakers, but I'm unable to modify or cut my false ceiling anymore.

Can anybody tell me what would be the ideal speaker placement in regards to my current speaker placement and sitting position? The sofa is against the back wall, so there is no option for a rear.

02.jpg


My plan is to either mount the speaker just above the listening position or front height above the TV.
Which one would be the ideal?

The room size is around 13x19 ft and the height is roughly 9ft.
You can check the 3D layout of the room I have attached.

top view.jpg
 

Subbu68

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I'm pretty new to all of this, so I apologise, your help and advice would be much appreciated.

I currently have a new Atmos 5.1.2 setup with a Denon X3700H paired with Dali Oberon 3, Alteco c1 (surround) and SBS1000 Pro, I love it. The .2 Atmos speakers (Dali E80 Ceiling Speakers) are mounted in the ceiling (centre of the room) in front of my listening position for nearly about 30* However, the atmos sounds are not very noticeable.

View attachment 69757

Going through various forums and research, I came to know how significant a difference could be by adding additional two Atmos speakers that make 5.1.4

I recently had the idea of adding 2 additional Atmos speakers. These would most likely be SBS prime elevation speakers. I would like to use ceiling speakers, but I'm unable to modify or cut my false ceiling anymore.

Can anybody tell me what would be the ideal speaker placement in regards to my current speaker placement and sitting position? The sofa is against the back wall, so there is no option for a rear.

View attachment 69759


My plan is to either mount the speaker just above the listening position or front height above the TV.
Which one would be the ideal?

The room size is around 13x19 ft and the height is roughly 9ft.
You can check the 3D layout of the room I have attached.

View attachment 69758
Nice decor you have..

Couldn't recommend anything as I am staunch stereo listener
 

liverpool_for_life

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However, the atmos sounds are not very noticeable.

A big part of why that is is likely down to your side surrounds positioning. They're installed way too high and possibly too far out into the room. Any way to bring those down to ear level or thereabouts and closer towards your seating position, even if only temporarily? If so, see if that helps your perception of overhead sounds. I would recommend against adding additional overheads until your current issue is resolved.
 

headcase

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A big part of why that is is likely down to your side surrounds positioning. They're installed way too high and possibly too far out into the room. Any way to bring those down to ear level or thereabouts and closer towards your seating position, even if only temporarily? If so, see if that helps your perception of overhead sounds. I would recommend against adding additional overheads until your current issue is resolved.
Please refer to below 👇 for set up guide. You can select the configuration u desire 5.1.2 or 5.1.4 and see about the possibilities.

Try to have all speakers at ear level (1.5ft above head) ur tweeters should be firing at ur listening position.

**Note:
1. I feel ur sub is smothered behind ur furniture. Keep it on the opposite side in the open slightly forward near to ur seating area.
2. Bring out the centre from furniture enclosure a bit to give it some room.
3. Feed the accurate distance of Atmos ch and increase the ch vol a bit +3db
4. Run the Audyssy again
 

honestmuggle

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They're installed way too high and possibly too far out into the room. Any way to bring those down to ear level or thereabouts and closer towards your seating position

Thank you friend for pointing it out. The reason I kept them in height for two reasons,

1) I followed the elevation speaker placement instructions, since alteco c1 are down-firing speakers, I kept them in height so they can throw the sound directly to MLP. I found them better at that height as it sounded good to me.

2) I could easily hide the visible cable coming from the ceilings. It looks clean aesthetically considering my living room is not a fully private hometheatre.

3) For the same reason I placed the sub behind the furniture facing toward the right side wall.
 

honestmuggle

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**Note:
1. I feel ur sub is smothered behind ur furniture. Keep it on the opposite side in the open slightly forward near to ur seating area.
2. Bring out the centre from furniture enclosure a bit to give it some room.
3. Feed the accurate distance of Atmos ch and increase the ch vol a bit +3db
4. Run the Audyssy again

@headcase
Thank you, I think I need to test with audessy, My atmos setup is one week old. All the speaker's settings were done manually not through audyssy. The installer guy who visited my home said audessy works more accurately in a fully sealed and acoustically treated room, while my living room is open from many sides and audessy can mess the whole sound dynamics.

I have already added +3db to the Middle atmos speakers. They sound very good, especially when listening to atmos songs through apple music.
But I have a gut feeling that adding an additional two elevation speakers just above my MLP would add a significant difference.
 

headcase

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@headcase
Thank you, I think I need to test with audessy, My atmos setup is one week old. All the speaker's settings were done manually not through audyssy. The installer guy who visited my home said audessy works more accurately in a fully sealed and acoustically treated room, while my living room is open from many sides and audessy can mess the whole sound dynamics.

I have already added +3db to the Middle atmos speakers. They sound very good, especially when listening to atmos songs through apple music.
But I have a gut feeling that adding an additional two elevation speakers just above my MLP would add a significant difference.
Glad it made some difference 👍🏼😃

1 Ur gut feeling is a fact cuz ur current Atmos 🔊 are middle confg. While ur seating is away.
(Just figured looking at ur pics)
2 Yes hvn an over the head Atmos 🔊 will be more appropriate to ULP
3 Plz bring out ur centre from enclosure and use dialogue enhancer feature from ur avr mobile app. (If present in ur avr model i.e.)
4 U can increase ch lvl vol manually as long as u have headroom with master vol.
5 Run Audessy but don't trust 100%. Later do manual ch lvl adjustment as per liking. Atleast it will cancel standing waves.
6 I really feel you should add side surrounds for a 7.1.4. later. U can go with bipolar surrounds for sides and they will also look aesthetic. And put ur existing surrounds to rear duty 1.5 ft above head 🗣️ or until the tweeters fire 🎯 at ULP.

**Note:
*Never go reference vol
*Headroom vol = (Reference vol - sweet spot vol)
 
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liverpool_for_life

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1) I followed the elevation speaker placement instructions, since alteco c1 are down-firing speakers, I kept them in height so they can throw the sound directly to MLP.

Understood, but you can't mount surround speakers in a position meant for elevation speakers. You don't listen to individual speakers. You're really looking for an immersive sound field where the speakers don't call attention to themselves. And placing speakers where they're meant to be (or get as close as practically possible and live with the trade-offs) is helpful. In your case, the trade-off, in your own words, is that "Atmos sounds are not very noticeable". Adding an extra pair of overheads isn't going to solve the problem you already have.

I found them better at that height as it sounded good to me.

Unfortunately, that comes at the cost of compromising your overheads.

2) I could easily hide the visible cable coming from the ceilings. It looks clean aesthetically considering my living room is not a fully private hometheatre.

Understand the aesthetic considerations, but without fixing the current surround sound positioning, you're unlikely to get good value for the extra overheads (you've noticed that the current pair doesn't add much already) unless there are discrete overhead effects with front to back panning and there's nothing for the side surrounds at the same time.

Re. your installer's comments regarding Audyssey, he either doesn't know what he's talking about or he isn't inclined to spend the time/effort necessary for a calibration. Not a good look, either way.
 

honestmuggle

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Understood, but you can't mount surround speakers in a position meant for elevation speakers. You don't listen to individual speakers. You're really looking for an immersive sound field where the speakers don't call attention to themselves. And placing speakers where they're meant to be (or get as close as practically possible and live with the trade-offs) is helpful. In your case, the trade-off, in your own words, is that "Atmos sounds are not very noticeable". Adding an extra pair of overheads isn't going to solve the problem you already have.



Unfortunately, that comes at the cost of compromising your overheads.

I understood your point, thank you. I will bring down the surround speakers near about 1ft from the ear levels. Also, since its alteco the speakers are designed to down fire the sound. Would you suggest me to keep it at a certain height or just bring it down to ear level and switch the mode to "up"?

As I am mounting two svs prime elevation speakers, I need your advice for their placements.



" Just above the listening position (sofa) in the ceiling, but in which direction"?
 

honestmuggle

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6 I really feel you should add side surrounds for a 7.1.4. later. U can go with bipolar surrounds for sides and they will also look aesthetic. And put ur existing surrounds to rear duty 1.5 ft above head 🗣️ or until the tweeters fire 🎯 at ULP.

**Note:
*Never go reference vol
*Headroom vol = (Reference vol - sweet spot vol)

If I am not mistaken, for this I need to upgrade my AVR?
currently, I am using 3700H
 

honestmuggle

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Nope ur avr is a 9.2 ch
7.1.2...put ur middle Atmos in place of rear overhead. Rest 7.1

Thanks, I have installed in-ceiling speakers in the middle. So practically it is not possible for me to remove them as the false ceiling cut has already been done.

The only option I am seeing right now is to go for 5.1.4.
 

deep_blues

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Thanks, I have installed in-ceiling speakers in the middle. So practically it is not possible for me to remove them as the false ceiling cut has already been done.

The only option I am seeing right now is to go for 5.1.4.
You can always get the ceiling (gypsum) filled up & cut elsewhere if need be
 
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