Please help to understand

[hauntedhunter]

Hi All,

I'm trying to build a stereo setup.I'm not an audiophile to understand all the technicalities of the terms and trying hard to understand them so that I don't waste my money doing something stupid.

Please help me get answer to these :

1.If the integrated stereo amp spec says 40 watts into 8 Ohms ( say CA 340A ) and the speaker spec says 25W into 8 Ohms ( Say Polk Audio Monitor 40 ),what does it mean? Does it mean to drive such speakers I need an amp with 125W power ? How to decide if the amp will be able to drive the speakers or not in case we are not able to test them together ?

2.I need to place the bookshelves near to the wall ( with their rear side facing the wall ).So which is an advantage or disadvantage in this case : rear bass firing or front bass firing?

What is the effect of the bass firing port ?

3.Which will have a better bass : a speaker with 2 x 5.2-inch driver's or a speaker with 1 x 6.5-inch driver ?
Which will sound better ?( considering both have 1 x 1-inch tweeter )?
Please advice my senior audiophiles

Thanks

 

[sgmane]

Oh!! That's also one of those questions in my mind!!
Request audiophiles to guide through.
Me too looking for CA 340A or 540A, NAD 315BEE combi with what speaker configuration?
I did see in my earlier post "pscyotropic" did specify NAD315BEE with Wharfedale 5.1. If i go for CA 540A and still can use Wharfedale 9.1 or can i go for Wharfedale 9.2?
But i do have this query same as "hauntedhunter".
Neverthless haunted by doubts, i would be much relieved when i get answers from audiophiles here.!!!

 

[spirovious]

Hi All,


Please help me get answer to these :

1.If the integrated stereo amp spec says 40 watts into 8 Ohms ( say CA 340A ) and the speaker spec says 25W into 8 Ohms ( Say Polk Audio Monitor 40 ),what does it mean? Does it mean to drive such speakers I need an amp with 125W power ? How to decide if the amp will be able to drive the speakers or not in case we are not able to test them together ?



2.I need tWo place the bookshelves near to the wall ( with their rear side facing the wall ).So which is an advantage or disadvantage in this case : rear bass firing or front bass firing?

What is the effect of the bass firing port ?




3.Which will have a better bass : a speaker with 2 x 5.2-inch driver's or a speaker with 1 x 6.5-inch driver ?
Which will sound better ?( considering both have 1 x 1-inch tweeter )?
Please advice my senior audiophiles

Thanks

ans1.-Technically If you connect Amp with higher ratings (40w) to low rated speakers(25w) is very safe.Simple reasons,spk need power to drive.Amp
gives that power.If amp is weak it can not produce enough power.May
damage the system.
You have to check sensitivity of spk.If sensitivity is high,less power required
for spk.Sensitivity is sound pressure produced by spk for 1 watt.

ans2.- If you select spk with front port,you can place bookshelves near to the wall.Port extends Bass effect.

ans3- Larger the speaker,more the Bass.Sound quality can very from spk
size to the material used.Check yourself.

 

[hauntedhunter]

Thanks for the explanationd.It was great for us newbies to understand.

Just one confusion:

You said it is safe to drive spkr by a higher power amp.But if the amp is having higher power than what the max power of spkr is,are we not at risk of damaging the spkr in case full amp power goes into the speaker?

Thanks again.

 

[spirovious]

Thanks for the explanationd.It was great for us newbies to understand.

Just one confusion:

You said it is safe to drive spkr by a higher power amp.But if the amp is having higher power than what the max power of spkr is,are we not at risk of damaging the spkr in case full amp power goes into the speaker?

Thanks again.

See,as I said amp provides power (current)to spk to move diaphragm.
You never listen to full volume level,so chance of damaging spk do not remain.
On other hand spk demand certain power to drive(continuous power rating)
It can handle more power for short period(max power handling)

Audio signal is variating current.So when aud signal reaches spk ,it sends some back current to amp.Amp has to cancle that current & send new signal.
This is basics of audio(electromagnetics)& has to be assumed.

So if amp has higher rating, it can provide all the spk need.

 

[hauntedhunter]

Thanks.

So it's safe if the amp power rating is higher than the speaker power rating but if the amp power rating is less than that of the speaker,it may not be able to drive the speaker.Am i right this time ?

 

[gopi]

hauntedhunter, an amp can put out 600W. But the question is will you run it with that. The Watts convert itself into volume. So, the more the Watts the more the volume. typically something like 100W if continuously used on a medium efficient speakers will for sure make your neighbors call police unless you are in a soundproof room. Even their I doubt you will need a continuous 100W. So, you might have an amp that pumps 500W if required, but you will mostly never require it. So, you will never pump that much into the speaker and hence you cannot damage it. Secondly, the ratings given by a manufacturer for a speaker like 20-100W, doesn't mean that the moment you feed more than 100W, the speaker will get damaged. People here run very powerful amps like 300W into such speakers. But, mostly it doesn't pump 300W and even if it does pump more than 100W it won't be continuous. So, you can run a powerful amp into a speaker. But, it will cost you more, it might not be needed and it can cause damage if there are very high peak power pumped in or continuous high power pumped in. Most of the speaker damage comes from under powering the speaker than overpowering.
Regarding impedances, two things matter. One, whats the average value and secondly, whats the lowest value. If some amp is rated 100W at 8ohms, theoretically it should be able to put out close to 200W at 4ohms. However, the more the Watts, the more the current the amp needs. This would mean that there should be a good big power supply unit for that. Not all amps can do that.
Like Muthu said, Cambridge though 60W at 8ohms, is only 90W at 4ohms. This is not a very good sign for lower impedance speakers. But the trouble is not even because of this as much as it is from the lowest impedance the speaker can go to. For example Dynaudio's impedance average might be 4 to 6. But, at certain frequencies it dips lesser than 2. So, that this point, the power that should be put out by cambridge should be 60 * 4 = 240W. But something that puts out 60W at 8, 90W at 4, might only put out 110W at 2 and probably at 1ohm might only put out 120W as against a best of 480W it should put out. So, pairing the cambridge with the Dynaudio will not be a good choice at all.
Finally, regarding polk audio monitor 40, its a nice speaker specifically for rock and probably for the price. I would consider them based on the budget and amplifier it will be used for and the music you are interested in.

 

[spirovious]

Thanks.

So it's safe if the amp power rating is higher than the speaker power rating but if the amp power rating is less than that of the speaker,it may not be able to drive the speaker.Am i right this time ?

Low rated amp can drive high power spk,but bcose of high current demand from spk amp will be strained as it cannot give extra power at high vol.
If you check Hifi mag,they reccomend 130w Onkyo606 AVR with 50wTannoy
F1 .

 

[hauntedhunter]

Thanks to everyone for chiping in and helping me understand this.Really informative answers Happy to learn more.
Please suggest me now :

I just saw polk audio monitor 40.Mordaunt short Avant 902i,Wharfedale diamond 9.2 and Monitor audio Bronze R BR2.

polk audio monitor 40 : Nominal Impedance - 8 ohms,Recommended Amplifier Power : 20 - 125 w/channel,Efficiency - 89 dB

Mordaunt short Avant 902i : Power rating :15-100watts,Nominal impedance : 4-8?,Sensitivity : 89db

Wharfedale diamond 9.2 : Power rating :20-100watts,Nominal impedance : 6?,Sensitivity : 86db

Monitor audio Bronze R BR2 : Power rating :100watts,Nominal impedance : 6?,Sensitivity : 90db

If I choose the CA 340A SE as my amp with specs :

45 watts (into 8 ohms)/55 watts (into 4 ohms)
Signal to Noise Ratio: 92dB (unweighted)

1. Which of these speaker will match with this amp the best with it in order of priority ?

2.Which speaker should be my choice ? ( I listen to lot of classic rock/electronic music,Like good bass,Do watch movies too)

3.The amp doesn't have a pre-out.I plan to connect a sub to this setup later ( may be 5-6 months ),will I be able to do that without a pre out ?

Please suggest.

 

[spirovious]

Thanks to everyone for chiping in and helping me understand this.Really informative answers Happy to learn more.
Please suggest me now :

I just saw polk audio monitor 40.Mordaunt short Avant 902i,Wharfedale diamond 9.2 and Monitor audio Bronze R BR2.

polk audio monitor 40 : Nominal Impedance - 8 ohms,Recommended Amplifier Power : 20 - 125 w/channel,Efficiency - 89 dB

Mordaunt short Avant 902i : Power rating :15-100watts,Nominal impedance : 4-8?,Sensitivity : 89db

Wharfedale diamond 9.2 : Power rating :20-100watts,Nominal impedance : 6?,Sensitivity : 86db

Monitor audio Bronze R BR2 : Power rating :100watts,Nominal impedance : 6?,Sensitivity : 90db

If I choose the CA 340A SE as my amp with specs :

45 watts (into 8 ohms)/55 watts (into 4 ohms)
Signal to Noise Ratio: 92dB (unweighted)

1. Which of these speaker will match with this amp the best with it in order of priority ?

2.Which speaker should be my choice ? ( I listen to lot of classic rock/electronic music,Like good bass,Do watch movies too)

3.The amp doesn't have a pre-out.I plan to connect a sub to this setup later ( may be 5-6 months ),will I be able to do that without a pre out ?

Please suggest.

Mordaunt short is better choice(good 4 movie & music).Polk the second.
Wharfedale though good may not match CA340 as it is 6ohm.

This amp has subwoofer out as others where you can connect Sub.
pre out is 5.1

 

[hauntedhunter]

Ooops I used to think pre-out is same as sub-out

Thanks for the info.

Anyone knows the price of these products in India ?

 

[bazee]

hi

my choice for top postion will be betwn award-winning MA BR2 / WF 9.2.
Next maybe MS and last Polk.
this is just my personal opinion.

And if you like bass, i think none of these will deliver GOOD bass.
You may have to go for floor-standers.

regards

 

[hauntedhunter]

Thanks for the inputs.But I'm limited on budget I just can spend 10-15K at most on speakers and I don't think I'll get any floorstanders in that budget,right?

Price anyone??

 

[bazee]

Wharfedale 9.2 : 14500/- MRP

MA BR2 : 21000/- ( am i right?)


regards

 

[hauntedhunter]

This amp has subwoofer out as others where you can connect Sub.
pre out is 5.1

I couldn't find this info ( that 340A has a sub out ) anywhere

 

[gopi]

Pre outs can be used for sub. 340A or 340A SE doesn't have any pre or sub outs. only 540A and above you get that.
The difference between sub out and pre out on a 5.1 receiver is different from the one in a stereo amplifier. The amp/receiver typically passes all the frequencies through pre outs, while through sub out you get only frequencies below a set value (this value is set in the receiver). A sub on the other hand typically has a cutoff frequency above which it can ignore any data sent. So, whether you use pre out or sub out, the sub will use only the frequencies below this cutoff. The other possibility is that pre out has to use very good quality parts, whereas sub out can be inferior , though whether the manufacturer will chose an inferior out or not is questionable.
In short for adding a sub you need CA540A or above.

Regarding the different speakers, my choice is Monitor Audio BR2, then Wharfedale 9.1. I have heard all the four mentioned here. My preference is to go for BR2 though its costlier. Slightly less costly would be an Usher S520. Its better than BR2 in all aspects except the bass.

902i has almost nil bass. Unless you plan to add a subwoofer I wouldn't recommend that. But, that would mean more money. So, I would skip that.
Wharfedale and Monitor Audio are different kind of speakers. MA is more of a Rock and Roll energetic speaker with a bit of zing to it. Wharfedale on the other hand is more polite and polished performer, more like sipping a coffee in a lazy rainy afternoon. So, it should be easy based on what you want.
Polk Audio is good, but not in the same league as the other two mentioned here.

CA540A for 18k and MA BR2 for 21k and then to do justice a decent CD player for atleast 12 to 15k, puts it all in excess of 55k.

If your budget is not that much, then you can seriously consider AudioEngine A5. At 18k they are a wonderful deal.

Or I would definitely recommend the second hand route. The reason why I am not recommending anything cheaper is that , when somebody has taken the effort to move from normal Sony/Philips systems, its worthwile to spend some amount so that you would stay at a point and also, feel that the jump was good enough.

Personally, my best entry level combination is:
Cambridge Audio 540C/640C v2
NAD C325bee
Monitor Audio BR2/Usher S520

 

[hauntedhunter]

Thanks a ton for all the info.
Sadly my budget isn't that much

I can't afford more than 25K(amp+speaker)

So that puts MA out of my shortlist.How's Wharfedale 9.2 compared to 9.1/ Polk audio monitor 40?

Which will have a nice tight bass?

Can you suggest me the cheapest amp that I can go for ?

(Also someone said I can use a sub even if I don't have a sub/pre out by connecting the sub line in to the amp and sub line out to the speakers.Any idea if I can manage to add a sub by some means without having to spend extra on an amp with a sub-out ?)

Please help me

 

[hauntedhunter]

Also anyone heard about norge amps.They are quite cheap compared to international brands.

 

[sgmane]

Hi folks,

Thanks so much for all your inputs. Iam enlightened . I see iam slowly coming out of the dark tunnel into the ocean of audiophiles!!!

Me too - looking for budget amps. My interest - soft music, decent bass (not looking for rock n roll kind), gazhals, carnatic instrumental, old/new filmi songs, some english pop.
Am i correct in selecting (any one of the options):
1. CA 340A SE + wharfedale 9.1 or Polk audio monitor 40 ?
2. NAD 315BEE + wharfedale 9.1 or Polk audio monitor 40? (I see NAD 315BEE retails for 19K, oh!!! if that's so, can i then go for CA 540A amp?)
3. Norge + wharfedale 9.1 or Polk audio monitor 40?
(Ofcourse all the above surely after auditioning)
And later i would like to add a decent budget CD player (may be CA or any good review CD player that you suggests on the lower end).
Iam looking exclusively for stereo 2(.1) setup. If you folks tell that .1 is important in this setup!!! Do throw light on this for me based on my interests mentioned above.
With the above setup, can i (currently, until i go for a AVR later) plug in the TV audio out to the combination mentioned above? (To the selected combi amp + speakers). I understand i will be hearing the TV audio out with only the stereo setup. But is this possible?

HaunterHunter - thanks for opening this thread. Sailing on the same boat!!!

Lot of knowledge transfer for me folks. thanks once again.

 

[hauntedhunter]

Hi sgmane,we should thank all our guides who have replied to us and really enlightened us.Thanks again all of you!

Just one thing we 2 seem to have a different taste in music,so let's not confuse anyone

I love rock n roll/electronic/heavy guitar riffs

Guide us audiophiles