Speaker Qualities - Warm / Bright / Forward Sounding / Laid Back / ......

[elangoas]

Hello Ppl,

I have been targeting online reviews on Wharfedale diamond 9.2/10.1, Monitor Audio BR2, Polk Audio Rti A3, PSB Image Alpha B and few others, came across few jargons Warm / Bright / Forward Sounding / laid Back. Though i could imagine what it would be, can someone shed light on what it actually means.

Which of these qualities should a speaker posses to sound best (or) what are the qualities that make a speaker better.

I didn't search this forum if there was a thread before on this. If you have already discussed about this, plz redirect me.

 

[sidvee]

The ones that sound best to you.

This is like looking at a shade card from a paint company - which colour is the best? Is it the same for everybody? Everybody wants a beautiful home or car or better looking nails on the wife. But the chosen colour will differ for everybody.

There is a resource somewhere that discusses the meaning of all of these words, but it's as meaningless as trying to describe salty/sweet/spicy, because what you're trying to describe in words is a feeling.

Language is not reality itself - it is only a representation of it. To experience reality, you have to experience it, not hear about it.

Very well illustrated Sir. I concur with you whole heartedly. No better way of saying in the "Ears of the Beholder". Kudos!
Cheers
Sid

 

[elangoas]

The ones that sound best to you.

This is like looking at a shade card from a paint company - which colour is the best? Is it the same for everybody? Everybody wants a beautiful home or car or better looking nails on the wife. But the chosen colour will differ for everybody.

There is a resource somewhere that discusses the meaning of all of these words, but it's as meaningless as trying to describe salty/sweet/spicy, because what you're trying to describe in words is a feeling.

Language is not reality itself - it is only a representation of it. To experience reality, you have to experience it, not hear about it.

You are right. I had auditioned Wharf 9.2 with CA Amp and it sounded beautiful. From what i learnt from the reviews is it is laid back. So just wanted to know how to distinguish laid back from bright & others........

 

[Cooldude_Ldn]

To add to cranky, some speakers with metallic tweeters (B&W) can sound brighter than the one with silk dome tweeter. But read the metallic tweeters are good for adding clarity to high freq instruments (like cymbal)
I prefer the speaker to be a neutral one..Let the amp do the coloring (warm/bright)

 

[longshanks]

Language is not reality itself - it is only a representation of it. To experience reality, you have to experience it, not hear about it.

Absolutely!

 

[alcy]

I guess its not required now, but here's a link to an article here at HFV http://www.hifivision.com/articles-guides/7452-cheat-sheet-terms-used-oddiophiles.html .

 

[suri]

came across few jargons Warm / Bright / Forward Sounding / laid Back. Though i could imagine what it would be, can someone shed light on what it actually means.

hi elangoas,

let me take a stab at this -

Warm speakers = butter when cold has a definite shape - but when warmed becomes soft and gooey - hard and cold butter might look good but soft melted butter on hot toast tastes really good! - Warm speakers sound really good with all types of sources and music and, essentially, spread out the sound so that nothing sounds bad - not even bad music and bad recording!

bright speakers = when you have spent a great night with your beau at the movies(watching Kill Bill), you are feeling fuzzy and warm, the popcorn was really the best you have ever had- and when you squeezed her hand during the movies, she did not pull it away? - well, when you are in that state of fugue - suddenly a 60,000 watt white spotlight is trained on you, sirens start blaring, police megaphone - asking you put your hands up - and then you suddenly realize that your uncle (underworld don) has messed up - THAT is a bright speaker

forward sounding = you feel that (while watching a qawwali) Rakhi Sawant has left the troupe and is running towards you - all the while gyrating and seeking your attention - and her voice (beseeching you to be amorous with her) is far louder than the accompanying musical instruments - That is a forward speaker!

laid back = you are stretched out max - nothing can disturb you - bloody hell, if you were relaxing on the beach with a captain morgan, and you saw a nuclear mushroom cloud rising from the surface of the ocean - you would light up a marlboro and ask your girlfriend if she would care to join you in your submarine - THAT is a laid-back speaker!

and they all sound good - except for the bright and fatiguing speaker

what will you like? nobody can tell you - listen to 200 speakers before you spend cash to buy!

 

[vivekam]

I think we should collect all of Suri Sir's post on one thread. At times they are very very refreshing.
At 3:30 a.m. after grilling my head, on some problems for 3 hrs, I opened this thread. After going through Suri's post my mind is again refreshed. Wow Suri you are great !

 

[shaizada]

A living breathing poet and screen writer right amongst us! Suri, when is your book coming out

 

[iaudio]

hi elangoas,

let me take a stab at this -

Warm speakers = butter when cold has a definite shape - but when warmed becomes soft and gooey - hard and cold butter might look good but soft melted butter on hot toast tastes really good! - Warm speakers sound really good with all types of sources and music and, essentially, spread out the sound so that nothing sounds bad - not even bad music and bad recording!

bright speakers = when you have spent a great night with your beau at the movies(watching Kill Bill), you are feeling fuzzy and warm, the popcorn was really the best you have ever had- and when you squeezed her hand during the movies, she did not pull it away? - well, when you are in that state of fugue - suddenly a 60,000 watt white spotlight is trained on you, sirens start blaring, police megaphone - asking you put your hands up - and then you suddenly realize that your uncle (underworld don) has messed up - THAT is a bright speaker

forward sounding = you feel that (while watching a qawwali) Rakhi Sawant has left the troupe and is running towards you - all the while gyrating and seeking your attention - and her voice (beseeching you to be amorous with her) is far louder than the accompanying musical instruments - That is a forward speaker!

laid back = you are stretched out max - nothing can disturb you - bloody hell, if you were relaxing on the beach with a captain morgan, and you saw a nuclear mushroom cloud rising from the surface of the ocean - you would light up a marlboro and ask your girlfriend if she would care to join you in your submarine - THAT is a laid-back speaker!

and they all sound good - except for the bright and fatiguing speaker

what will you like? nobody can tell you - listen to 200 speakers before you spend cash to buy!

Bravo, Suri! Thats a great way to put it, without any technical mumbo jumbo!

And as usual your post always brings a smile to the lips or rather rofl! The bright speaker analogy was just pure awesomeness!

 

[gobble]

After my recent upgrades, I found that warm sound almost equates to less accurate reproduction. Though it may flow better and sound more musical, once I heard my setup transform itself from warm to cold over the last many months, I was originally dismayed. But paradoxically I keep wanting to stay with the colder and more accurate sounding setup even though it is the original warm sound that reaches straight for my heart and carries me away with the flow. This is because many other superior qualities came with the colder sounding setup like a pitch black background, separation and more well defined upper frequency reproduction. That is not to say that a cold SQ automatically brings these benefits but it so happens that my upgrades brought this along with the colder SQ.

After a lot of deliberations I have arrived at a definition of what warm sound actually is - it appears to highlight the lower order harmonics more than the higher order whenever any note is played. I much prefer this as I found that vocals have lost the quality of mellifluousness (exactly as the dictionary word) and the overall sound has a lesser "body". The colder sound takes more than a few seconds to bring that unconscious foot tapping into me, but with the warmer sound I am swept off my feet in an instant. But what is gained with the colder SQ is a more detailed resolution and clarity about what the musician exactly played and felt about it.

I am still searching how to add the accent of low order harmonics back to my sound without losing accuracy instrument separation and detail ...

More in my review when I post it.

HTH
Cheers

PS: A Caveat : You may also find cheap gear that is cold but does not provide detail and resolution.

 

[avidyarthy]

Agree with you 100%, Gobble.

 

[elangoas]

Generally,

laid back would be the term I use to represent a speaker where the performers are located slightly behind the horizontal plane of the speakers, and maybe a slightly emphasised upper bass and lower midrange (this is also termed warmth). Speakers that conform to this would be the Polk Lsi9, the Proac Tablettes and Response, some of the low-end Dalis, and a few Quads. Generally speakers like this work better with vocal and acoustic music, and some light jazz. This is a description of tonality, so others may have different ideas about what it means. And they would be right about that, and I would not be wrong.

Bright speakers are those which emphasise the region extending from upper midrange to the very top end of the treble, or some portion in the middle, and 'forward' would probably correspond to a speaker that positions the performer slightly in front of itself. Depending on your taste and acoustic environment, different kinds of tone will hold different appeal for you.

To borrow a phrase from a regular on this forum, YMMV

Very nice piece of information. Well explained !!!

 

[elangoas]

I guess its not required now, but here's a link to an article here at HFV http://www.hifivision.com/articles-guides/7452-cheat-sheet-terms-used-oddiophiles.html .

This is a fantastic information. I am starting to learn more. Thank you all....

 

[afg]

To add to cranky, some speakers with metallic tweeters (B&W) can sound brighter than the one with silk dome tweeter. But read the metallic tweeters are good for adding clarity to high freq instruments (like cymbal)
I prefer the speaker to be a neutral one..Let the amp do the coloring (warm/bright)

I have read about the brightness of metal tweeters in so many posts. I think it is incorrect to say that metal tweeters are the causefor all brightness and soft dome is the panacea. My speakers have titanium tweeters and I find them a lot smoother and mellower (at the same time more natural and detailed) than the Dyn Audience 82 tweeters which have a silk dome. It is also the design and application that counts.

 

[afg]

@cooldude: This is not always true. A Dynaudio with a silk dome tweeter sounds far brighter than a Usher with a Beryllium tweeter, for example. Materials have nothing to do with the sound of a speaker, it is about the overall design, distortion, and ratio of reflected and direct energy and a lot of other factors.

Most definitely agree.


That said, it is my understanding that most (>90%) of people I have ever encountered prefer a slightly laid-back and warm, easy going tonality. The smoothness offered by such setups tend to be preferred partly due to the natural lack of high frequencies in the atmosphere and our deficient hearing in the area above 10KHz. These setups mask a lot of top-end detail that is only produced by man-made instruments, but our ear compensates for a lot of those differences anyway. Personally, I don't lean towards euphony except occasionally - but can totally understand when people do [/QUOTE]

I thought that live sound is warm and laid-back. This notion was thrashed when I went for a live jazz program. The ride and crash cymbals had so much shimmer that my system sounds veiled in comparison. I have also heard drums once in a live unamplified environment in a small room. The crash cymbals sounded so harsh that I had to run out the room. So I guess live sound is not naturally warm. Warmth, probably, is the artifact of the recording and the audio system.

 

[square_wave]

My two cents:
Music is nether warm or cold. It is neutral.

If you listen to live unamplified music, there is nothing cold or warm about it. If you listen to live jazz in warmly lit bar with lot of overstuffed leather chairs and well fed buxom ladies occupying them, the sound can be a bit warm. A rock jam up in a sterile garage can sound quite bright in contrast.

If your system sounds cold with all music, it is a cold system, if it sounds warm with all music, it is a warm system. Neither is accurate.

A reasonably accurate system will make warm recordings sound warm and cold recordings sound cold.