I have seen this many many many times. Thanks for sharing.
Speakers today in Art Dudley’s words
- Thread starter prem
- Start date
????? Ahuja????Hari's favourite speakers, Ahuja
Never recommend Ahuja even for my maid's husband.
Actually I have considered this horn for my CD tweeter, but due to poor WAF avoided purchase.My next set of "hi-fi" speakers. Because I've seen "Koli's" from Versova dance to muzak being played from this in their village.
P.S. For the folks not local to me/us - in Mumbai, the Koli's are the local fisherfolk and are the original inhabitants of Mumbai. They have their own villages along the coastline and there is one such large "village" in a place called Versova in Mumbai.
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Most welcome Hari ji
IME, with my speakers, when I try to achieve objective perfection in my speakers by measuring with a flat Frequency Response, good minimum phase, decent step response, etc - I don't like what I am listening.
Off-late I have kept my mic far away and have tuned my speakers subjectively and what my ear prefers, i do not dare measure them - as I know it will defy all objective sense of logic - but who cares- if I am enjoying the music.
The greatest kept secrets in audio is what you listen and what your mic measures does not correlate very easily. There are just too many variables in this where your ears does a better job of listening in unison than your mic by measuring them.
When music is played direct in front of you with no electronics, each instruments have their own size and scale. A saxophone and a flute won't sound at the same scale and level. So why not to achieve the same in your speakers too. No need to Equalize and reduce the dynamics of your setup. I can hear more pluck, snap and dynamics if I leave everything as it's meant to be and not apply too much of my or others audio experience in doing the balance. This is also a new discovery to me.
Off-late I have kept my mic far away and have tuned my speakers subjectively and what my ear prefers, i do not dare measure them - as I know it will defy all objective sense of logic - but who cares- if I am enjoying the music.
The greatest kept secrets in audio is what you listen and what your mic measures does not correlate very easily. There are just too many variables in this where your ears does a better job of listening in unison than your mic by measuring them.
When music is played direct in front of you with no electronics, each instruments have their own size and scale. A saxophone and a flute won't sound at the same scale and level. So why not to achieve the same in your speakers too. No need to Equalize and reduce the dynamics of your setup. I can hear more pluck, snap and dynamics if I leave everything as it's meant to be and not apply too much of my or others audio experience in doing the balance. This is also a new discovery to me.
Last edited:
Vineethkumar01
Well-Known Member
This thread might not be the appropriate place to jot down some thoughts about speakers for someone with an objective bent of mind since the thread title itself makes it clear that it is about the opinion of someone about speakers of today. But since we have reached a point in the discussion where we have started to veer off from the original topic and start generalizing things in the context of the age-old 'objective vs subjective' debate, I thought, why not say my piece too..
First of all, I agree that for many, music and the speakers that reproduce music are purely a pursuit of a certain sensory pleasure, the people who purely believe and involve in the subjective part of all of it. Some others like me, who, while primarily pursuing the same goals are also interested in the science that works in the background of all of that (people who believe and involve in the objective part of this pursuit). Then there are a few who just oscillate between both groups jumping from the subjective to objective and perpetually caught in an identity crisis. There is nothing wrong with any of it until we start making generalized statements claiming one camp's superiority over the other. Now that is where all the good stuff about this hobby go to die. Now its just politics and nothing good has ever come out of it in my short experience.
I have been interested in music for as long as I could remember. I have been fascinated with audio equipment as well for about the same time. Been an infrequent and hobbyist guitar player for a little while. Got a chance to study signal processing that works in the background of audio systems during my graduate studies and pursued a similar discipline (in terms of the physics involved) during my research and doctoral studies. However, I consider myself more fortunate in that I got a chance to interact with people who were deeply interested in music of all kinds wherever I was especially during my research. I have as friends people who are musicians, singers who have studied and still study Carnatic classical music for the last 30 years and people who play well certain instruments. Because they all probably had a scientific bent of mind, they all have supported me on the objective pursuit of audio reproduction because they wanted to ensure that their art doesn't get lost or the emotional connect with the audience is conveyed as intended.
Now we come to those who say they have dabbled in the objective side and found it insufficient to enhance and quantify their subjective experiences. Well, I would say I have never faced that situation. The more I learnt about the objective side, the more I could understand and enhance my listening/audio experiences. The trick is to keep learning. Unlearn, relearn and never stop. I agree that it may not be everyone's cup of tea but then, in my opinion, they should also refrain from making sweeping generalizations about the "inferiority" of the objective approach. One can be perfectly happy with the subjective experience. Another may enjoy the objective side as well. Some of us enjoy both and that is equally good.
Just because someone has measured some parameters of a speaker doesn't make one the authority on the objective aspects. Without knowing what one should know about the current state of the art in measurement techniques and its analysis applied to one's context, it is a useless pursuit. In my opinion, it is just dangerous to go and quote and 'measurements' are useless. It is just an incomplete application of science/objective aspects and it should be regarded/recognized as such. It is wrong to bias a new generation of music & audio equipment lovers with useless statements such as those. How many of us have read a few papers or listened to a lecture by David Greisinger, or Earl Geddes or umpteen number of experts who have tried to correlate the objective aspects with some subjective parameters? I have found some of them enlightening in my audio pursuit. It is an insult to their life's work when we blindly say "objective aspects and measurements are useless". We are just being frogs in the well.
For those who speak about the "inferiority" of the objective approach, I dare you. Go learn a bit more about the area and the current state of the art and then we can have a talk.
First of all, I agree that for many, music and the speakers that reproduce music are purely a pursuit of a certain sensory pleasure, the people who purely believe and involve in the subjective part of all of it. Some others like me, who, while primarily pursuing the same goals are also interested in the science that works in the background of all of that (people who believe and involve in the objective part of this pursuit). Then there are a few who just oscillate between both groups jumping from the subjective to objective and perpetually caught in an identity crisis. There is nothing wrong with any of it until we start making generalized statements claiming one camp's superiority over the other. Now that is where all the good stuff about this hobby go to die. Now its just politics and nothing good has ever come out of it in my short experience.
I have been interested in music for as long as I could remember. I have been fascinated with audio equipment as well for about the same time. Been an infrequent and hobbyist guitar player for a little while. Got a chance to study signal processing that works in the background of audio systems during my graduate studies and pursued a similar discipline (in terms of the physics involved) during my research and doctoral studies. However, I consider myself more fortunate in that I got a chance to interact with people who were deeply interested in music of all kinds wherever I was especially during my research. I have as friends people who are musicians, singers who have studied and still study Carnatic classical music for the last 30 years and people who play well certain instruments. Because they all probably had a scientific bent of mind, they all have supported me on the objective pursuit of audio reproduction because they wanted to ensure that their art doesn't get lost or the emotional connect with the audience is conveyed as intended.
Now we come to those who say they have dabbled in the objective side and found it insufficient to enhance and quantify their subjective experiences. Well, I would say I have never faced that situation. The more I learnt about the objective side, the more I could understand and enhance my listening/audio experiences. The trick is to keep learning. Unlearn, relearn and never stop. I agree that it may not be everyone's cup of tea but then, in my opinion, they should also refrain from making sweeping generalizations about the "inferiority" of the objective approach. One can be perfectly happy with the subjective experience. Another may enjoy the objective side as well. Some of us enjoy both and that is equally good.
Just because someone has measured some parameters of a speaker doesn't make one the authority on the objective aspects. Without knowing what one should know about the current state of the art in measurement techniques and its analysis applied to one's context, it is a useless pursuit. In my opinion, it is just dangerous to go and quote and 'measurements' are useless. It is just an incomplete application of science/objective aspects and it should be regarded/recognized as such. It is wrong to bias a new generation of music & audio equipment lovers with useless statements such as those. How many of us have read a few papers or listened to a lecture by David Greisinger, or Earl Geddes or umpteen number of experts who have tried to correlate the objective aspects with some subjective parameters? I have found some of them enlightening in my audio pursuit. It is an insult to their life's work when we blindly say "objective aspects and measurements are useless". We are just being frogs in the well.
For those who speak about the "inferiority" of the objective approach, I dare you. Go learn a bit more about the area and the current state of the art and then we can have a talk.
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