Questions about speaker cables
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Rupam
Well-Known Member
Get DAC 12 AWG speaker cable. DAC SPK14 AWG OFC Dual Speaker Cable
They are very good. Don't put too much money in cables. You won't notice any discernible improvement.
They are very good. Don't put too much money in cables. You won't notice any discernible improvement.
Hifimart won't supply to West Bengal, where I am located, they say. There is some requirement of Form 50 they said. Very strange. I have bought 100s of items online, including electronic items, and they have all come without any need for Form 50. Any other option online?
If you have a good system capable of revealing fine details of music with different quality cables and looking for not too expensive cables, look at the VH Audio (USA) website. Chris' speaker cable itself, called Chela, is great and he also sells good quality cables from Neotech and the latest Oyaide (for $20 a foot). All these cables are being used by several DIY people known to me and reported to be excellent and value for money. Of course, you need to get good connectors also with them.
I am not a DIY person, and hence use readymade interconnects and speaker cables from Audioquest, Kimber, Wireworld etc. All my power cords are from VH Audio and I never regretted having bought them. To be specific, I use the Flavor-4 power cords with Furutech and Oyaide Schuko connectors. I am also considering to try the Airsine power cord for my amplifier in the near future.
However, if your system is not good enough to differentiate and fine tune, better settle for the stock cables and avoid spending money for the Monsters, DACs and others.
Finally, spend wisely for the shortest speaker cables of better quality. I wonder why you need 7ft cable for each speaker. If you can place your amplifier somewhere between them and settle for 3 or 4 ft and spend the same money, you will get better results.
Good luck.
murali
I am not a DIY person, and hence use readymade interconnects and speaker cables from Audioquest, Kimber, Wireworld etc. All my power cords are from VH Audio and I never regretted having bought them. To be specific, I use the Flavor-4 power cords with Furutech and Oyaide Schuko connectors. I am also considering to try the Airsine power cord for my amplifier in the near future.
However, if your system is not good enough to differentiate and fine tune, better settle for the stock cables and avoid spending money for the Monsters, DACs and others.
Finally, spend wisely for the shortest speaker cables of better quality. I wonder why you need 7ft cable for each speaker. If you can place your amplifier somewhere between them and settle for 3 or 4 ft and spend the same money, you will get better results.
Good luck.
murali
keith_correa
Well-Known Member
Buy good quality teflon coated CAT5 cable. 4 lengths per side. Braid the 4 lengths together. From the twisted strands, connect all the colored ones together for one pole and the rest for the other pole.
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
If I buy cables again, I'm going to go Blue Jeans Cables.
I'm a cable sceptic, but I am not at all sceptical about the things that can go wrong at the joins/connectors, and I love this idea:
If I'm not careful. I'm going to be accused of advertising this company. In fact, I must confess I have not even bought anything from them as yet, so I'm not speaking from experience (I think at least one other HFVer has their cables though). It's just that I really like their philosophy as I see it on their site, and this is the first cable company I can say that of.
Suggest reading one or two of their articles and stuff before forming opinion, either positive or negative: there is some very interesting stuff there.
I'm a cable sceptic, but I am not at all sceptical about the things that can go wrong at the joins/connectors, and I love this idea:
If I'm not careful. I'm going to be accused of advertising this company. In fact, I must confess I have not even bought anything from them as yet, so I'm not speaking from experience (I think at least one other HFVer has their cables though). It's just that I really like their philosophy as I see it on their site, and this is the first cable company I can say that of.
Suggest reading one or two of their articles and stuff before forming opinion, either positive or negative: there is some very interesting stuff there.
Here is what one user says:
I have the 10-gauge Blue Jeans speaker wire with their ultrasonically welded bananas. I don't know if it's the wire or the ultrasonic welding or what, but when I use this wire there's a glassy sheen to the sound perhaps what some others here have referred to as "harshness." I experienced this with both my Parasound JC2/A21 combination as well as my Cary SLI-80 Signature with Dynaudio Audience 72 and also Magnepan MG12.
When I switched to the "Wired Home" (formerly Dayton Audio branded) 10-gauge speaker wire sold by Parts Express, things got much better, to my ears anyway, and the price is low.
I have so far kept out of howlers by depending more on feedbacks from users who analyse critically with more technical reasoning, rather than blindly believing any manufacturer's claims. Not all users, of course, but there are always some out there who have passion and commitment to understand better within one's own logic and reasoning.
I still believe a low-priced cable like Kimber 8TC with good WBT or Furutech or similar connectors assembled with hands will certainly sound better than many sold under coverage of countering "snake-oil theories".
To complete the story, I also used the long DAC cables for my surround speakers long back but when I changed to low-priced Kimber wires, there was a day-night difference. Just my experience and views, no offences meant.
Bye and cheers.
murali
I have the 10-gauge Blue Jeans speaker wire with their ultrasonically welded bananas. I don't know if it's the wire or the ultrasonic welding or what, but when I use this wire there's a glassy sheen to the sound perhaps what some others here have referred to as "harshness." I experienced this with both my Parasound JC2/A21 combination as well as my Cary SLI-80 Signature with Dynaudio Audience 72 and also Magnepan MG12.
When I switched to the "Wired Home" (formerly Dayton Audio branded) 10-gauge speaker wire sold by Parts Express, things got much better, to my ears anyway, and the price is low.
I have so far kept out of howlers by depending more on feedbacks from users who analyse critically with more technical reasoning, rather than blindly believing any manufacturer's claims. Not all users, of course, but there are always some out there who have passion and commitment to understand better within one's own logic and reasoning.
I still believe a low-priced cable like Kimber 8TC with good WBT or Furutech or similar connectors assembled with hands will certainly sound better than many sold under coverage of countering "snake-oil theories".
To complete the story, I also used the long DAC cables for my surround speakers long back but when I changed to low-priced Kimber wires, there was a day-night difference. Just my experience and views, no offences meant.
Bye and cheers.
murali
Hi Murali,
Very interesting read. Going by the feedback of the users, it looks like that a cable of a particular make may work well in one setup, but not the same in a different setup. Just like "amplifier-speaker" mating, speaker cable mating with a particular setup seems to be the case as well. Okay, let me ask few questions for my learning.
1. You have pointed out that the good audio systems (capable of picking up the finer details of sound) can see differences between cables of different quality. Let's say a particular brand speaker cable has a very good quality parameter set (low Resitance/inductance/capacitance).
Does the same cable perform good in one setup and perform the other way in a different setup (assuming both the setups are audiophile grade systems) ?
2. If your answer to the above question is "YES", then how can one choose the right cable for his/her system ? I am not sure if auditioning different cables with a setup is practical or economical. Or is it that one will find a good cable for his setup through the pocess of evolution (just like you did with your DAC cable earlier and then evolved to kimber) ?
3. In one of my posts in this thread, I have posted a DIY link for cable. The DIYer has claimed that parameters of the DIY cable were too good for the investment made in making that cable. I am just wondering why that is not popular when it is easier and economical to make it. I understand DIY projects is time consuming, but that is not the case with the DIY speaker cables. So any thoughts on that ?
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
For all my scepticism, I do admit that, among high-end cable manufacturers, Kimber gets a good press, even from measurers. See the Audioholics review, and, one of my favourites, the Van Alstine cable challenge. To quote from the very end of the latter is too much of a spoiler: reading the whole thing is much more interesting!
So far as connectors are concerned, much as I like the idea of ultrasonic welding (there have to be things that even sceptics fall for
) I'm not sure that bare ends might not be best. Although welding seeks to eliminate it, every connector adds an additional metal-to-metal interface, with its chances of loosening connections, oxidisation, etc etc.
So far as connectors are concerned, much as I like the idea of ultrasonic welding (there have to be things that even sceptics fall for
) I'm not sure that bare ends might not be best. Although welding seeks to eliminate it, every connector adds an additional metal-to-metal interface, with its chances of loosening connections, oxidisation, etc etc.
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The trouble with most of us having gone through science and engineering is that we tend to find answers to everything on steady state basis. A cable's attributes are essentially L, C and R, plus shielding, but the truth is that no one has so far been able to objectively correlate these cable parameters to sonic attributes like noise floor, imaging, soundstage, details, speed, frequency response etc. Simple bench measurements will show that most cables measure close to flat and will be close to each other, using static loads and test rig. Unfortunately, in the real world, when we hook up these cables to real components and use them in a room playing music with soundwaves filling the room, with a real speaker load, real power amp loads, RF signals and EM fields present from other components, things change. If as the objectives say we already know the answers, several good engineers can play around with the LCR parameters, provide the best shielding, and create the ultimate cables which you and I will buy as long as it is affordable.
It is not just speaker impedance that matters when you use the same cable among different setups. For example, high impedance cables generally allow you to get away with less optimised cables but many forget that it is also a function of the output impedance of the power amplifier. Like in tube amps with higher output impedance, you may probably need low-inductance speaker cables to get the most out of your amplifier and speaker. This is because the cable impedance forms a low-pass filter (eliminates highs) with the higher output impedance of the amplifier.
So your question is how to choose the right cable for your system. Please note that cables make difference in sound, whether it is better or worse can only be decided by you being subjective. What did I do? First before spending on exotic cables, I invested in components (source, amplification, speaker), plus good recordings, to ensure that I have got a system revealing and resolving enough to make me enjoy the music and show differences. Next, I communicated with others using similar equipment like mine to share their experiences with choice of interconnects and speaker cables. Then I did my own thinking and finally narrowed down to one or two choices, and finally went for one I believe is the right one for my system. Of course, all such decisions depend on spending power at those instances, and that often delays things. But I never wanted to buy something to catch up with others and cry alone for the waste of hard-earned money. As they say, you need patience and perseverance. That is why I often get disppointed while reading threads concerning advices for cables in systems where nothing will make a difference.
As one guy, a cable guru in my opinion, said, cable design, as with any kind of audio component design, involves a series of calculated and deliberate compromises, placed within the framework of a certain price point.
Lastly, I have nothing against locally or Chinese made cables. But don't tell me it does not matter what the purity of copper is, how it is manufactured, what type of insulation it has etc. At least when I seek products from good reputed companies like Audioquest, Kimber, Wireworld, VH Audio, Goertz, XLO etc, I am confident of such aspects though the manufacturing may still be in China.
Nothing more to say and good luck to all.
murali
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
I am not comfortable with a company that tells blatant lies, even if they think they are being sincere. So the marketing for a network cable would put me off the speaker cable, even if the speaker cable is superb and does everything claimed of it. Unfair, perhaps, but it is a matter of principle. Ordinary hyperbole, in marketing, is part of life and has to be lived with. Perhaps I'll avoid reading about Kimber's USB cables () but it looks like they do not sell ethernet cable. Good for them
To paraphrase Blue Jeans (again!): there is nothing wrong with cheaper Chinese cables, as long as they are sold at cheaper chinese prices.
) but it looks like they do not sell ethernet cable. Good for them To paraphrase Blue Jeans (again!): there is nothing wrong with cheaper Chinese cables, as long as they are sold at cheaper chinese prices.
1 For those who dont believe in cables : Folks Cables make no difference dont waste your money on them
2 For those who believe: we know cables make a difference but please do not try to convince the above via posts. we only get extended threads that just keep going on..just enjoy the music and try to teach those who come to you to listen
3 For those who are not sure: please go to any of setups by (2) and listen
2 For those who believe: we know cables make a difference but please do not try to convince the above via posts. we only get extended threads that just keep going on..just enjoy the music and try to teach those who come to you to listen
3 For those who are not sure: please go to any of setups by (2) and listen
Thanks for sharing your perspective and it helps. I was looking or searching for the right answers for some of the questions like which cable to choose, should one invest in costly cables, etc. You didn't disappoint me when you said this - "But I never wanted to buy something to catch up with others and cry alone for the waste of hard-earned money. As they say, you need patience and perseverance." I was looking exactly for this answer. So what I infer is that an audio/HT setup evolves as time goes by and you would end up getting the best cable for our setup one fine day (provided we have the passion to pursue).
The lesson I have learnt regarding the role of speaker cables in an audio setup. Just like in your case, if one sees an improvement with good quality speaker cable, that's the end of the story... No debate ... So for them, it is true that speaker cables do play a significant role. If some one else doesn't see any improvement even with good quality cables (for varying reasons like - how sensitive their setup is to the changes in the speaker cable quality, the way one perceives the sound, room acoustics, etc), that's the end of the story as well and no debate !!! For them, speaker cable doesn't make any difference. That's it. So I have concluded that unless I personally experience it, I will neither rule in favour of this way nor that way.
1 For those who dont believe in cables : Folks Cables make no difference dont waste your money on them
2 For those who believe: we know cables make a difference but please do not try to convince the above via posts. we only get extended threads that just keep going on..just enjoy the music and try to teach those who come to you to listen
3 For those who are not sure: please go to any of setups by (2) and listen
Hi arj,
Great coincidence !!! Even my thoughts in my previous post are similar to yours. In fact I didn't notice your post when I did my own post. Anyway, you have put it simple. elegant and neat rather than writing shabbily like what I have done
Before I quit, one practical tip. I have always relied on The Cable Company, USA for sourcing my cables. They sell practically all brands but are very honest and helpful in suggesting (based on their customer database) the right cables for your system based on your components. So far I have not doubted their credibility and never got the feeling they sell those cables yielding maximum commission for them! Then, of course, there are a few knowledgeable and mostly DIY friends in other forums through whom only I got introduced to the world of VH Audio, Furutech, Oyaide etc.
Thanks for the patience of all who read me.
murali
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
Those of us who are unsure about the stuff in the middle may be sure about the bits at each end. We all have different contributions to make.
I describe myself as cable-agnostic, or sceptic. I'm convinced of the simple and straightforward fact that cables can make a difference --- but my doubts arise when things become no longer simple and straightforward.
I am not a non-believer. Except in the sense that I will never make a religion out of this stuff
hyeah:
keith_correa
Well-Known Member
Tell me - how does one believe or disbelieve unless they have tried it? What's the basis of the belief/disbelief?
It's not as if it's "religion" where one is brought up to blindly believe just BECAUSE our parents believe and they believe because their parents believed
P.S. - I'm agnostic. About religion.
It's not as if it's "religion" where one is brought up to blindly believe just BECAUSE our parents believe and they believe because their parents believed
P.S. - I'm agnostic. About religion.
I don't know much about the technicalities of why different cables sound different. I suspect even cable manufacturers also know only some parts or some aspects, and they are not telling what they know for obvious reasons. The obvious measurable parameters are resistance, capacitance, inductance, dielectric constant of the insulator, skin effect, effectiveness of the shielding to reject interferences, etc. Then there are mechanical parameters like placement of conductors, whether they are twisted or not, whether they are stranded or solid core, the braiding geometry of the shielding, amount of damping provided, type of crystal, presence of impurities like oxygen, the purity of conductor material, type and dimensions of the dielectric insulation, type of connector used, etc. The cumulative effect of the electrical and mechanical parameters on the sound and how they shape the sound is what we don't know. Or at least what you and I don't know. And I suspect the mathematics and physics of it will be non-linear, non-trivial and complex while still not describing the full phenomena.
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
There is indeed all that.
Some of it probably matters too :lol:
(ok, being a bit of a troll here: it's all in fun )
Some of it probably matters too :lol:
(ok, being a bit of a troll here: it's all in fun
)ROBIN LANDANSON
Active Member
If anyone seeks to a high end speaker cable, I've a MI Terminator 4 cable for sale (brand new item)
Wharfedale Linton Heritage Speakers in Walnut finish at a Special Offer Price. BUY now before the price increase.
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