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Marantz Cinema Series AV Receivers
Hi all,

Enjoyed our impromptu AV audition shared between the 3 of us today.
Spiro has pointed out most of the details. Ultimately it boils down to personal tastes so all looking for budget HT AVR's have good options in both Denon & Yamaha.

Couple of observations to add to spiro's:

The Centre channel speaker in the Polk RM705 is the weakest link in the 5.1 package, followed by the sub.

Denon's airplay is a breeze to use & very good addition.

KEF Q300 speakers are a revelation in terms of what a good Book Shelf Design can do. Was completely surprised by levels of bass reproduction & overall large soundstage it creates. Everything going for it save for 1 odd observation: played the undernoted track

Hey You - Pink Floyd Music Video - YouTube

There was huge sound & driver distortion taking place resulting in the speaker clipping & farting (:D for want of a better word) that completely ruined every single good point of the speaker. That too at the amp volume at 10 o'clock. Found this an extremely un nerving & disappointing experience. Sales rep was also shocked to experience this. All this after he had waxed eloquently about how the speaker was burned in 'properly' for 200 odd hours & such :rolleyes:
The Denon 710AE amp is a neutral & somewhat laidback amp, hence shudder to think how the Q300's would have reacted with a brighter/forward sounding amp???

Got 1 very important thing cleared from ProFX sales rep today, warranty for denon products sold by them is 1 YEAR ONLY So now all those saying 3 years are wrong in saying so!:indifferent14:
 
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Denom,

On continuation to your audition of old paradigm Monitor 9, look forward to see your review on new paradigm 9 which is small in size and built in china.:)
 
Srini,

I will try to do so ASAP - am also keen to hear the new Monitor's made in china ;)
 
denom said:
KEF Q300 speakers are a revelation in terms of what a good Book Shelf Design can do. Was completely surprised by levels of bass reproduction & overall large soundstage it creates. Everything going for it save for 1 odd observation: played the undernoted track

There was huge sound & driver distortion taking place resulting in the speaker clipping & farting (:D for want of a better word) that completely ruined every single good point of the speaker. That too at the amp volume at 10 o'clock. Found this an extremely un nerving & disappointing experience. Sales rep was also shocked to experience this. All this after he had waxed eloquently about how the speaker was burned in 'properly' for 200 odd hours & such :rolleyes:
The Denon 710AE amp is a neutral & somewhat laidback amp, hence shudder to think how the Q300's would have reacted with a brighter/forward sounding amp???
Click to expand...

First of all, thanks for the reviews. It really helps to have someone from the forum listen to various speakers and give their impressions.

I was a bit surprised to hear that the KEF Q300 distorted at higher volumes. Did it happen when all kinds of music was played at higher volumes ? Could it have been a faulty speaker ?

WhatHiFi said:
Great dynamic ability

The sort of dynamic variance only an enraged orchestra can generate is handled with unfussy competence: the sonic sweep from a whisper to a bellow is smoothly described by the KEFs and with no particular section of the frequency range hogging the limelight.

The Q300s' ability to suddenly play much, much louder without hardening or becoming noticeably shouty sets them apart from their rivals.


A switch to the more corporeal pleasures of Underworld's Push Upstairs reveals the KEFs to be just as happy on the dancefloor as in the symphony hall.

They handle the martial rhythm well, punching into the bass notes with straight-edged alacrity and exiting equally promptly, while the pedal-to-the-metal tempo snaps along entirely naturally.
Click to expand...
 
ssf said:
First of all, thanks for the reviews. It really helps to have someone from the forum listen to various speakers and give their impressions.

I was a bit surprised to hear that the KEF Q300 distorted at higher volumes. Did it happen when all kinds of music was played at higher volumes ? Could it have been a faulty speaker ?
Click to expand...

Hi,

It occurred only during this track which was played after listening to 8-10 odd tracks which were a mix of indian classical, bollywood, english pop/rock. Spiro, pls list the names of tracks we heard on your CD for benefit of all :)
Yes it appears that there was something wrong with this set of speakers but for that to be proven I need to have another demo of another set of Q300's with the same track played to find out if it occurs again or not. Another thing I would like to clarify is whether the other set sounds any different with respect to the burn-in hours it has been put through, since the pair we heard had supposedly crossed the 200 hours mark as revealed by the sales rep.
 
Spiro and Denom pretty much summarized everything! It was a day well spent with two cool guys with good knowledge. The demo CDs spiro brought was very handy as you get to compare two different AVR as close as possible, though the speakers and environment were quite different.

Feature wise, specification wise both (Denon 1612 and Yamaha V471) appears to be almost at par with each other.

Strictly speaking the audition room for Yamaha was pretty cramped so you ought to expect it to be harsh on your ears at even moderate volumes but surprisingly it was not the case. The yammy was more enjoyable with congestion / strain free output. The Denon did have a slightly bigger soundstage and overall it was a solid performer. But when it comes to details and precision, Yamaha wins hands down. The cost difference was as much as 25% (Yamaha being more expensive) but we thought it was worth it. It is the Burr-Brown DAC which makes the difference according to Spiro. IMHO if someone does a blind test, they won't call the 471 as a entry level receiver.

About the speaker package, the sales guy told RM705 is better than RM6750 but I am very uncomfortable with that. The centre channel is bigger in size (and atleast 40% heavier too) in the later. For all satellites, 705 drivers are 2.5" while 6750 has 3.25" titanium drivers. Size do matter atleast for same brand/ series. The RM705 was not able to handle the power of denon, it was congested and uncontrolled ruining the experience totally. But I had a good experience wih RM6750 which is why I wanted to buy it. According to me, having listened to all three, it is like RM6750 > 3400 > RM705. In any case, I had already decided to ditch the idea of speaker package and go for building components. Now that is almost over except for the sub :D
 
It was not that the Q300 was pouring out lot of bass when we noticed it coughing up. Infact while playing other tracks, it was sounding great with deep bass and wide movement of the cones. That adds to the confusion. WhatHifi is correct, at any volume it is not louder but the bass distortion was a shock for all of us.
 
denom said:
Hi,

Spiro, pls list the names of tracks we heard on your CD for benefit of all :)
Click to expand...

Tracks-
1.Swadesh theme
2.Ye jo Desh hai tera- Swadesh
3.A classical track with vocals & Tabla
4.Radha kaise na jale -Lagan
5.Oh palan hare -Lagan
6.Mehandi hai ranchane vali -Zubeda(?)
7.So gaye hai- Zubeda
8.Ustad fateha ali khan
9.Hotel California Eagles
Rest Denom you know better.I dont have menu on CD.:)
 
10. Money for nothing - Dire Straits
11. Brothers In arms - Dire Straits
12. Hey you - Pink Floyd
13. Money - Pink Floyd
 
Last saturday was another day of AVR comparison including Pioneer AVR.

1.Pioneer VSX-1021 with Dali concept towers(5.1)-


+


We played a scene from Wanted(hindi), some Demo clips.
The first thing which we found was details.I can hear some details from rear speakers too.The sound had pace & good effect.Surround effect was perfect & in X-men 2 scene ,I could feel the planes traveling from my back to fronts.
In some other scenes gunshots were delivered with good amount of power.
Pioneer was handling speakers with ease.There was very less to compare about.If I compare Onkyo 609 with pioneer 1021,I can say that pioneer is close to Onkyo in the terms of performance.Details & power is similar.Still onkyo has edge in lower end.Dialogs are powerful in Onkyo,but pioneer is not far behind.In music,pioneer is a step ahead.

Stereo was good.Little musical & with good separation.Vocals were good.With some tracks you can feel digital dryness,but not always.Still you need to pair it with correctly to overcome brightness.
Just compared 821 with 1021,the difference was audible.Music was better in 1021 as it has some better digital filters.In movies,yes 821 lacks a bit power.I can be as pioneer 821 was connected to different speakers,
OBSIDIAN 600HCP-




2.Denon 2312 + AAD towers-



Now all things changed.The sound signature.Overall sound became soft.Bass improved.treble softened,but not less.Vocal sounded a bit dull.Pioneer had clarity.Surround sound was good,but not as accurate as pioneer.I could hear background sound from rears,but nor as clear as pioneer.

Music had Denon coloration with good Bass,going a bit deeper than pioneer.Treble was sweat,but not vocals.There was no short on power,but less detailed.

3.Yamaha 371 + anthony gallo 5.1 sub/sat-



below average.The gunfire was very soft without any effect.Sound was very thin without much power.We felt that we are listening to a very dull system.We even didn't opted to listen music.No punch,power & effect.
Now it may be due to low power supply in this years asian models.So beware & take proper Demo with Yamaha *71 series.If you have read my earlier review with 467,you will remember that it was a good sounding machine.
So I cant blame only on speakers(sub/Sat).
 
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spirovious said:
Now it may be due to low power supply in this years asian models.So beware & take proper Demo with Yamaha *71 series.If you have read my earlier review with 467,you will remember that it was a good sounding machine.
So I cant blame only on speakers(sub/Sat).
Click to expand...

spiro

You advised me to buy Yamaha instead of Denon, now you make me sad :sad:

After auditioning some AVRs in heavy weight category, along with some mighty floorstanders, it is obvious that the puny 371 will sound dull especially when paired with those palm size speakers. They are in totally different leagues I guess.

Also you seem to be blessed by our guruji :D

You know that a higher wattage does not mean better / louder sound.
Acc. to me, the rated audio power depends on power supply but it is not directly proportional.
Just look at 667's specs. 90W x 7 channels continous means 630W total, but the supply is only 400W, where does the remaining power come from?

In short, it is a remote possibility that we will drive all channels at maximum power continously such that the demand exceeds the supply (it will damage the equipment).

Some surprises for you:
371 US / Asian models: 250W/ 250W
467 US/ Asian models: 270W/ 280W
471 US / Asian models: 270W/ 280W

471.jpg


:) Come on, why do we need reviews and auditions if performance is directly proportional to power supply.
 
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I had a chance to audition Denon 2312 with Polk RTi A5. The setup was kick@$$ for movies. Played some action scenes from Die Hard 4. The vocals were clear. Gun shorts were crisps. Imaging was great. Blasts had depth. I asked them to switch off the sub and replay the same scene. I was told the crossover was set at 100Hz. Not sure why they did it. Even there, the action was great. The speakers delivered great imaging and crisp sound for the action. Just the rumble is missing, but the intensity was there. I liked it. Now, i played some Rahman hits CD. I am bit disappointed with the softness of the music. The mids and lows are good. But, the highs seems to be soft. Overall, the music is warm. I can't recommend this setup for music. But, i can whole heartedly recommend this for movies. I took the RTi A5 with me that day. I know my Pioneer VSX21TXH is going to be bit better than Denon 2312 in music. I already know VSX21TXH capabilities in movies. So, i am not bothered about it. I'll be pairing them in a week as i am yet to purchase step down transformer.
 
@Santy- Though the performance of AVR is not only the matter of power supply,but the speaker sensitivity too.When I connected Yamaha 667 to Kef Q100 the other day,I couldnt get the same punch & impact which I get at Home.When checked ,I found sensitivity of Q100 is 86 where as Tannoy has 87.Then I connected 667 to polk RTi3(sensitivity 89),the sound changed & amp can drive the speakers well.

No doubt that Yamaha has better surround effect,but again before buying AVR,one should consider the type of speakers they have.

Well in your case not to worry,Energy has good sensitivity (which we discussed during purchased,even power requirement).:)

still power does matter with power hungry speakers.
Comparison of powersupply used in Yamaha ABR-
http://www.hifivision.com/surround-...82-yamaha-avr-owners-thread-67-71-series.html
Post 3.
 
Hi,
Got some time to demo some bookshelf speakers & stereo amps.Comparison was between CA S30, Tannoy F1, Tannoy V1 & Quad 11L.




First we connected CA AM5 to S30.CDp was CA 550.We started some demo tracks & initial impression was quite good.Bass was decent,vocals ok,but some how treble was edgy.We asked to change CDp as I felt S30 sounded better in Pune meet.So we tried Atoll CDp.But it was total unmatched did.Sound changed to total warm signature & no feeling of treble.So we tried 2rd option ,Onkyo CS-545 mini system with in built amp.It had 40w/ch @ 4 ohms.It did not have Aux out,so we connected speakers directly with speaker switch.
Now we can feel the balanced sound.Overall warm signature with perfect treble.Bass was deeper than previous combo.Vocals had some emotions now.Edginess in treble disappeared with good impact.We tested with Dar-de-dil & everyone were impressed.With some Tabala track,we felt liveliness in presentation.

Then we switched to Tannoy F1 & vocals were rounded now with some weight.Treble was good,but Bass/where was it we felt missing that what we were getting in S30.The Thump got lost.Switching back to S30,we could here it again.Only thing we found the vocals were not rounded & thicker than F1.
Still overall sound of S30 is preferred over F1.

Then we switched to Tannoy V1.Sorry to say we were confused to understand what kind of sound were we listening.After listening to other 2,V1 sounded soft,dull.Bass was not punchy as S30,vocals were not close to other 2,treble was soft.We couldnt enjoy it any more & changed to Quad 11L as 3rd option.
Now quad had something to make us smile.Bass was deeper than S30,also mid Bass was thicker.Vocals sounded reliable.Even no need of SW.Warm sound with silk treble.We compared it again with S30 & F1.F1 was good at mids & treble,but overall impact was less & so the treble.S30 was good though with good live presentation.In blind test,sometimes we were confused between Quad & S30.So you can imagine the strength of S30.

Now it was easy to pick up the winner(Quad) among these,but for the budget,S30 is real champ.Nothing to compromise,pure musical with emotions & live presentation.It will describe the CDp & stereo amp signature without adding coloration.I still remember that vocals were not that bad when connected to Xonar DAC + CA AM-5 amp.So may good combination make the things right.
Its a must listen speakers in Budget section & can present good sound stage without needing special tricks.

Thanks to TheCoolestone, Cherian, beebwa & his son for joining.A wonderful musical experience. Thanks to alliance4 for giving us total command.
Cheers.
 
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Hi friends,

Today I could get time to demo Boston acoustic A26 (BS),A225C & its rears.SW was ASW 250.AVR used was Yamaha RX-V667.



We started with Music & sorry to say Yamaha couldnt drive them well.We felt vocals were not anywhere close to center place.Treble was good,but not the best.Bass felt a bit boomy,not clean.We decided to connect A26 to Marantz M-CR503 & things changed totally.


Tonal quality changed with sweetness.Bass was controled now & vocals almost in the center.Details improved with good scale.So we were worried about HT,still went ahead.

Now we started with out demo clips & yamaha did drive speakers with ease.May be bass was handled well by SW.Movie details were good,center had clear sound & was realistic.The sound effect & details steering was perfect.
SW had very good Bass & was digging low enough was one's need.It was tight & fast.Not boomy at all.
Overall Boston series is must listen for serious alternative to popular brands.

Thanks Thecoolestone for joining me.
 
A couple of days ago had been to Fairdeal at Crawford market and heard the follwing
Pioneer mated with Focal Sib and Cub,
Marantz NR 1402 mated with Mirage Mx
Denon 1713 mated with Boston Acoustics Soundware XS SE

Was pleasantly surprised by Mirage and the Soundware.

Imran the person tending to the hifi section was quite knowledgeable and helpful as well.

Today went to Beats99 at Rmall mulund for an audition. Heard Paradigm 70 paired with Denon, and the system sounded well, but I felt that the bass was not as pronounced.

The gent there, Mr. Deepak was also very courteous and very knowledgeable. I think one can get the best of the prices at both these places.
 
Amazing Experience with Pulz speakers-

After Boston we had some time & suddenly we decided to audition Pulz speakers.
We must have seen Pulz surrounds in many Cinema Hall & so I was eager to listen to them.Fortunately we could demo then at last moment.

Now we got a chance to listen Pulz Diva Floor-stands ,a Diva Center,Alto bi-pole surrounds & a Pulz sub.
Towers had a Coaxial Driver & Bass driver.Both were around 5in & coaxial with a tweeter in ceter(like Kef).Center had only single Coaxial driver.
We connected Yamaha 667 to 5.1 setup & started again same clips.
As soon as wanted(Hindi) clip stated,we couldn't believe our ears.What a refined sound.Where should I start?Treble very detailed with great scale.Minor details were handled with ease.Speakers were making sure than not a single background sound misses.That to great scale.We felt that we were sitting in big cinema hall.
Coming to vocals,center was delivering with very ease.The depth,sound signature was ton notch.Bass,very fast & accurate.The sound signature was matching from left to right & to the rears.Only I felt that SW was not going that deep,may be it was raw.

We also started with music & Yamaha handled these towers very well.
Sound was amazing.Why,to the first time I could get best music driven though Yamaha.We felt no need of stereo amp.Bass was deep,treble very sweat,vocals dead in center.Fine details were audible with great scale & depth.Instruments were perfect & we has a jaw dropped experienced both in movies & music.They are much enjoyable speakers than other foreign brands in mid-fi category.
One must do audition & also can tell them that we are part of HFV family.We also asked them to arrange a group demo for HFV & they are ready for it in near future.They are finalizing their Home audio series & then give a better audition.

Lastly they show us a mosfet power amp with huge Torroidal transformer with extra large capacitors(1.5 in in diameter).Layout was similar for left & right channel.

Finally thanks again to Thecoolestone & help from FM DJ.Picures are awaited.
 
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