Reel to reel making a bold comeback
- Thread starter square_wave
- Start date
Great share! Funny that the good old reel to reel is making a comeback!
My uncle used to have one back in the day - no idea where it is now.
Here is a youtube which while made to showcase DSD also has a nice Studer A80 RC MkII 2 track tape machine in the same setup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m64vGFex72g
My uncle used to have one back in the day - no idea where it is now.
Here is a youtube which while made to showcase DSD also has a nice Studer A80 RC MkII 2 track tape machine in the same setup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m64vGFex72g
AVcrazy
Member
This is absurd.
I don't know why people just won't let old things phase out. Tapes are cumbersome and storage/upkeep is problematic. Although tapes are better fidelity wise but hey; 90% of us don't have the equipment to tell the difference!
Besides I don't think the music industry is gonna be too kind. They're having a hard time continuing vinyl while embracing Spotify, tidal etc.
Why don't they just keep on working for making digital better and more palatable to the audiophiles?
I don't know why people just won't let old things phase out. Tapes are cumbersome and storage/upkeep is problematic. Although tapes are better fidelity wise but hey; 90% of us don't have the equipment to tell the difference!
Besides I don't think the music industry is gonna be too kind. They're having a hard time continuing vinyl while embracing Spotify, tidal etc.
Why don't they just keep on working for making digital better and more palatable to the audiophiles?
Don't worry my friend. RTR is just a bunch of old guys hugging the trees. It will never become mainstream. In my mind, even the TT will never become mainstream on a scale like the Walkman did or the CD / DVD / Blu-ray did. These are for guys who want to say, 'I am different. I am an audiophile.'
I am waiting for the day when high-end audiophile players (such as the FiiO) will come down to sub 100$. A Sony, Pioneer, or a Panasonic should do that. I expected Oppo to do that for the Blu-ray, but they decided to follow the well beaten path of expensive players. Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic and others make 100-200$ players that are equally good.
Cheers.
square_wave
Well-Known Member
Vinyl and R2R are not mainstream..Nor will they ever be. No such industries or people who pursue such things do ever aspire to be mainstream. Where is the worry then?
I do not think interest in R2R or Hobbyists of R2R will ever become deterrents to any improvements to existing digital technology. They will co-exist.
There is no need to be mainstream or embrace mainstream for one to find meaning in anything..In fact proliferation of mainstream ghettoism is also one of the main reasons why many sub cultures like this are emerging again..
Just like high performance car tuning people who enjoy their weekend gasoline fuelled pursuits, R2R people will enjoy their handful of albums at the highest possible fidelity. Some may even enjoy the fact that they own something that is physical that was once an important part of the industry.
I personally know many people who never let go of their LP players. They own some cds, but many LPs.They call the people who are into high resolution computer playback and dacs audiophiles. Different perspective, no ?
Who are we to judge ?
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Venkat,
Do you know anything about these guys?
Spool Recorder Service Center in India
Are they well regarded in Chennai? Very nice website.
Regards.
Do you know anything about these guys?
Spool Recorder Service Center in India
Are they well regarded in Chennai? Very nice website.
Regards.
I was/am looking to acquire a R2R player. I heard a superbly restored Revox unit at a friends house in NY a few years ago and was taken aback with the sound fidelity. However availability of pre-recorded reels is something that is making me hesistate. If the comeback gains traction and prices drop, I will consider.
Jazz | The Tape Project
This site has a few jazz titles at eye watering prices ($450), not to mention too few titles to get excited about, if you know what I mean.
Cheers,
Sid
Jazz | The Tape Project
This site has a few jazz titles at eye watering prices ($450), not to mention too few titles to get excited about, if you know what I mean.
Cheers,
Sid
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AVcrazy
Member
I'm not worried. Hell I didn't get worried when Salman Khan recorded a song in his voice. I'm not worried that most of my favourite contemporary western artists are embracing hip hop to stay in business . I'm not worried that very soon recording studios will not permit us to have our own copy of the music we purchase and we'll be forced to stream it from a remote server. But I digress.
The emergence of such things is due to the very reason that we did not worry. Nobody cares for us. We have literally no say. Recent development in audio has only been limited to two extremes: the extreme low end (cheap Bluetooth speakers, streaming services, what have you) and the extreme high end (multi thousand dollar lp players, cables, etc).
The worrying part is the idea of "co-existance". Very soon there will be nothing to co exist with. Mainstream will have been (or already has been) dumbed down to dirt, while new artists or those with musical potential will find it hard to get critical acclaim in such circumstances and there would be no good "new" music anymore.
Here is where I worry: what about the old music that I love or can love? I'm still discovering my muse. What happens when studios pull the plug on high res downloads and make it streaming only? And so if you want highest fidelity: go buy the lp or the R2R copy. BTW that would be 450$ sir.
It's already happening. And in such times articles like these are disappointing. They're completely missing the point. Who gives a damn that R2R is better fidelity. You ain't got the equipment to listen to the difference. And record companies will sell the "good" music at "good" prices. This is exactly what happened with lp's. There are so many examples where the highest possible fidelity for an album from a old non-mainstream artist is now LP only. If you want digital it's either streaming or a Poorly decoded FLAC at best.
They don't care for the people who actually appreciate good music, they care for those who can appreciate it on their i-apples or on their Tascam b-20.
I don't like the hiss or pop on the lp. I don't want my music to sound different if I didn't store it properly. I want the flexibility of storage and retrieval while at the same time don't want to compromise overall fidelity and the sense of ownership. This is only possible if i have digital.
We are letting them force us to buy expensive stuff in leiu of high fidelity.
It is because of our own attitude that redundant technology like R2R and LPs are making a comeback (small or big).
Just my opinion. It could be wrong.
The emergence of such things is due to the very reason that we did not worry. Nobody cares for us. We have literally no say. Recent development in audio has only been limited to two extremes: the extreme low end (cheap Bluetooth speakers, streaming services, what have you) and the extreme high end (multi thousand dollar lp players, cables, etc).
The worrying part is the idea of "co-existance". Very soon there will be nothing to co exist with. Mainstream will have been (or already has been) dumbed down to dirt, while new artists or those with musical potential will find it hard to get critical acclaim in such circumstances and there would be no good "new" music anymore.
Here is where I worry: what about the old music that I love or can love? I'm still discovering my muse. What happens when studios pull the plug on high res downloads and make it streaming only? And so if you want highest fidelity: go buy the lp or the R2R copy. BTW that would be 450$ sir.
It's already happening. And in such times articles like these are disappointing. They're completely missing the point. Who gives a damn that R2R is better fidelity. You ain't got the equipment to listen to the difference. And record companies will sell the "good" music at "good" prices. This is exactly what happened with lp's. There are so many examples where the highest possible fidelity for an album from a old non-mainstream artist is now LP only. If you want digital it's either streaming or a Poorly decoded FLAC at best.
They don't care for the people who actually appreciate good music, they care for those who can appreciate it on their i-apples or on their Tascam b-20.
I don't like the hiss or pop on the lp. I don't want my music to sound different if I didn't store it properly. I want the flexibility of storage and retrieval while at the same time don't want to compromise overall fidelity and the sense of ownership. This is only possible if i have digital.
We are letting them force us to buy expensive stuff in leiu of high fidelity.
It is because of our own attitude that redundant technology like R2R and LPs are making a comeback (small or big).
Just my opinion. It could be wrong.
You will have to pardon us. Some of us have lost our minds with this hobby.
It's funny or sad that we enjoy this stuff (depending on how you look at it)
Most of our friends and family have given up on us - we are truly lost causes.
So having disregarded the opinions and best intentions of those so close to us it is unlikely that we will amend our ways very soon.
Can I request you to please allow us to indulge in our insanity?
I hear you Sid! I wasn't into vinyl but these R2R tapes have that something to them.
If prices come down to saner levels and something comes my way ... I might go all in.
Computer Audio would still have it's place as my general setup.
As and when I come across a brilliant recording getting a tape version might just be the ticket!
square_wave
Well-Known Member
All I can say is that none of the worrisome maladies that affect the music industry and playback gear have anything to do with niche indulgences like R2R or LP playback.
I am not sure if we have enough information to pass judgement on digital music and its future..I, at least know that all the music I am interested in is already made and available in the physical or digital medium which I can own. If the music made in the future deserves only streaming, so be it.
Power Electronics is the same as Torvin Systems. The company is owned by M.J. Thankachan, an electronics eccentric. His personal PR is pits.
Torvin has come through a lot of metamorphosis. They started as a small service center, took on agency for products such Onkyo, dumped that and went on to producing a large number of products. Like most Indian companies, they have never been able to reach the numbers to take their products into the mainstream.
I have auditioned a number of products. For one they look ugly. Two, the sound is more suited for the filmy crowd. His amplifiers pump a lot of power, and may not have the finesse that we may look for. At least his high end products are expensive. His main stay products are meant for commercial establishments where he makes his money.
He does have a reputation for repairing exotic products. You may have to wait for a ling time as he sources parts from all over the world. He certainly can repair products that do not have high IC circuits.
Personally I have seen some of these repair shops and it make me shudder at the way they treat customer products. Parts are thrown all over the place, screws are lost, and cables are misplaced. The repair tables are dirty with a number of open systems, and your system is just dumped among a number of other systems. There is no respect for the technology.
Obviously, unless your service engineers is trained by a Krell or a Macintosh and have all the circuit diagrams, you are taking a chance with your repair techniques. This is what I have seen happening in most Indian repair centers, and I shudder to take my electronics to any of them.
Cheers
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There is nothing wrong with digital format. The introduction of the CD in early 80s proved this. The problem is with the consumers who want it to be an invisible medium that occupies as little space in their favorite cloud.
So you have the digital neophiles on one cloud and the LP/tape guys on another cloud.
LP sounds better than CDs or digital music these days because the medium is tinkering unfriendly. Digital music format has been abused to death by content size compression and dynamic compression.
If you see spectra of some of the recordings, it will tell the true story. What should look like a horizontal cotton candy now looks like a horizontal corn dog, if you can picture the analogy (I love food analogies).
16 bits of resolution is more than enough for 99% of content out there. Again the CD proved this in the early 80s. 24 bit MQA or whatever is another way to sell the same old thing. Albeit at a higher cost and a promise of higher quality. Portability and accessibility have drawbacks; these are not due to the technology, but due to consumer preferences.
Having said all this, if LPs/tapes and associated high end equipment fade away, forums like HFV will become boring
Cheers,
Raghu
So you have the digital neophiles on one cloud and the LP/tape guys on another cloud.
LP sounds better than CDs or digital music these days because the medium is tinkering unfriendly. Digital music format has been abused to death by content size compression and dynamic compression.
If you see spectra of some of the recordings, it will tell the true story. What should look like a horizontal cotton candy now looks like a horizontal corn dog, if you can picture the analogy (I love food analogies).
16 bits of resolution is more than enough for 99% of content out there. Again the CD proved this in the early 80s. 24 bit MQA or whatever is another way to sell the same old thing. Albeit at a higher cost and a promise of higher quality. Portability and accessibility have drawbacks; these are not due to the technology, but due to consumer preferences.
Having said all this, if LPs/tapes and associated high end equipment fade away, forums like HFV will become boring
Cheers,
Raghu
AVcrazy
Member
@Nikhil: No one is judging you good brother. You have all the right to be happy and indulge in whatever makes you. I was just discussing the current scenario, how it affects us and my view on it. Please don't feel offended. Ours is a hobby and therefore no pursuit is a wrong pursuit here. Just my two cents on how our own good nature is being exploited by the studios and record labels.
On a lighter note, you can disregard my views as the ramblings of a poor music lover who can't afford fancy stuff
@sw: I'm just referring to the article wherein "....renewed interest in the hardware has inspired some record companies to dig into their vaults to license evergreen titles on tape. There are also several indie labels recording new material for the R2R crowd...". As I've pointed out, this is how it all began when LPs came back into business. Now we have certain albums; the most high fidelity format of which is only LP, not digital. Also please note that LP playback is not a niche indulgence anymore as more and more people are buying records these days.
I guess it comes down more to personal taste. In its current form highres-digital is not ready to replace good old analogue from the hearts of audiophiles. I would; for one love to see the day when it does.
On a lighter note, you can disregard my views as the ramblings of a poor music lover who can't afford fancy stuff
@sw: I'm just referring to the article wherein "....renewed interest in the hardware has inspired some record companies to dig into their vaults to license evergreen titles on tape. There are also several indie labels recording new material for the R2R crowd...". As I've pointed out, this is how it all began when LPs came back into business. Now we have certain albums; the most high fidelity format of which is only LP, not digital. Also please note that LP playback is not a niche indulgence anymore as more and more people are buying records these days.
I guess it comes down more to personal taste. In its current form highres-digital is not ready to replace good old analogue from the hearts of audiophiles. I would; for one love to see the day when it does.
In the underground "by invite only membership" RTR clubs, copies from studio master tapes used to be a thousand a pop. Good that it's now going to be available at 450 since the studios themselves are getting involved legitimately.
RTR has long been a niche indulgence. Case in point is some audio show exhibitors preferring RTR for source over vinyl playback, CD playback, computer playback, etc. The reason for this is simple - open reel tapes used to be the medium on which studios recorded, mastered and archived so they're are the closest to what was played in the studio that one can get. And therefore the best sounding source for legacy recordings. It's interesting that some niche studios still use the same analog recording consoles, tubed effects gears, tube mics, recorded on high ips analog tapes as used before the advent of the current crop of studio technologies. It's also heartening to know that many studios still use current production tube mics and real tube studio effects gears, and not depend solely on software VST plugins in Protocols.
RTR has long been a niche indulgence. Case in point is some audio show exhibitors preferring RTR for source over vinyl playback, CD playback, computer playback, etc. The reason for this is simple - open reel tapes used to be the medium on which studios recorded, mastered and archived so they're are the closest to what was played in the studio that one can get. And therefore the best sounding source for legacy recordings. It's interesting that some niche studios still use the same analog recording consoles, tubed effects gears, tube mics, recorded on high ips analog tapes as used before the advent of the current crop of studio technologies. It's also heartening to know that many studios still use current production tube mics and real tube studio effects gears, and not depend solely on software VST plugins in Protocols.
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You summed it up quite well Venkat ji. I too have sampled his wares including home demo of his amp that is one rung below his reference amp "Elder" and fully agree on the above.
Purchase the Audiolab 6000A Integrated Amplifier at a special offer price.
