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Remastering audio CDs into DVD-A format

Home Theatre Systems

gobble

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Hello

Since this topic is about HTPC, I am hoping someone can give me quick pointers about any software that will help me burn my collection into DVD-A format. I was looking for a dvd player that can read/navigate USB drive and play FLAC format files, but since this is not a feature of most AV receivers, I figure I could burn a DVD with a larger collection than will fit on a CD. I don't care about the enhanced sound quality that comes with the stuido recorded DVD-A/SACD channels, just want my ripped WMA/FLAC/MP4 collection to be playable.

I use linux.

cheers
 

grubyhalo

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Hi Gobble,
I think you are confusing a DVD with audio files (WAV,FLAC, etc.) burnt to it with a DVDA. These are 2 different things altogether. Also, you cannot burn a DVD-A using a normal DVD burner. Nor can you read one in an ordinary DVD player. If I am correct with my assumption, you could just go ahead and use a DVD burning software like Nero to burn the files to a DVD-R and use it on a player that supports the compression format. Hope this helps.

Thanks.
 

rikhav

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Hi Gobble,
I think you are confusing a DVD with audio files (WAV,FLAC, etc.) burnt to it with a DVDA. These are 2 different things altogether. Also, you cannot burn a DVD-A using a normal DVD burner. Nor can you read one in an ordinary DVD player. If I am correct with my assumption, you could just go ahead and use a DVD burning software like Nero to burn the files to a DVD-R and use it on a player that supports the compression format. Hope this helps.

Thanks.

Hi
what you said is very correct as far as my knowledge goes
Also I want to add that when use a DVD -R (4.7 GB) filled to the limit with mp3 audio files (320 CBR), the player cannot play it perfectly and skips a lot. I use a Pioneer DV400 for playing mp3s. So i guess there is a liimit to a number of files a player can read from a single disc or maybe its one off problem with my player.
Tried playing another disc having lesser files and it played perfectly.
Another issue is most of the DVD players dont support lossless WMA. So converting your audio cd collection into digital lossless files and playing it on your DVD player is not possible
 

hdgopala

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Why?

Why do you want to 'remaster' your audio CDs?

Assuming that DVD-Audio is a superior audio format (a claim that has often been contested), you will still end up with DVD-Audio discs that are, at best as good as the original CD, and at worst, of degraded audio quality.

What you end up losing in the process is compatibility with just about any optical media player, with absolutely no gains of any sort.

So, is it worth the effort?
 

grubyhalo

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Hi
what you said is very correct as far as my knowledge goes
Also I want to add that when use a DVD -R (4.7 GB) filled to the limit with mp3 audio files (320 CBR), the player cannot play it perfectly and skips a lot. I use a Pioneer DV400 for playing mp3s. So i guess there is a liimit to a number of files a player can read from a single disc or maybe its one off problem with my player.
Tried playing another disc having lesser files and it played perfectly.
Another issue is most of the DVD players dont support lossless WMA. So converting your audio cd collection into digital lossless files and playing it on your DVD player is not possible

How about trying a lower bitrate like 256 and see if that would work? Also, does your player read WAV files?

P.S: I have the DV-686A-S, I'll try writing a DVD with WAV files, when I get a chance and see if my player is able to read them...

Why do you want to 'remaster' your audio CDs?

Assuming that DVD-Audio is a superior audio format (a claim that has often been contested), you will still end up with DVD-Audio discs that are, at best as good as the original CD, and at worst, of degraded audio quality.

What you end up losing in the process is compatibility with just about any optical media player, with absolutely no gains of any sort.

So, is it worth the effort?

I think what he meant to say was to write compressed audio files to a DVD, not re-mastering the tracks to a DVD-A. As for as gains from the DVD-A goes, I have 3 DVD-A discs and they blow regular CD's out of the water as far as sound quality is concerned. Given that I mostly use a good headphone to listen to these, on a sterling sound system, I bet you would notice the difference in sound quality. Ofcourse, YMMV...
 
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rikhav

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Hi Grubyhalo
Tried "WAV" files as well, but that is also not played it being lossless

DVD-A would certainly be better then regular audio cds, but if you make DVD-a from an audio cd it would at max sound the same as and audio cd
 

grubyhalo

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Hi Grubyhalo
Tried "WAV" files as well, but that is also not played it being lossless

Thanks for saving me a DVD blank! :D Any luck no the lower bitrate though? It does appear that you may have to go the way of a HTPC with an optical out to the AVR...
 

rikhav

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Thanks for saving me a DVD blank! :D Any luck no the lower bitrate though? It does appear that you may have to go the way of a HTPC with an optical out to the AVR...

Tried burning some 320 CBR mp3s to a DVD-RW
And it worked fine. So the problem as i said earlier seems to be with the number of files on a single disc
 

hdgopala

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I think what he meant to say was to write compressed audio files to a DVD, not re-mastering the tracks to a DVD-A.

Okay. I get it now. Sorry about the mix-up, but the title of the post was a wee bit misleading.

As for as gains from the DVD-A goes, I have 3 DVD-A discs and they blow regular CD's out of the water as far as sound quality is concerned. Given that I mostly use a good headphone to listen to these, on a sterling sound system, I bet you would notice the difference in sound quality. Ofcourse, YMMV...

There are conspiracy theories abound that the recording studios deliberately screwed around with the audio quality of CD titles that were also released on DVD-Audio/SACD. However, I tend to believe them. Pink Floyd's 25th anniversary release of "Dark Side Of The Moon" is case in point. The SACD layer on the same disc is devoid of compression that the Redbook Audio part of the disc is laced with. The result? The SACD version sounded "better", "warmer", and so on.

The problem was that the music industry gave us a perfect product in the form of the audio CD. The format is perfect for audio reproduction of the best quality. However, once people started ripping music off them and dispersing them on the Internet, the studios wanted a new format with a lot more restriction in terms of ability to copy the music.

How do you promote a product that is trying to replace one that is perfect in every sense? Make tall claims of it being "better" and ruin the extant product's reputation to the maximum extent possible. The point is, nobody has ever taken original music from the source and compare the two formats. Nobody knows the difference. The studios won't let you do that.

Hence, I don't contest your claims that you find DVD-Audio sounding better than their audio CD counterparts. However, I don't believe that the DVD-Audio/SACD format is superior to the plain vanilla Redbook Audio CD.

Okay, I have spoken my mind out. I expect to be flamed/banned from these forums now. So, thanks for all the help in advance. Should I be banned from here, I won't return to pester you. You have my word!
 

rikhav

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Why would someome ban you just because you wrote what yout felt?
Nothing like that will happen
 

grubyhalo

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There are conspiracy theories abound that the recording studios deliberately screwed around with the audio quality of CD titles that were also released on DVD-Audio/SACD. However, I tend to believe them. Pink Floyd's 25th anniversary release of "Dark Side Of The Moon" is case in point. The SACD layer on the same disc is devoid of compression that the Redbook Audio part of the disc is laced with. The result? The SACD version sounded "better", "warmer", and so on.

Hence, I don't contest your claims that you find DVD-Audio sounding better than their audio CD counterparts. However, I don't believe that the DVD-Audio/SACD format is superior to the plain vanilla Redbook Audio CD.

Okay, I have spoken my mind out. I expect to be flamed/banned from these forums now. So, thanks for all the help in advance. Should I be banned from here, I won't return to pester you. You have my word!

For the record, I am not aware of the conspiracy theory that you mention. FWIW, my comparision on the SQ was with reference to DVD-A's of the 2 albums Workingman's Dead and American Beauty by Grateful dead. I have the redbook CD's of both the albums as well, both 2003 remasters of the 1970 version. As far as DSOTM goes, I have the SACD version as well as the redbook version (1990 release, I think) and I still prefer the SACD version. I was not expecting the SQ change to be as much as it was (more on the DVD-A than the SACD) as I did not have what some would conside a high-end rig. As far as compression artefacts degrading the SQ on CD, goes, this is true of most popular recorded music from most labels, released right from the 90's. Try checking out the SQ of releases from Telarc, Deutsche Grammophon, Chesky etc. Their new releases have fantastic SQ on their CD's and still better quality on their (mostly) SACD offerings.

Regarding your note on being flamed, it sure would not be from me. I am not contesting your claim in anyway and it is possible for you to hear differently. It's just that I have a slightly different take on it. :) Also, I am new here to the forum and am not aware of how things work or what's the rule on being banned would be. I think any forum that bans members for differing POV's or spirited arguments is not worth being a member of.;) I'm almost sure this forum is not one of those. I don't think I'd have an issue exchanging ideas and thoughts with you, even if you're banned. :cool:
 

moserw

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The conspiracy theory is news to me too. Coming to SQ, I have found SACD and DVD-Audio to be indeed better than an Audio CD. A DVD by virtue of being able to store more data does give better quality than a CD, a good case in point would be the PQ difference between a VCD (are they still around) and a DVD. I have found this to be true in SQ too when comparing an Audio CD to a DVD-Audio.
 

spirovious

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My views-

There are many software which cliams they convert into DVD aud format.
(i.e.Apollo DVD adio converter)

But in reality they only convert CD/MP3 into DVD video format.
You are asked to select one picture/screensaver which is displayed continuously on TV when you play that converted DVD.

Once you do that if you want to listen the same into 5.1DD,then simply
use Nero 7 & select DVD video + 5.1 DD codec-convert.

I m not sure abt SQ in twice conversion.Try this.
 

gobble

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Hi Gobble,
I think you are confusing a DVD with audio files (WAV,FLAC, etc.) burnt to it with a DVDA. These are 2 different things altogether. Also, you cannot burn a DVD-A using a normal DVD burner. Nor can you read one in an ordinary DVD player.

I meant I want to transcode my WAV/FLAC files on HDD to a DVD-A format and burn it in my standard DVD writer. I think its possible. Will check the linux tools in detail and update you.

Cheers
 

soundsgreat

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Hi,

Well Am a late joiner to this thread ! but its coz of some PC issues thats on going since some time ! so couldn't help it !

Now I'll not get into the conspiracy theory and other things thats been discussed here !

I just want to talk bout DVD-Audio !

Originally Posted by grubyhalo View Post
Hi Gobble,
I think you are confusing a DVD with audio files (WAV,FLAC, etc.) burnt to it with a DVDA. These are 2 different things altogether. Also, you cannot burn a DVD-A using a normal DVD burner. Nor can you read one in an ordinary DVD player.
Gruby I think you've also mistaken !

You can Master a normal wav file and burn it into a normal DVD in the said format using the normal DVD writer that you,me or anyone has !!

All you need is,first upsample or upconvert the regular 44.1Khz wav into either 96Khz (for multichannel) or 192Khz (for stereo) ! for this there are various softwares ! the one I use is Sony Vegas !

Now once you have this upsampled file,you have some softwares which are proffessional DVD-A Authoring ones and some not so pro but still will do the job !

In the Pro the Softwares are Minnetonka's DVD Audio Chrome,Bronze,DVD-Audio Pro (forgot the company name:p ) ! in the consumer or Prosumer its the Sonic DVD-Audio maker !

So use these to Burn a perfect DVD-Audio disc !! but mind you these disc's are only playable on the DVD-Audio capable player and not on any DVD player !!

I have Done couple disc's and was very happy with the results !

Hope this helps !!

Regards.
 

gobble

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Okay. I get it now. Sorry about the mix-up, but the title of the post was a wee bit misleading.

I am open to both options. I just want a large collection on a single disc. Since I cannot burn a DVD in Audio-CD format, I could just get my dvd player to navigate my DVD-R folders and play the music. However I am doubtful if a commercial DVD player will read FLAC. Hence I was thinking of re-mastering into DVD-A at 24bit/192khz stereo (not 5.1). I intend to experiment with 48khz or 96khz sampling also as I am afraid, bit level rounding, truncation errors will introduce artifacts. Like they say one cannot add data not already in the original recording. However I will be happy to experiment. I think the linux s/w will enable me to burn the DVD-A on conventional DVD writer but reading it will require a universal player. For burning a DVD-A format only requires creating the appropriate folder structure in the ISO image and copying the transcoded files. Other option is to burn the files under the VIDEO_TS folder like in a DVD-Video not AUDIO_TS like with DVD-A.

Cheers
 
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soundsgreat

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Hi,

Hi Gobble I guess you posted at the same time as mine so didn't read what I wrote !!

Anyways what you say:

Like they say one cannot add data not already in the original recording. However I will be happy to experiment.

Is somewhat true and somewhat not ! reason is when upsample (or atleast thats what I call it) you are not adding any additional bits of information to it !! Meaning offcourse you are but what I really mean is,you'll put the 44.1Khz track in 96/192Khz where in you are expanding the frequency range of the signal from the original ! so what that does is,it'll smoothen the whole response of the track instead of adding any additional bits to it ! now how one perceives this smoothing phenomena is left to one own listening skills and his general taste in music ! coz we all know for sure that,what is sweet sound to you may not necessarily sweet to me Vice-Verse ! But in general when you have this kind of bandwidth to play around (192Khz instead of 44.1khz) and also the frequency range of 10-100Khz as opposed to 20-20Khz you have sound (even converted from the original 44.1khz) thats more natural and robust and pleasant to hear !

Now coming to the other point that you made :

For burning a DVD-A format only requires creating the appropriate folder structure in the ISO image. Other option is to burn the files under the VIDEO_TS folder like in a DVD-Video not AUDIO_TS like with DVD-A.


While I agree that you need a appropriate software to handle the ISO type and stuff (which I've already said in my earlier post) ! its not that easy as you say to dump the files into the Video_TS folder and expect it to be read by the player (if thats what you mean,Else no worries) !!

For this there is a very very good software called Audio DVD maker ! which converts your normal CD (you can import the track from the CD directly ) to a max of 96Khz and makes a Disc thats a normal DVD-Video Compitable !! it does this while adding a video (like menu for the disc and track info etc) with minimal space and allocating the max to the Audio !!

In this as you say the files are under the Video_TS folder not like the Audio_TS as a Standard DVD-A Disc !! so its easily read by all player that can handle 96Khz (which in today's date is not that a major concern as all or majority will be able to handle !).

Regards.
 

gobble

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For this there is a very very good software called Audio DVD maker ! .

I have a linux only desktop so will stick to the linux tools. Will post the results of my experiments in a few weeks. I appreciate your response and clarifying my doubts.

Regards
 
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