Question about Marantz Integrated 7005 amp, DAC, Confused! Please help.

[arana]

Hi everyone

I tested the Marantz 7005 Integrated Amp with B&W 684 and 685's over the weekend, and was blown away by this amp. We tested some models of the Rotel too, but they simply can't compare to the warm sound of the Marantz in my opinion.

I'm almost about to buy this one, and have been reading up on this ever since. The description claims this amp has a built in DAC, so you can connect whatever source you have some semblance of an analog sound (at least that's what I understand, please excuse my ignorance, I'm slowly learning about hifi). However, the dealer was using some external DAC with this amp, and was recommending that I should invest in one some time in the future. I'm buying this set up primarily for a Turntable as my source, but I will buy a DVD/CD Player soon enough, which is why I'm interested in understanding the difference.

Can someone tell me if I need to buy an external DAC (the one he showed me looked like a wireless router and was almost 30k!!) for an amp of this nature? Does it make a significant difference in the sound, would really appreciate responses from anyone who's familiar with this amp, or this issue. If yes, can someone please recommend some cheaper DAC which would do the job, don't think I can afford to invest 30k as of now. Thanks a lot !

 

[mikehcm]

You dont require an external DAC, this amp by itself has flagship DAC from cirrus logic (CS4398) and this sounds great IMHO. Try listing without the external DAC, if possible take your turntable to dealer's location and see how it sounds. Would require the make and model of the external DAC for more comments.

 

[drgb]

Having listened to the 6005, The 7005 should be a great amp. Kudos on the choice!
Anyway, coming to your question, the 7005 comes with a built in DAC that supports high-resolution audio files of up to 24-bit/192kHz sampling rates. This means that it can playback such high-res audio files from a "Digital" audio source ;in this case a source with an 'optical' or 'coaxial' out (CD players, DVD players, Satellite receivers, TV's, etc.) & a USB-OUT such as a PC or a mobile device (as it can also take a USB input).
The built in DAC will more than take care of your Vinyl, CD and PC inputs. You do not need to buy a separate DAC.

However there is one factor worth considering and that is upgradability. If you're the 'get-and-forget' kind or if space is an issue then the marantz is a no brainer. But if you would like to upgrade your set-up in the future or want a still-better sound than the marantz, I would recommend you go for a simple amp (with phono inputs for your turntable) that does not come with a built-in DAC and pair it with a dedicated DAC with a range of inputs. This combo will not only sound better/as good as the marantz but will also be more practical to upgrade.

 

[sound_cycle]

I tested the Marantz 7005 Integrated Amp with B&W 684 and 685's <snip>

I have had the PM6005 / Dali Z5 for about a year now. To my ears it is a very good combination

I'm almost about to buy this one, and have been reading up on this ever since. The description claims this amp has a built in DAC, so you can connect whatever source you have some semblance of an analog sound (at least <snip>

It does have a DAC based on the Cirrus Logic CS3498 chip. That is the same as on their CD players or network players. However the chip is only part of the DAC and apparently it is the implementation/ analog stage one needs to be concerned about

Can someone tell me if I need to buy an external DAC (the one he showed me looked like a wireless router and was almost 30k!!) for an amp of this nature? Does it make a significant difference in the sound, would really appreciate responses from anyone who's familiar with this amp, or this issue. If yes, can someone please recommend some cheaper DAC which would do the job, don't think I can afford to invest 30k as of now. Thanks a lot !

I have very little time with an outboard DAC (just one hr with the updated sig).

Sure there are improvement/ differences and it is supposed to get bigger after about a 100 hrs (I am burn in agnostic, it made a difference to my speakers, but this is a box of all sorts of things), so far it is the subtle stuff, tuneful bass, Paradise City is no longer muddy. Over all smoother (I may come back and restate this later!)

ATM there is nothing which makes me loathe the sound of the PM6005.

So I would say categorically no, on my experience, you will not need to buy an external DAC**. To my ears and tastes the PM6005 is nice and capable and a good buy

ciao
gr

** at least for a year

 

[goose]

Agree with all of the comments above. I've got a CD6004, it obviously does have a built-in DAC that has no external connections, though I hear the newer CD6005 does have a DAC that supports external digital inputs).

To my knowledge the Marantz DACs are quite reputed by themselves and there is no need for another external DAC whatsoever.

Suggest you spend that money getting some good quality interconnects!

Hope the inputs were of some use to you.

 

[asliarun]

One of the fastest changing and evolving aspects of audio is digital formats, and especially high res. For that reason alone, I would not recommend buying an integrated amp with a built-in DAC.

I also say this because although you are paying a lot of money for this amp, 20% more gives you the 8005, which is the top end Marantz amp - and is significantly better than the 7005 in almost every single way. To put it differently, all the money you will spend on the 8005 goes directly into a better quality preamp and power amp - which is the best return of investment in terms of money and audio quality. Note that the 8005 has significantly better power ratings, much better current capacity (control of your speakers), has a toroid transformer which the 7005 does not.

I am guessing now, but I also imagine that the 8005's phono stage would be better if not equal to the phono stage of 7005. Based on specs alone, 8005's phono stage has better signal/noise ratio compared to 7005. And more than anything, you want your phono stage to be as good as possible as it is the most fragile/susceptible part of your chain. DACs are dime a dozen on the other hand, and even $100 DACs give you really good audio quality.

Which also leads me to the question - did you audition the 7005 with a TT setup? If not, is it possible for you to do that? And also do a side by side comparison with 8005?

Just my two cents. To summarize: Not saying the 7005 is a bad choice at all - just presenting options and trade offs.

 

[drgb]

And more than anything, you want your phono stage to be as good as possible as it is the most fragile/susceptible part of your chain.

Very good point. As the OPs' needs are primarily an amp for a TT, this is a very important aspect to consider. However numbers themselves don't quite represent real world performance and thus how much the 8005 will be superior in this aspect can only be found out by auditioning both amps together. Completely agreed.

The kind of money that the OP is spending is quite significant. In the world of audio, no amount of money can bring you a sense of satiety. What is "best" now will be "second" tomorrow.

I would suggest you search for more options, instead of fixating on how good the 7005 or 8005 sound. There are a couple of good alternatives from NAD, Rotel, Teac, Onkyo, Yamaha, etc.; and the list is endless. You could even look for used ones, this much money can buy you a very good Nakamichi, Naim, Music fidelity, etc. Go for a simple amp as I said; pair it with a good DAC and you will be astounded at what you can get for the same (or even lesser) than the price of the 7005/8005.

And yeah, don't spend this money without auditioning with your own gear.

 

[arana]

Hi Guys

Thanks so much for your replies, which I did not realize were posted, as it seemed I turned off email notifications! Sorry about the delay.

Anyhow, now I have actually bought this amp so the comparison with the 8005 threw me off, having said that, I had a budget of about 2 lakh for the amp and the speakers, and along with the wiring, installation charges (can't believe Delhi dealers charge for this considering the inflated price of this equipment anyway, it came up to an amount I could no longer exceed!

I did not get a chance to try this amp with a TT, but I didn't bother about that much, as I will invest in an entry level TT anyway (possibly Project) as I want to see how committed I am to collecting LP's long term.

One of the posters have recommended for me to invest in a simpler amp and buy an external DAC instead, I'm not sure what simple means.. but to give an idea of the kind of sound I'm interested in, I also tried the Lyrita 2ac SET tube amp while I was shopping around for equipment, and that was something I really wanted to buy if I had the money for both! The LP's played by Viren really sounded as if I was hearing BB king live in front of me, however I couldn't go for that as of now for various reasons. I do want to buy a tube amp, but I realize I'll have to change my speakers to hook that up with the TT.. can think of that only in later months.

Anyhow, I'm waiting for a friend from Germany to get my TT, which I will try with this amp to see how it sounds. Right now, the set up sounds really nice, however the sound .. seems very "collected", as in I feel as if I won't get the clarity I need on a low - key song, eg..some sitar, ozric tentacles etc, I've tried it and the clarity takes a while to kick in.. I'd like the sound to be a bit more spaced out and clear/separate. Wondering if a DAC or something else helps with that? Or i just need the amp to play for a few weeks.

Alternately, I can try and shift the placement of the speakers but there's only so much I can do with floor standers!