SoundStage and Imaging

[mohamednaseer]

Hello Friends,

Explain one good recorded song you have heard and
1. what is the soundstage you are getting (Like width and height)
2. what is the image layering (Like no of layers and instruments in the every layer may be the placement and space between the instrument).

Because we always analyse about the system, if we know the song very well we can get best out of our system.I think this information will use to setup our system better.always many members speaking about soundstage and imaging.If we know that in a particular song we also enjoy that.

 

[srinisundar]

Yep, it is an good one Mohd.Naseer.

I believe the sound stage will differ according to the system used and for everybody their system is great. Also sound stage will differ from room size too and we cannot tell the width and height. May be we have to try an Live concerts video to experience the same.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I suspect that everything affects this! From the drivers, first is the cabinet design, then the speaker room placing, then the room itself, other items in the room, our seating position, and even moving our head.

This amazing thing called stereo ... is an illusion! Everything that affects how the sounds from two points reach our ears is going to affect how our brains build that illusion.

 

[koushik]

This is qualitative thing. More about perception and imagination, can't be quantitative about the sound stage and imaging.

 

[mohamednaseer]

we can explain imaging in the son like,

Voice is in exact center there is a drums playing exact back of voice and some space between voice(Layer 1) and drum and one person playing violin (Layer1) exact right to the singer and back to the violin one person playing saxophone(layer 2) the drum(layer 3) was behind saxophone .

if we get similar kind of information for particular song .other member also try to set their speakers to achieve this.

One time i heard that one forum member told me that when i got a new speaker i heard more instruments in songs from pazasiraja which was not even coming in my old speaker.you can point out this kind of information in the song.

Here my intention is we are doing more research in cd player,dac,cable,......But if somebody ask i have changed cable tell me the what is the difference you have got from old one .how can i say without knowing the what is exact in that song (not for golden ears members).so we need to Learn very well about the song then only we can compare anything.

Many time members saying that i have made many changes but nothing happen on the song i feel the reason is he needs to know what is available in song what was missing our existing setup and what is going to correct with the use of change.if they know this then only they can understand the impact of the change.So my view is we are keep on updating knowledge about the system at same time we need to update knowledge about song.

 

[santhosh]

How about we watch an original video of a track being performed and see if we are able to plot the positions of artist, musicians playing various instruments etc in our stereo system?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mohamednaseer]

yes santhosh.That is what i am doing now.this will give idea about the soundstage and imaging.we can learn from that.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

How about we watch an original video of a track being performed and see if we are able to plot the positions of artist, musicians playing various instruments etc in our stereo system?

Visual clues will feedback and influence your perception. I'm sure that this is how, in many of the carnatic concerts I attend, my brain places the sound with the individual musicians, because the PA systems are not that good or well operated.

The ultimate test of this, and, I think, many other aspects of hifi sound, is a classical western orchestra. The positioning of the instruments is more or less standard, and there are heaps of them. If I did not have a vague idea about how such an orchestra looks, I wonder if I would find it harder to place the instruments? If the oboe is moved, would I hear it where it is, or where I expect it to be?

 

[mohamednaseer]

hi friedns,

If we start about what is soundstage and imaging we can get n number of response because all information available in net.But i expect practical experience i was not getting no response for this .

 

[cmsajith]

How about we watch an original video of a track being performed and see if we are able to plot the positions of artist, musicians playing various instruments etc in our stereo system?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Probably it will be a surprise and we may have to manually position them "correctly" in the video based on the audio system...

 

[adie]

Sound stage, as already stated in posts above, is perception...
In my case this is evident in night ( no other disturbing noices - my wife included ) and at low volume levels ( i believe that at higher volumes sound reflections are more capable of overlapping or their effect is more audible ).
Following is my experience -
Heard some songs by Kailash Kher, Jagjeet , Norah Jones ( dont know why ). At one particular position, in between speakers , heard that lead singer was as if standing in front of me in the center, to my surprise no speaker is there in center, and all other musical devices were being played to his/her left or right side. After careful listening I was able to even locate the position of each instruement being played.
Surprisingly for me moving head a few inches this way or the other tends to move the singer towards same side. Thus is called sweet spot. When I moved towards the mid of speakers I felt that the singer is getting closer. When listening to song "Tere naina" by Kailash Kher, and moving towards sound stage - it seemed that I was getting closer to Kailash and was able to hear finer detail of guitar being played.
I spent 3.5 hours that night to feel that sound stage and am glad to say that it exists and is wonderful.
But there are certain questions in my mind. I did not found sound stage in many auditions during my visits to HIFI dealers (during hunting time). At higher volumes sound stage gets muffled. Does quality of speakers , amp and source have significant effect on sound stage.
To be frank I dont have any idea of sound stage layers and height.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Soundstage and Imaging with headphones

I recently took a shine to an incredibly expensive headphone amplifier called The Phonitor . It is going to remain very much an admire-from-a-distance shine, as this thing is oround US$2,000. But it got me thinking about headphone listening, and why it can never be the same as speaker listening.

I found a piece of software that replicates the crossover (left ear hearing right speaker, right ear hearing left speaker) that is very much a part of the stereo experience. Bauer stereophonic to binaural DSP. The aim is to take the headphone sound out of the middle of your head, and put it in front of you again.

I'm using it as a LADSPA plugin for Aqualung, under Linux. It is available as a plugin for Foobar, which I know many people people use.

I need to experiment more with the parameters (even though there are only two!). The effect is subtle, but cuts out a lot of the either-side-of-the-head blast headphone effect. The cost is a slightly muddied sound (maybe I just didn't get the parameters right, maybe the delays involved in actual-speaker-listening crossfeed do slightly muddy the sound.

 

[marsilians]

Hello Friends,

Explain one good recorded song you have heard and
1. what is the soundstage you are getting (Like width and height)
2. what is the image layering (Like no of layers and instruments in the every layer may be the placement and space between the instrument).

Any good quality orchestral recordings are best examples to test soundstage. Modern symphonies are are very popular.

For imaging, any good jazz recordings, psychedelic, fusion or specific bands like porcupine tree are very good samples.

 

[hydra]

Patricia Barber's music, particularly albums like Companion, Night Club and Modern Cool are recorded very well, and they throw a nice 3-dimensional stage.

 

[sbg]

SoundStage and Imaging and everything Earthly!
try
Thriller ( title song ) - don't have to explain
No Ordinary Love ( sade ) the snare ( drum hit) should sound behind the vocal, No Ordinary Love ( Richard Marx ) the snare ( drum hit) should be sounding forward/bright.
Cat People( OST - Giorgio moroder ) - vocals are almost center ( a lot of Echo based projection of sound in an Environment ) - may make you feel nighttime.
...
...

The hits of Banglalore Hifi meet (Aug'10 )
The Traveller ( Allan Taylor ) - look out for the strings
Morph the Cat ( Donald Fagen) - look out for the Drums.
They Can't Take That Way From Me - look out for the Trumpet,
...

 

[Shivam]

Cowboy Junkies : The Trinity Sessions

The recordings were made in Ontario's church of the holy Trinity. The recording captured the ambience very well.

As soon as the music starts, first and a few things that come to the mind are -

How big the space is (the church actually is quite big and with very good reverb).

Airconditioning humming in the background which extends far behind the singer (Margo Timmins voice)

Sometimes the foot-taps and creaking of the boards can be heard which actually are heard on the lowest part of the soundstage.

Each and every pluck of the guitar can be felt.

The instruments sound behind the singer and arranged in a large circle with some spaces between them.

The singer sounds very close to the mike that sometimes her breath can be heard and a little to the side and not exactly in the center.
(I actually don't like the exactly centered singers like in most of the recordings. We might as well listen to mono recordings and when in phase, everything there sounds in center !!!)

On a poor system these things can make the recording sound bad. Airconditioner noise in 'Mining for Gold' can sometimes feel too distracting.
This album in my opinion is one of the stars to bring out the best or worst of a system.

 

[mohamednaseer]

some more members can try the same
"Cowboy Junkies : The Trinity Sessions" cd and can give their impressions.

 

[hifiashok]

a nice check for 'sound-stage', 'width' and 'height' would be the pink floyd 'wall' cd, where the hepter part is. how many of us r able to feel this to be on our heads/overhead?

there is another piece where the content moves across the 'sound-stage', like a pebble skimming over water (but breadth wise).

also, 'sound-stage' in 2 ch is a different experience vis-a-vis in a 5.1 or 7.1 (where sounds may seem to emnate from behind or inside ur head.

 

[adie]

Soundstage and Imaging with headphones

I recently took a shine to an incredibly expensive headphone amplifier called The Phonitor . It is going to remain very much an admire-from-a-distance shine, as this thing is oround US$2,000. But it got me thinking about headphone listening, and why it can never be the same as speaker listening.

I found a piece of software that replicates the crossover (left ear hearing right speaker, right ear hearing left speaker) that is very much a part of the stereo experience. Bauer stereophonic to binaural DSP. The aim is to take the headphone sound out of the middle of your head, and put it in front of you again.

I'm using it as a LADSPA plugin for Aqualung, under Linux. It is available as a plugin for Foobar, which I know many people people use.

I need to experiment more with the parameters (even though there are only two!). The effect is subtle, but cuts out a lot of the either-side-of-the-head blast headphone effect. The cost is a slightly muddied sound (maybe I just didn't get the parameters right, maybe the delays involved in actual-speaker-listening crossfeed do slightly muddy the sound.

My observation regarding earphones is that the whole sound experience is like that every thing is sounding within 2 ears. The singer seems to be in mid of ears ( within grey or white matter ), and thus sound stage as known is not evident. It seems that I am not part of audience and listening to performance in front of me , but seems that I am being part of performance and instrumentalists are to left or right. In contrast a stereo speaker system provides feeling of being in audience and performers on the virtual stage in front within 2 speakers.
Just an observation.

 

[adie]

a nice check for 'sound-stage', 'width' and 'height' would be the pink floyd 'wall' cd, where the hepter part is. how many of us r able to feel this to be on our heads/overhead?

there is another piece where the content moves across the 'sound-stage', like a pebble skimming over water (but breadth wise).

also, 'sound-stage' in 2 ch is a different experience vis-a-vis in a 5.1 or 7.1 (where sounds may seem to emnate from behind or inside ur head.

Thanks hifiashok will definitely check and revert back. I am using stereo system with Denon AVR being used in stereo mode. Have yet to observe sound stage on a dedecated stereo amp.