PQ comparison of DishTV HD and TataSky HD

[askii2]

DishTV HD and TataSky HD have been reviewed in this forum. However when it comes to a direct comparison, there hasn't been any, other than subjective opinions which have been questioned. I got my TataSky HD activated yesterday. I now have both DishTV HD and TataSky HD for a few days. I am posting comparative pictures for both, so people can see for themselves. I am also writing my (subjective) comparison.

Camera info -
Body - D3000 SLR
Lens - 70mm @ 4/f
Shutterspeed - 1/30s
ISO - 400
Used a tripod to ensure sharpness and consistency.

Following images are all 10MP saved in jpg format at 85% quality.

Discovery HDWORLD
DishTV Discovery HDWORLD
TataSky Discovery HDWORLD
I found both to be almost identical. There were differences some times, but they were too minor to help spot them between switches based on AVR. Perhaps two identical TVs kept side-by-side may reveal more.

ET Now
DishTV ET Now HD
TataSky ET Now SD
To my surprise, I found these to be equally good. DishTV's ETNow HD is shaper than TataSky's ETNow SD, but TataSky manages to cover-up for that in image cleanliness.

NDTV
DishTV NDTV
TataSky NDTV
Tata Sky's NDTV is slightly better than DishTV's because of a cleaner image, although both contain the same level of detail.

Other HD channels
DishTV Travel XP HD
TataSky Star Gold HD
TataSky Star Movies HD
TataSky Star Plus HD
TataSky Star World HD

I couldn't get Movies Now HD images as all movies they have shown since yesterday were of lower resolution or shot in dark.

Summary - TataSky HD is way better than DishTV HD as is already noted by Digit Magazine.

 

[haisaikat]

Amit, I am not saying this because i have only dish hd even frankly i morally support those forum members who call dish fraud hd. However in your comparison in 3 categories you have compared the two stbs and in 1 case you found tata sky to be slightly better than dish hd and then how come in your final opinion you conclude that TS is "way better" than Dish? Are there any other parameters that you have considered for drawing this conclusion that are not hilighted here?

 

[prankey]

Amit - Dish HD is FAR BETTER in terms of HD PQ, deinterlacing and upscaling! I am one of their WORST critic and quite irritated by their FRAUD HD campaign, however honestly, I completely fail to understand your comparison!

Also, I don't understand why we fail to compare audio altogether! Discovery HD World Audio in Dish HD is much better than the FAKE 5.1 created by TS. Also talking of ALL SD channels, they are mostly heavily compressed both in terms of DRC and MPEG compression. Particularly GEC's like Zee TV has practically MONO, bad quality sound as compared to practically CD quality stereo sound with excellent channel separation. Same applies to other GEC channels in both Hindi and English. Only Zee Studio, HBO, Times Now, CNBC TV18 and some more channels look better on TS and usually the picture is "clean" looking images make some of us believe TS gives better picture.. This "clean" picture is nothing but noise reduced, SOLID COLORED treatment by TS to increase the compression by taking macro blocks of same color instead of compressing pixels independently... This process significantly improve compression efficiently by making the picture look very synthetic due to limited number of solid colors and macro blocks of same color and we mistake it as "clean" picture!!! Audio really expose TS's extreme compression and we never bother to even consider it for such comparison!

Almost all the SD and HD channels look better on Dish HD with an exception of some of the HD channels like Nat Geo which has real 5.1 sound in TS while Dish gives stereo till now. Dish TV used to do such extreme compression of Audio and Video some 4 years back like TS, however has significantly improved over the years... While TS as some have suggested worsened the quality of their SD channels.

One major USP of TS is lower subscription charges for the channels you see and lowest cost of HD channels. And obviously Star HD channels are the biggest USP of TS.

 

[askii2]

Amit, I am not saying this because i have only dish hd even frankly i morally support those forum members who call dish fraud hd.

While I too have expressed reservations about DishTV's unethical practices, I too would like this thread to be purely based on technicalities.

However in your comparison in 3 categories you have compared the two stbs and in 1 case you found tata sky to be slightly better than dish hd and then how come in your final opinion you conclude that TS is "way better" than Dish? Are there any other parameters that you have considered for drawing this conclusion that are not hilighted here?

Good catch; I must admit I drifted. I started off this thread with intention of keeping it restricted to Picture Quality. The "way better" is derived from more number of HD channels of same quality. So purely based on the quality of HD channels, TSHD is only slightly better.

Amit - Dish HD is FAR BETTER in terms of HD PQ, deinterlacing and upscaling! I am one of their WORST critic and quite irritated by their FRAUD HD campaign, however honestly, I completely fail to understand your comparison!

Also, I don't understand why we fail to compare audio altogether!

The title of the thread says picture quality comparison . The real reason for not including audio comparison is time constraints. I required 6 hours to get these pictures and post them. 3 hours were spent in adjusting camera. The process to click one photo and check it on my laptop was aprox. 10mins. I am not joking! Another 2 hours in clicking photos and 1 hour for posting!

I am also thinking of ways to compare audio. Any suggestions?

Only Zee Studio, HBO, Times Now, CNBC TV18 and some more channels look better on TS and usually the picture is "clean" looking images make some of us believe TS gives better picture. This "clean" picture is nothing but noise reduced, SOLID COLORED treatment by TS to increase the compression by taking macro blocks of same color instead of compressing pixels independently... This process significantly improve compression efficiently by making the picture look very synthetic due to limited number of solid colors and macro blocks of same color and we mistake it as "clean" picture!!!

I have worked on an H.264 codec (x264) and understand very well where the "cleanliness" arises from. DishTV's output has sharp edges which look bad when you sit close to a TV. Whatever the reason may be, if it (TS HD box's SD channel) appears better, it's better. I have posted in the past that DishTV's per channel HD bandwidth is higher than TataSky's. I am surprised that they can't get the best out of it.

 

[Kuberam]

Hello everybody,

I have Philips 32 inch HD ready LCD, first I bought Tatasky Sd connection their service was excellent, prompt customer care., Only problem is that they have only 11 tamil channels compared to all other DTH services this is the lowest.

So I went for Dish TV truHD and installed in March 2011. The service executive came and installed and I got all south platinum package channels including 30 HD channels, but the guy told me that this is only temporarily activated connection for 2 days and once my VC no is registered then only my connection would be permanently connected. And he also told me that within 24 hours Vc number will be registered, but did not happen that way.

After 2 days I could not view a single channel and got the message I need to activate my a/c, when I contacted customer care they say some technical problem will be rectified soon. But they could not activate my a/c for 4 days, I got much irritated as I could not watch cricket world cup.

I went to Dish Tv chennai office shouted at the staff and they activated my a/c. As the direct HD channels of Discovery HDworld, National geographic HD channels the picture quality is excellent as I get sharper digital crystal clear picture with superior color combination. Other HD channels are upscaled and compared to Tatasky SD the picture quality and Audo are better and as I connected my Lcd via HDMI cable of DishTV setup box. All channels I get through 1080i picture format.

My philips Lcd HDMI supports HDPC (High bandwidth Digital Content Protection) so I think I get digital crystal clear picture.

Customer service worst in dishtv, once an excutive put me on hold for 7 mts and never restored my connection and I disconnected the line. The executives do not even know the basic knowledge that HD connection comes with HDMI cable. So do not go for DishtV though you get sharper picture customer care is worst compared to Tatasky.

 

[borg]

Hello everybody,


My philips Lcd HDMI supports HDPC (High bandwidth Digital Content Protection) so I think I get digital crystal clear picture.

.

HDCP has nothing to do with picture clarity, it is a copying prevention protocol

 

[no1lives4ever]

Doing a PQ comparision of video sources with still pictures is not a very valid form of comparision. This is very true for TS HD as the PQ artifacts seen on TS HD are mostly motion related.

On TS HD, you will see blurry scenes whenever there is a lot of motion on the screen. Same scenes look smooth and clear on Dish TruHD.

Overall, both of these sources are significantly worse than a downloaded 1080p mkv file and in most cases worse than good quality 720p downloaded MKV files. BluRay discs are a cut above the downloaded MKV files.

-- no1lives4ever

 

[prankey]

The title of the thread says picture quality comparison . The real reason for not including audio comparison is time constraints. I required 6 hours to get these pictures and post them. 3 hours were spent in adjusting camera. The process to click one photo and check it on my laptop was aprox. 10mins. I am not joking! Another 2 hours in clicking photos and 1 hour for posting!

I absolutely appreciate your efforts dude. I know how much time and effort it takes and thats why held back from starting such threads when I was pissed off by both TS and Dish for different reason (as you know )

I am also thinking of ways to compare audio. Any suggestions?

I think its important we do this comparison in this thread only as I have observed we do a lot of PQ comparison and forget about (or ignore) audio particularly on SD channels.. Where most of the current SD channels offer almost CD quality sound like those upscaled HD channels in Dish TV.

If you have an HT with good 5.1 speakers (I would prefer towers like I have including center speakers ), you could connect both STBs through digital outputs to you HT or AVR and do the comparison for each channels. My Dish HD connection is not active right now and I might be able to put a rough comparison like before based on my earlier observation... particularly emphasizing the most distinguished channels among both... let me know if I should do that in this thread or if you would like to do it..

I have worked on an H.264 codec (x264) and understand very well where the "cleanliness" arises from. DishTV's output has sharp edges which look bad when you sit close to a TV. Whatever the reason may be, if it (TS HD box's SD channel) appears better, it's better. I have posted in the past that DishTV's per channel HD bandwidth is higher than TataSky's. I am surprised that they can't get the best out of it.

So we both know what TS is doing to achieve this cleanliness... I accept that it looks more pleasant to look at most of the SD channels on TS, however this "clean" looking picture sometimes make it very tough to look at some text or graphics which becomes very blurred at times... and the background and motion becomes quite hazy on TS because of more compression which usually generate blockiness in Dish TV for SD channels and HD looks very good even in motion and complex scenes... HD is particularly distinguished when we look at some landscaping with a lot of moving grass or water or underwater scenes... Dish HD sometimes show more than TWICE as clear motion in these sequences... This difference in motion quality is more than we compare between an HD Ready and Full HD TV from comparable models and obviously more significant then comparing motion resolution of TVs...

Those sharper edges on Dish HD is because it doesn't do any DEBLOCKING either during upscaling on the STB or during compression... This is the reason we see more content (though some times blocky and pixellated) in Dish HD, while TS images look washed out at times...

However, I can still accept TS at its current form primarily for giving most number of HD channels and 5.1 audio at least cost. However if this landscape change in the near future, I will certainly think otherwise.

So, either TS should concentrate entirely in bringing more HD channels and forgetting about SD channels altogether (like what they are pretty much doing currently particularly in terms of Audio) or improve the quality of SD channels to be atleast comparable to Dish SD channels...

 

[shyam.b]

DishTV HD and TataSky HD have been reviewed in this forum. However when it comes to a direct comparison, there hasn't been any, other than subjective opinions which have been questioned. I got my TataSky HD activated yesterday. I now have both DishTV HD and TataSky HD for a few days. I am posting comparative pictures for both, so people can see for themselves. I am also writing my (subjective) comparison.

Camera info -
Body - D3000 SLR
Lens - 70mm @ 4/f
Shutterspeed - 1/30s
ISO - 400
Used a tripod to ensure sharpness and consistency.

Following images are all 10MP saved in jpg format at 85% quality.

Discovery HDWORLD
DishTV Discovery HDWORLD
TataSky Discovery HDWORLD
I found both to be almost identical. There were differences some times, but they were too minor to help spot them between switches based on AVR. Perhaps two identical TVs kept side-by-side may reveal more.

ET Now
DishTV ET Now HD
TataSky ET Now SD
To my surprise, I found these to be equally good. DishTV's ETNow HD is shaper than TataSky's ETNow SD, but TataSky manages to cover-up for that in image cleanliness.

NDTV
DishTV NDTV
TataSky NDTV
Tata Sky's NDTV is slightly better than DishTV's because of a cleaner image, although both contain the same level of detail.

Other HD channels
DishTV Travel XP HD
TataSky Star Gold HD
TataSky Star Movies HD
TataSky Star Plus HD
TataSky Star World HD

I couldn't get Movies Now HD images as all movies they have shown since yesterday were of lower resolution or shot in dark.

Summary - TataSky HD is way better than DishTV HD as is already noted by Digit Magazine.

I agree to most of the above things. I used both Dish & TS HD boxes & my observations (on PQ only) are below:

National Geo, Discovery HD -> both are same
English Movies -> StarMovies HD on TS better than MoviesNow on Dish (especially very irritating ghosting/blurring)
Hindi Movies -> Star Gold on TS is much better than Zee Cinema HD for new movies (ex: ramayana the epic shown yesterday was incredible). For older movies, both are same
Regional channels --> TS is better, except for the Zee (HD) channels
Kids channels --> dish is better
Sports channels --> Dish is better for all Ten (HD) channels, rest are better on TS
Entertainment channels --> star Plus, star World HD on TS are better than the counterparts on Dish
In general, whatever upscaled channels are labeled as HD in DishHD, they are definitely better than those in TS. For rest, TS is better.

I can't comment on Audio Quality, as my Home theater setup is not in place.

 

[shyam.b]

Amit - Dish HD is FAR BETTER in terms of HD PQ, deinterlacing and upscaling!

May be TS STBs are improved in last few months?
I read comments that PQ is horrible for SD channels on Tatasky Plus only. May be they fixed something? My box has Mfg date of Apr 11. I booked during 1st week of May as soon their booking commenced.
I guess Amit also got his box recently.

 

[askii2]

Yes, it was installed last Thursday 19th May.

May be TS STBs are improved in last few months?
I read comments that PQ is horrible for SD channels on Tatasky Plus only. May be they fixed something? My box has Mfg date of Apr 11. I booked during 1st week of May as soon their booking commenced.
I guess Amit also got his box recently.

 

[askii2]

Doing a PQ comparision of video sources with still pictures is not a very valid form of comparision. This is very true for TS HD as the PQ artifacts seen on TS HD are mostly motion related.

On TS HD, you will see blurry scenes whenever there is a lot of motion on the screen. Same scenes look smooth and clear on Dish TruHD.

If someone can shoot videos that'll be fantastic.

Overall, both of these sources are significantly worse than a downloaded 1080p mkv file and in most cases worse than good quality 720p downloaded MKV files. BluRay discs are a cut above the downloaded MKV files.
-- no1lives4ever

Both TS and Dish hd bit rates are < 2Mbps. Many downloaded mkv files are of higher bitrates. BDs are 12Mbps to 18Mbps.

 

[prankey]

I agree to most of the above things. I used both Dish & TS HD boxes & my observations (on PQ only) are below:

National Geo, Discovery HD -> both are same
English Movies -> StarMovies HD on TS better than MoviesNow on Dish (especially very irritating ghosting/blurring)
Hindi Movies -> Star Gold on TS is much better than Zee Cinema HD for new movies (ex: ramayana the epic shown yesterday was incredible). For older movies, both are same
Regional channels --> TS is better, except for the Zee (HD) channels
Kids channels --> dish is better
Sports channels --> Dish is better for all Ten (HD) channels, rest are better on TS
Entertainment channels --> star Plus, star World HD on TS are better than the counterparts on Dish
In general, whatever upscaled channels are labeled as HD in DishHD, they are definitely better than those in TS. For rest, TS is better.

I can't comment on Audio Quality, as my Home theater setup is not in place.

You have compared some of the upscaled channels like Zee Cinema with real HD channel like Star Gold HD... This is VERY FOOLISH way of comparison as upscaled channels can NEVER match real HD channels!

You don't need a complex setup to check audio quality.. Any headphone connected to your TV can do! TS has terrible Dynamic Range Compression on most of the SD channels which is quite apparent when listening through headphones... Those random audio drops, jitters and spikes and also roaming sound from Discovery HD and Max HD are easily distinguishable..

You talked of Movies Now "Ghosting and Blurring" (which is an issue only on RDTV and only some movies had BIT bad masters like on Star HD channels as well - though all movies on Movies Now are mastered in HD unlike Star HD channels other than Star Plus). Infact the audio on Movies Now is terribly distorted especially at bass (particularly subwoofer) frequencies which is QUITE AUDIBLE on regular TV speakers as well!! Not sure if you really are observing these issues or have become selective (based on some other people's feedback) in giving your feedback?

I am not sure how are we tolerating DRC and Mono sound from Zee TV and talking about other more advanced things...

May be TS STBs are improved in last few months?
I read comments that PQ is horrible for SD channels on Tatasky Plus only. May be they fixed something? My box has Mfg date of Apr 11. I booked during 1st week of May as soon their booking commenced.
I guess Amit also got his box recently.

I don't believe that can have been fixed as I am still working with TS top management and they never communicated such fix to have been passed on the newer hardware... However, I will try to find if something was "fixed" on the newer hardware...

If someone can shoot videos that'll be fantastic.

We really can't click photos or shoot videos unless we have professional cameras to capture accurate info...

You could see it yourself... See something live on Dish HD on Nat Geo or Discovery HD while recording the same on TS+HD.. Play back what is recorded on these channels and particularly on those complex sequence I am talking about.. the picture gets terribly pixellated almost like a SD compressed video on TS which never happens on Dish HD... Even after this if you do not see the difference, I really cant comment on your "observation"

I am not trying to be biased, however trying to suggest that it is possible that not all of us can distinguish or notice these issues which might be more apparent to some of us.. Especially when you suggest you prefer cleaner picture on TS and do not worry about the hazy backgrounds and blurred images... it all boils down to personal preference on SD PQ... However, I am sure we will have general consensus on the SQ between these two especially after blind listening test through headphones...

 

[shyam.b]

You have compared some of the upscaled channels like Zee Cinema with real HD channel like Star Gold HD... This is VERY FOOLISH way of comparison as upscaled channels can NEVER match real HD channels!

I find the comparison genuine due to 2 reasons:
1. STAR also upscales few movies just like Zee.
2. If someone refers to the forum to check the differences, there is no harm in being explicit that Star Gold HD is better than Zee Cinema HD. Yes, that's how Dish calls it, and there are people who fall for it.

Not sure if you really are observing these issues or have become selective (based on some other people's feedback) in giving your feedback?
Audio is bad on almost all channels. There is some hissing element on lot of channels.
Everyone has their own pattern of thinking. Be courteous before saying things like FOOLISH. If you cannot tolerate others' comments, join another forum.

 

[prankey]

You have compared some of the upscaled channels like Zee Cinema with real HD channel like Star Gold HD... This is VERY FOOLISH way of comparison as upscaled channels can NEVER match real HD channels!

I find the comparison genuine due to 2 reasons:
1. STAR also upscales few movies just like Zee.
2. If someone refers to the forum to check the differences, there is no harm in being explicit that Star Gold HD is better than Zee Cinema HD. Yes, that's how Dish calls it, and there are people who fall for it.

Not sure if you really are observing these issues or have become selective (based on some other people's feedback) in giving your feedback?
Audio is bad on almost all channels. There is some hissing element on lot of channels.
Everyone has their own pattern of thinking. Be courteous before saying things like FOOLISH. If you cannot tolerate others' comments, join another forum.

Dude, I am not attacking you on something... I did write in my earlier post that much content is still upscaled on Star HD channels. I said foolish because it was silly to call upscaled Zee Cinema as HD... I know you did get my point... Wasn't I courteous in replying to you? We should never support the "HD" lie Dish TV is trying to propagate.. And why should I go to another forum to register my concern???

 

[prankey]

I agree with Rick.. Taking photos or video of the TV Screen may not help... Captured video and snapshots from them will certainly help... I can do that, however only have SD capture card so may not be able to evaluate HD picture... Also, my Dish HD connection is deactive as I am looking for heavy compensation from them for what they have done to me and the audio glitches of HD channels which they still doesn't seem to have resolve particularly on Movies Now, Travel XP, etc.. I believe TS is doing automatic volume leveling on their SD channels to avoid such audio issues through DRC which is ultimately completely killing the dynamic range of the audio... Similar techniques (noise filtering and deblocking) is killing PQ of GEC content (particularly in complex scenes)... So we basically can not choose between them and only that TS seems more value for money if we could tolerate those terribly compressed SD channels...

 

[askii2]

Captured video and snapshots from them will certainly help... I can do that, however only have SD capture card so may not be able to evaluate HD picture...

You can capture only a part of the screen. Say upper right quadrant to include the logo.

 

[arnprasad]

Overall, both of these sources are significantly worse than a downloaded 1080p mkv file and in most cases worse than good quality 720p downloaded MKV files. BluRay discs are a cut above the downloaded MKV files.

-- no1lives4ever

Hi..I dont want to sound it like a piracy question but since there has been a mentionof downloading mkv files.......like mp3 audio are these files sold in known electronic hubs of major cities on hard drives? downloading these 10-15 GB files takes forever plus they are pretty costly too.

I live in Bangalore and would appreciate if you could let me know a way to access such mkv files.

And normally how do you play such files? I have a hacked Nintendo Wii that cannot play files higher than DVD quality. I also have a Gateway with i5 processor and intel graphics...it too struggles when I use VLC to play.