Speaker low frequency extension w/o sub-woofer

[nn_in]

Any experience that folks can share for BS or FS that can go really low upto 30 -40Hz w/o needing a sub-woofer?
Reason for asking . Always specs dont tell the story. I would be eager to know do users "feel"the low freq that some of the higher end (1 Lac upwards ....i guess ) spkrs present. I do understand that it may not equal to a pair of standalone sub-woofers but which speakers almost get there?

From what i understand from reviews some spkr Dynaudio confidence series or equivalents do this low-freq extension well .Any Wharfedale ,Totem,Revel series can do this ?

This spkr under consideration is likely to be paired mainly with PMA 1600NE but sometimes with PMA 600NE ,RN 803 or Powernode2i.

Iam now using 11.2 ,Xavian Bonbonus ver2 ,Ophidian Minimos

 

[seker]

Any experience that folks can share for BS or FS that can go really low upto 30 -40Hz w/o needing a sub-woofer?
Reason for asking . Always specs dont tell the story. I would be eager to know do users "feel"the low freq that some of the higher end (1 Lac upwards ....i guess ) spkrs present. I do understand that it may not equal to a pair of standalone sub-woofers but which speakers almost get there?

From what i understand from reviews some spkr Dynaudio confidence series or equivalents do this low-freq extension well .Any Wharfedale ,Totem,Revel series can do this ?

This spkr under consideration is likely to be paired mainly with PMA 1600NE but sometimes with PMA 600NE ,RN 803 or Powernode2i.

Iam now using 11.2 ,Xavian Bonbonus ver2 ,Ophidian Minimo

Try if you can Audition the KEF R series
Bookshelf R300

 

[nn_in]

Try if you can Audition the KEF R series
Bookshelf R300

Thanks.

 

[raghupb]

I have KEF R300. Decent bass without sub.
Not measured it though.

Recently heard Totem Rainmaker. Dang, those puppies dig deep for their size.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[RRR]

Highly doubt the Kef R300 go below 45hz.
There is only so much a single 6.5 inch bass driver can do.
You will need a speaker with a eight inch driver to reach 30hz with the required tuning.

 

[raghupb]

Highly doubt the Kef R300 go below 45hz.
There is only so much a single 6.5 inch bass driver can do.
You will need a speaker with a eight inch driver to reach 30hz.

True. 8/10 inch to dig below 35-40Hz.
But there is enough in both the above speakers I mentioned earlier to get by.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[RRR]

@raghupb...you have heard both, so would be able to tell better.

 

[balavignesh002]

to know do users "feel"the low freq that some of the higher end

Try Lintons, they go low easy.

 

[raghupb]

@raghupb...you have heard both, so would be able to tell better.

Well ....
KEF R300 is spec'd at 50Hz (3dB) and 42Hz (6dB). Believable in terms of what I hear in the room.
Digs deep enough for music and does perform decently for 6.5" driver in my listening space.
I have them pulled 40" into the room (front baffle)

Totems are spec'd at 42Hz (3dB), don't know the 6dB point.
For a 5.5" driver it sounded surprisingly low and performed really well.
It was at another FMs place, smaller rectangular room, so there was some wall reinforcement.

To OP's query, there are towers that can dig deep, but they are usually multi-bass units.
Stand-mounts, the usual ones I would say to expect anything realistic below 40Hz is unreasonable.

Try Lintons, they go low easy.

Yes, big-box units like the Lintons may well go into the sub 40Hz realm.

Cheers,
Raghu

 

[robin3989]

I see Lintons are already suggested.
Any 3way or even 2.5way designs come close to what you expect to hear in your room and eliminate the need of having a seperate subwoofer.

As you are already using Xavian standmounts, check FS from the same brand.

This slanted long baffle, provide physical alignment and they look beautiful too.

 

[nn_in]

Thank you folks for the suggestions
Iam also using Wharf 11.2 ( +/- 3db ,48Hz-20Khz ; -6db @ 40Hz)."To my ears,IMO" i found it better compared to other spkrs/BS i have owned before in the low freq extension.
I can see that 11series ,D300 has more low freq extension compared to other series except ( Lintons,Elysian)

I see Lintons are already suggested.
Any 3way or even 2.5way designs come close to what you expect to hear in your room and eliminate the need of having a seperate subwoofer.

As you are already using Xavian standmounts, check FS from the same brand.

This slanted long baffle, provide physical alignment and they look beautiful too.

I think thats a older/earlier Xavian model which is discontinued now i guess. I had got the BS ver for a very specific reason at that time . I may not consider their floorstanders this time .

I have KEF R300. Decent bass without sub.
Not measured it though.

Recently heard Totem Rainmaker. Dang, those puppies dig deep for their size.

Cheers,
Raghu

I have auditioned KIN the entry level .Also i think India pricing is significantly higher than equivalent available performance/brands.

 

[Hiten]

Can not recommend any speakers models but for deep, clean low distortion bass there is no alternative than having an extra driver/s (Like 3 way/floor standers etc.). Can not bypass the laws of physics. However except some genres very low bass is hardly required so one can get away with well made ported bookshelf. Also will recommend to look for companies that publish response of both ends at min. +/-3dB. personally I have found sealed speakers having clean tighter bass and ported speakers have effortless bass representation*. Purely subjective view.
*Room will play major role at low end.
Regards.

 

[Amarendra]

Any experience that folks can share for BS or FS that can go really low upto 30 -40Hz w/o needing a sub-woofer?
Reason for asking . Always specs dont tell the story. I would be eager to know do users "feel"the low freq that some of the higher end (1 Lac upwards ....i guess ) spkrs present. I do understand that it may not equal to a pair of standalone sub-woofers but which speakers almost get there?

From what i understand from reviews some spkr Dynaudio confidence series or equivalents do this low-freq extension well .Any Wharfedale ,Totem,Revel series can do this ?

This spkr under consideration is likely to be paired mainly with PMA 1600NE but sometimes with PMA 600NE ,RN 803 or Powernode2i.

Iam now using 11.2 ,Xavian Bonbonus ver2 ,Ophidian Minimos

Try any of the Monitor Audio series speakers. Still miss the deep bass that the floor standers and book shelves used to produce. In fact I used to run my HT without a sub in those days. Very few speakers come close to that kind of bass.

 

[nn_in]

Try any of the Monitor Audio series speakers. Still miss the deep bass that the floor standers and book shelves used to produce. In fact I used to run my HT without a sub in those days. Very few speakers come close to that kind of bass.

By chance i was looking at MA spkrs today. Silver-Gold series i need to look into i guess.

Can not recommend any speakers models but for deep, clean low distortion bass there is no alternative than having an extra driver/s (Like 3 way/floor standers etc.). Can not bypass the laws of physics. However except some genres very low bass is hardly required so one can get away with well made ported bookshelf. Also will recommend to look for companies that publish response of both ends at min. +/-3dB. personally I have found sealed speakers having clean tighter bass and ported speakers have effortless bass representation*. Purely subjective view.
*Room will play major role at low end.
Regards.

Guess i may need to consider FS/front,bottom ported if possible.Suggestions welcome.
At this time Lintons ,D300,11 Series are the closest to what's possible and with reasonable perf/price ratio. I do seem to prefer the Wharf presentation.
Dali 5,7 options.If iam unable to spot value buy or gems in midrange of brands ....then i may need to wait ,budget up and look into greater than 2lac range ie Dynaudio confidence,contour,special 40 range or equivalent.

 

[jls001]

Any experience that folks can share for BS or FS that can go really low upto 30 -40Hz w/o needing a sub-woofer?
Reason for asking . Always specs dont tell the story. I would be eager to know do users "feel"the low freq that some of the higher end (1 Lac upwards ....i guess ) spkrs present. I do understand that it may not equal to a pair of standalone sub-woofers but which speakers almost get there?

From what i understand from reviews some spkr Dynaudio confidence series or equivalents do this low-freq extension well .Any Wharfedale ,Totem,Revel series can do this ?

This spkr under consideration is likely to be paired mainly with PMA 1600NE but sometimes with PMA 600NE ,RN 803 or Powernode2i.

Iam now using 11.2 ,Xavian Bonbonus ver2 ,Ophidian Minimos

It's nice to have speakers that can go down really deep but ~30 Hz invariably invokes unwanted room modes, resulting in uncontrolled boomy bass. The situation gets worse if the bass cannot be separately controlled. Though integrating subwoofers in a stereo setup can be challenging, in a way it's easier because the volume of bass can be controlled from the subwoofer.

 

[nn_in]

Thats a aspect that's important.
Thanks for bringing that up.Is 40Hz a fair LF to consider?

 

[RRR]

It depends on the music you listen to.
Generally 35 to 40 is what good well tuned speakers will be able to deliver.

Try any of the Monitor Audio series speakers. Still miss the deep bass that the floor standers and book shelves used to produce. In fact I used to run my HT without a sub in those days. Very few speakers come close to that kind of bass.

Which model of Monitor Audio speakers are you referring to?
Generally most MA speakers are famous for excellent midrange and not bass.

 

[Prodigy]

Any experience that folks can share for BS or FS that can go really low upto 30 -40Hz w/o needing a sub-woofer?
Reason for asking . Always specs dont tell the story. I would be eager to know do users "feel"the low freq that some of the higher end (1 Lac upwards ....i guess ) spkrs present. I do understand that it may not equal to a pair of standalone sub-woofers but which speakers almost get there?

From what i understand from reviews some spkr Dynaudio confidence series or equivalents do this low-freq extension well .Any Wharfedale ,Totem,Revel series can do this ?

This spkr under consideration is likely to be paired mainly with PMA 1600NE but sometimes with PMA 600NE ,RN 803 or Powernode2i.

Iam now using 11.2 ,Xavian Bonbonus ver2 ,Ophidian Minimos

I always feel when it comes to low frequency the room dimensions matters a lot. For e.g a good bookshelf kept In a small room of 10X13 room can give you a ground breaking bass without needing a sub but then when you shift it to a room that’s double the size it can’t produce 1/2 the bass. The L X W X H of the room matters more than the speakers.
Same goes with the Floor Standers too is what I have noticed.
I have experienced this in my own my living room. My ground floor living room is 26 X 38 and 12ft roof. So if I am expecting a pair of Floor Standers or a Bookshelf to give me that ground thumping bass it’s highly impossible. But then when I set up the same in my 1st floor living room thats 15 X 23 it’s different. So according to me if you have a very big listening space adding a sub makes more sense to get that low end than trying to explore FS or Bigger BS.

 

[RRR]

I always feel when it comes to low frequency the room dimensions matters a lot.

Thats right.

To produce greater bass in a larger space, the bass driver needs to move more air. It can move only a limited amount of air in a big room and hence if the room is small the bass will be adequate. Even the best bookshelf speaker will fall short in the bass in a very large room if it is less than 8 inch driver.

To produce greater bass in a larger space, the bass driver needs to move a lot more air. A 6.5 inch driver cannot do that in a large space due to law of physics.

To the OP...you can consider the Klipsch. However the sound tends to get bright at a higher volume

 

[nn_in]

I always feel when it comes to low frequency the room dimensions matters a lot. For e.g a good bookshelf kept In a small room of 10X13 room can give you a ground breaking bass without needing a sub but then when you shift it to a room that’s double the size it can’t produce 1/2 the bass. The L X W X H of the room matters more than the speakers.
Same goes with the Floor Standers too is what I have noticed.
I have experienced this in my own my living room. My ground floor living room is 26 X 38 and 12ft roof. So if I am expecting a pair of Floor Standers or a Bookshelf to give me that ground thumping bass it’s highly impossible. But then when I set up the same in my 1st floor living room thats 15 X 23 it’s different. So according to me if you have a very big listening space adding a sub makes more sense to get that low end than trying to explore FS or Bigger BS.

Thanks. That was one reason given the budgets i deployed earlier with entry/mid level Xavian and Wharfs given room size.Wharfs 11.2 to my ears is offering more quality bass at lower volumes {Frequency Response (+/-3dB)48Hz ~ 20kHz ;Bass Extension (-6dB)40Hz}
Now for ambient music there is background bass below 50Hz in the 30-50Hz .My thinking is how to now get more of this....but i realize the room consideration mentioned by you and few others is more important
My room size 15ft x 11ft and 11ft ht .