Poll - Cable Length and Sound difference.

[Ambio]

I am not denying that you may experience sound difference with speakers cables. I have heard them. To move forward with this topic, let's consider what factors could make cables to sound difference.

Firstly, I may not hearing any difference because I use the correct wire size for the current/voltage requirement of the speakers at the loudest volume I listen to. Secondly, my amplifier is stable right down to 2ohm at 1000W. Thirdly, my speakers cables are rather short. Maybe, less than 8 feet. ( Well.. it came factory terminated. But then audiophiles advised to use bare wire connection. So I cut of the banana plugs off and use them bare with monthly trimming by 1 inch or so to remove the corroded copper. I think it shrunk by more than 1 foot until I soldered back some ordinary banana plugs.) Finally, differences mean they must be distinguishable at all times. I do not want to tell some very minor differences that will be audible when I use one particular track at a particular spot.

Please take part in the poll so that we can be more certain how to improve sound with cables. Your names will not be shown so you can freely express yourself with confidence.

a) I hear difference in cables . Amplifier power rating below150W

b) I hear difference in cables. Speakers cable length more than 8 feet.

c) I hear difference in cables. Loudspeakers measured minimum impedance below 4 ohm. Check manufacturer graph and not specification. If not given it is most likely below 4 ohm.

d) I hear difference in cables. But none of the above.

e) Too small to positively identify the difference with all the sound tracks especially with new unknown tracks.

 

[Ambio]

After about 25 views I was expecting an overwhelming votes for (D) but only one?! would the one person care to provide the Speakers, Amplifier and Cables brand? You can remain anonymous by PMing me or maybe you can share it through a common proponent of cables.

Please vote, don't be in denial..

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I can't vote on speaker cables; the only cables I have changed in the past decade-plus have been interconnects.

let's consider what factors could make cables to sound difference.

i think this is pretty-well done, dusted and documented here: Speaker Wire, A History. The author (a) does not deny that they can, and (B) has pretty good credentials in high-end audio --- which makes it a little difficult to write off what he says, but I expect that someone will.

 

[Ambio]

I was just post about Russell and his IDS25. He was forced to his Cardas cables because that's what the customers want not because it improves the sound.

After over 70 view only three voted which shows the real confidence of their hearing.

 

[Hiten]

After over 70 view only three voted which shows the real confidence of their hearing.

Is the vote compulsory ? At the beginning of joining the forum I would have happily jumped in. But not anymore. I don't have confidence in my hearing. Also I don't have high end system. But I would encourage other experienced members to vote if it helps. But people like me would like not to get involved in contentious audiophile issues. Whatever false wisdom I may have gathered, I am happy person now.
Regards

 

[Ambio]

Is the vote compulsory ? At the beginning of joining the forum I would have happily jumped in. But not anymore. I don't have confidence in my hearing. Also I don't have high end system. But I would encourage other experienced members to vote if it helps. But people like me would like not to get involved in contentious audiophile issues. Whatever false wisdom I may have gathered, I am happy person now.*
Regards

That's how it should be. Be happy and if you feel something is lacking than get your priorities right. High End is not about sound but about exotic equipments. The key word here is discerning individuals choice. That elevates that individual above rest of them.*

If someone hangs a totally meaningless modern painting he becomes different and joins the exclusive club of discerning society. Never mind if they really do not the meaning or it takes the artist to explain it to them. If anyone were to question the wisdom about the painting then they soon become *the outcast of the club. That's the same here. We join for better sound but bound by the rule set by a few who hardly proved anything except unverifiable claims. Unfortunately, you cannot achieve true SQ if you believe changing cables or adding diamond racing cones.

Acoustic is rather straight forward. Our hearing is not perfect.

We all have heard of*Stradivarius violins and believe they sound better than all the other violins. A poor father sold his only house in Singapore to buy his son the revered*Stradivarius violin. Unfortunately, the truth is even professionals could not tell the difference. But if someone could what's wrong in sharing so that we that we can enjoy a better sound. Maybe- just maybe - using some combination you could actually hear better sound with your current setup. So what's the secret?

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Ahhh... the pleasures of ownership

Who wouldn't enjoy owning a Strad --- assuming they are interested in violins, of course!

Correct me if I'm wrong, because it was a while ago I read about that test (there were actually two, I think), but I don't think it was all-violins-sound-the-same. It was more, yes, modern violin makers can make an instrument that is as good as, or even better than, a Strad. Might be more relevant when someone is claiming that nobody makes electronics as well as some people did fifty years ago.

Which also doesn't mean that people do not get genuine pleasure and satisfaction from restoring and using vintage hifi kit.

 

[Ambio]

Ahhh... the pleasures of ownership

Who wouldn't enjoy owning a Strad --- assuming they are interested in violins, of course!

Correct me if I'm wrong, because it was a while ago I read about that test (there were actually two, I think), but I don't think it was all-violins-sound-the-same. It was more,.....

Precisely! It could be pleasure of ownership.

There could be more than two tests. The first time I read about this was more than 10 years ago. The point is - there wasn't any special sonic signature that make them distinct from others that you could identify with your eyes closed using your ears.

Alan Shaw couldn't identify his best selling SHL5 in a blind test. Think about it, a designer who took two years to create his only super tweeter model and yet nothing in the sound that made it so special or memorable that the creator could identify in a blind test. The bottom line is, you cannot remember sound. Not even the super tweeter with the extra HF.

It is possible after repeated hearing of a single track you may able to identify them with a combination of certain Amp and cables. You may be able to get 100% correct answers in DBT but if I were to replace the track with different tracks then the results would be different.

 

[captrajesh]

Unfortunately, the truth is even professionals could not tell the difference.

Claudia Fritz (a scientist who studies instrument acoustics) and Joseph Curtin (a violin-maker) may have discovered the real secret to a Stradivariuss sound: nothing at all.

In most cases, the listeners werent experts, and the players and researchers knew which violin was which a flaw that could have biased the results.

I think that says it all; why were this tests conducted in the first place.

 

[Ambio]

Please read carefully.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Yes, rajesh, do read that stuff carefully. Also, notice the terms of reference, which, in at least one test, were something like which instrument would you be happy to take on a tour?

Not being a violinist, it is not a story that I want to revisit. The principles are interesting, the practicalities not so much so. So, in talking about it, I may make some mistakes. Updates are welcome, but please, for people who want to follow the story, provide links/references.

I think that there was a fair amount of argument and even some recanting, after the tests. From what I remember, of those that I read, test two was held because of valid objections to test one. This sort of thing is not easy (which is why Sean Olive has what must be a huge budget!) to get really right.

Playing a musical instrument is a whole touchy feely experience as well as just a sound. Even so, IIRC, the Strads were not revealed. Testers were qualified, professional-standard musicians. It matters less who was in the audience.

I'll stress something I touched on: this was not an all violins sound the same exercise. It was not done with cheap Chinese mass-produced stuff that would sound horrible even in the hands of MSG, TNK or Yehudi Menuhin. IIRC, there may have been lower-price instruments included, but there were serious, hand-crafted violins made by people who might be the Stradivariouss of today.

 

[jai1611]

I'll stress something I touched on: this was not an all violins sound the same exercise. It was not done with cheap Chinese mass-produced stuff that would sound horrible even in the hands of MSG, TNK or Yehudi Menuhin. IIRC, there may have been lower-price instruments included, but there were serious, hand-crafted violins made by people who might be the Stradivariouss of today.

I think the most preferred violin costs somewhere in the region of US$30k (based on the comments in that article). Its quite a testimony that it takes that much money to beat a 300 year old violin that's probably not performing as its maker intended given the modifications made over the years

I also found this extract from one of the comments interesting, although it was given in the context of wine rather than violins.
"And I fail to see what a random (i.e. non-expert) sample of people being unable to distinguish different wines could possibly tell us, other than that they cannot tell different wines apart, which might be due to a host of reasons, inexperience chief among them. This is much like asking a random sample of the population whether they could detect subtle differences in X-rays or MRI images and pronouncing, upon their being unable to do so, that this proves that to rely on these imaging techniques is delusional."

To me, the violin test carries credibility precisely because the people making the judgement were violinists, not random people pulled off the street and asked to judge. The flipside of this is that some of them might have their own biases.

For someone interested in the original study, its here: Player preferences among new and old violins