oldmonk
Well-Known Member
good luck !
hope to see your review on this forum or any other ( preferably international ) in the near future !
Schiit Magnius announced!
- Thread starter ktks1
- Start date
good luck !
hope to see your review on this forum or any other ( preferably international ) in the near future !
I guess this refers to me. I do own Schiit and Lyrita products.
And have detailed both on this forum.
So what's the point of discussion here?
Cheers,
Raghu
oldmonk
Well-Known Member
the wondrous raptures and O's that are expressed about a product that nobody has seen or heard - thats the point.
cheers !
oldmonk
Well-Known Member
wonderful sir..! congratulations !
would be happy to read their reviews and photos etc... by yourselves - please point me to the page
Am a new member - will be grateful for your pointers
I do hear you but consider the following points.
(1) AP and Lyrita started as and, most continue to be, hobbies that have extended themselves into small commercial ventures.
(2) None of the companies in India, excepting known names such as Sonodyne, have moved into large scale production. And Sonodyne makes more money exporting and being OEM for others than promoting their brand.
(3) 'There is not enough market for audio products in India'. This is the often-repeated statement I hear when I speak to these niche 'manufacturers'.
(4) A DAC or an amplifier of the types that Schiit and others make needs investment on a large scale before they can be marketed. They need to be tested, prototypes reviewed by external 'experts', and correction and fine-tuning done before the design is closed. After that, you create a 'mould' for mass manufacture. The larger the number you manufacture, the lower the end cost. Just compare two items - a DAC Schiit is about 15000 or less. An AP's DAC is about 25,000 or more. Yes, an imported product has customs and other issues. But, if you take the local market like the US, then these products are backed by good marketing and good after-sales support. If you don't like a product, you can just return it for a full refund.
(6) Would AP ever take back a product I pay for and don't like? Would they send me their amplifier to my home for testing with my gear? I did call them and they said no. Do you see what I am getting at? Forget about AP. They are in a different city. A local dealer or a manufacturer would never dream of sending their equipment to my home to my testing before purchase. You can test drive a new car but not an amplifier.
(7) The niche players in India usually end up going after the higher-priced versions as that is all they can cater to. A small number of niche users they can personally handle and support. Speaker for 1.5 lakhs, amps for 25K to 100K, etc. At these prices, I can get imported products that have been designed well, tested, proven, and reviewed by experts on gears that I cannot afford.
(6) I was speaking to a friend of mine and some investment bankers to see if I could set up a unit to mass manufacture IC-based amplifiers and DACs in India. The answer was complete silence. Unless I can take on the Chinese competition, set up sales and marketing outlets in the US and Europe, they all felt I was wasting my time. 'Just India as a market? Forget it' was the response.
That is the reason we get excited when an established player such as Schiit comes out with a new product. We do know that companies such as Schiit have a reputation to maintain, and they work hard to do that. The belief is that they will not release a product that does not meet the standards they have set for themselves.
Most Indian manufacturers and dealers are extremely client un-friendly. And that is something we have to live with. I used to visit many of these manufacturers and dealers before. I have now given up after getting cold response. I am even put off from doing just window shopping in these places.
oldmonk
Well-Known Member
Thank you sir - for hearing me !
My points were not about mass scale manufacturing at all so all that about bankers / investment etc... can be kept aside for the moment - maybe in another thread.
It was rather simple - about traction - for a product that isnt seen or heard by anyone here - and why get into mass scale manufacturing issues in this thread - i do not understand.
I understand your review thread about Class D - you have seen it and heard it and you are entitled to your review but if you start going gaga over a product launch based on some reviews abroad then i am entitled to question that... right ?
Cheers !
PS :
In my experience..
I understand AP does offer 1 week trial at your home - they take the money from you and return it to you after the product is returned and thats fair i think
My points were not about mass scale manufacturing at all so all that about bankers / investment etc... can be kept aside for the moment - maybe in another thread.
It was rather simple - about traction - for a product that isnt seen or heard by anyone here - and why get into mass scale manufacturing issues in this thread - i do not understand.
I understand your review thread about Class D - you have seen it and heard it and you are entitled to your review but if you start going gaga over a product launch based on some reviews abroad then i am entitled to question that... right ?
Cheers !
PS :
In my experience..
I understand AP does offer 1 week trial at your home - they take the money from you and return it to you after the product is returned and thats fair i think
Why not? I have used and experienced their previous gen products personally for years
Have heard a few of their components at my home and at other FM's setups
You have every right to question the method or the madness, no one is stopping you
Just go easy on the sarcasm and prejudice that we don't understand adjectives or measurements or subjective opinion
Use the forum "Search" facility
Plug in a few keywords and my forum handle and see what pops
As for where you are coming from, I did do some searching ....
Other than "on the couch!" we have no idea
Get on to the Introductions sub forum, write a few words about yourself, why, what, yada, yada ...
What you own and have experienced in the audio gear world, etc
May be include your general philosophy on Life, Universe and Everything (- Doug Adams)
Then we may be able to understand where you are coming from
Cheers,
Raghu
oldmonk
Well-Known Member
how can subjective opinion be understood by everyone in the same manner ?
doesnt guarantee the goodness of this one does it ? - this thread referred to the new product and not to the ones you have experienced.
if its going to be "yada yada" for you or for the readers then i would rather not.
if you want to know more about me ( for whatever reason ) - you may ask politely.
I might answer.
If you can't see the point - i cant help.
have a nice day !
Politeness is a two-way street. Just look at your recent posts; there may be a clue there.
Have fun on the forum. Done indulging and entertaining you.
Cheers,
Raghu
I had a conversation with them not too long ago, and looks like it is not gonna come back to stock anytime soonStrange, the Schiit website still lists HPZ as the official Indian distributors for their products.
It’s a pity that their products have become scarce in India (hope it’s not for too long).Places | Schiit Audio
www.schiit.com
They're pushing the Earmen and Topping DACs instead.
@oldmonk : This..there are few reviews out including one on audio science:
Schiit Magnius Balanced Headphone Amp Review
This is a review and detailed measurements of the new Schiit Magnius Balanced (input and output) headphone amplifier. It was kindly sent to me by the company and costs US $199 direct plus shipping. The sample I received is in black which gives a serious look to the new amp: There is an input...
When we don't have an option for subjective evaluation, objective is the best way to go IMO.
But then, to each their own
At the outset, I would request everyone to cool down. This is not a topic worth losing your shirt over.
Traction is a 2-way street. The more active you are, the more visibility you get. Just take the case of AP. Suppose the owner gets into the idea that one of his products is good enough for distribution throught India. He sets up scale, makes a few thousand pieces, sets up distributors and dealers across the country, actively encourages demonstrations and reviews. Don't you think he will be more visible and elicit the same excitement from all of us when he introduces a new product?
Unless you go into some scale, you cannot expect the kind of response and excitement that is needed and something you are expecting.
Of course you are. We are just trying to make you understand the difference. Forget about audio products. Does ANY product elicit the kind of response in India that you are expecting? Maybe other than smartphones? Have you seen any small scale manufacturer get that kind of response? Why? Because he is not visible. As simple as that. And, he does not do anything to alter that.
If they do that, well and good. But that fortifies what I said before. It is not that just Bangalore has audiophiles. Anybody who loves music can be made to listen to good equipment and invest on that. Do I have the guts to make 20 pieces that can be used across the country for home auditioning?
Traction is a 2-way street. The more active you are, the more visibility you get. Just take the case of AP. Suppose the owner gets into the idea that one of his products is good enough for distribution throught India. He sets up scale, makes a few thousand pieces, sets up distributors and dealers across the country, actively encourages demonstrations and reviews. Don't you think he will be more visible and elicit the same excitement from all of us when he introduces a new product?
Unless you go into some scale, you cannot expect the kind of response and excitement that is needed and something you are expecting.
Of course you are. We are just trying to make you understand the difference. Forget about audio products. Does ANY product elicit the kind of response in India that you are expecting? Maybe other than smartphones? Have you seen any small scale manufacturer get that kind of response? Why? Because he is not visible. As simple as that. And, he does not do anything to alter that.
If they do that, well and good. But that fortifies what I said before. It is not that just Bangalore has audiophiles. Anybody who loves music can be made to listen to good equipment and invest on that. Do I have the guts to make 20 pieces that can be used across the country for home auditioning?
oldmonk
Well-Known Member
Thank you
we agree here
ah well - you break your own standards... i might be new on this forum but doesnt mean cant ask questions - maybe sometimes uncomfortable - but i never asked for any "indulgence" nor do i need.
good day !
Whilst i do write short opinions, i dont do detailed reviews (would leave it to people who are much more experienced and can provide more objective feedback). Its to the brand to reach out to more consumers and ask them to share opinions/feedback across if they find the product good as much as its on the user. As pointed out above the Indian brands need to do as much more to reach out to customers, keep them engaged with in different manner(home audition programmes , press releases so forth), offer equally good/better warranty policies.
While there are some Indian brands who do well on some of these aspects, it becomes difficult for a person who is really careful about what he is spending on to go with a product which doesnt have much user reviews/online presence.
If you have read this properly you would have understood the enormous amount of research and hard work I did shortlisting the product. Even then, at the end, I took a leap of faith and procured it. It could simply have failed and left me licking my wounds.
oldmonk
Well-Known Member
for the purpose of this discussion - no i disagree here - respectfully
what has manufacturing scale got to do with traction in a country 10000 km away ?
It could be the cult of Schiit but that doesnt speak for that particular product for people to judge that for USD 400 - they will be getting a VFM product ?
Point is - there is more money in representing a foreign brand - and selling products to Indian customers at inflated products citing citing customs duty etc... when the reality is that GST credit is returned back to the importer.
but that takes the discussion to distribution etc...and maybe not go there on this thread..
for smartphones - there is an opportunity to touch and feel and try the product here in India so that point is invalid wrt my point of discussion - IMO..
anyways i thank you for your reply but i hope my question is understood to be logical.
oldmonk
Well-Known Member
which is why your this Class D review is an eye opener for the reader as this is personal experience.
oldmonk
Well-Known Member
mostly what you say is right sir..
the decision is to be made by the ear - question is by whose ear ?
is the thing i am trying to raise in this thread...
oldmonk
Well-Known Member
no worries sir - i have let go.. and trust raghu will too..
Life's too short anyways..
cheers raghu !
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