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Stereo Amp and speakers under 30k

Wharfedale EVO4.1 Bookshelf Speakers

kindofblue

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Folks,

My first post after being a lurker for some time... I am researching a HiFi system under a shoe string budget of Rs 30,000. I am mostly into jazz/rock - classic & progressive/ Indian classical - Hindustani and Carnatic.

I am looking to buy a decent amp plus a pair of floor standers or if not affordable, a pair of decent bookshelves.

I will be travelling to the UK next month so I am hoping I can pick up the amp there and save a bit of money whcih can in turn be diverted to the speakers.
  1. Will I be able to find floorstanders in my budget? (Someone mentioned Mission might have an entry level model real cheap.)
  2. If I do settle in for bookshelves, will I need a sub woofer? I listen to plenty of jazz with bass solos, for example. Will bookshelves be able to bring them out while running on normal sound levels? Also, even though I am not really a movie buff(movie:music = 90:10) I would like to be able to use the setup for watching movies as well.
I would be using this setup with my PC as a source. I plan to get a decent soundcard and gradually convert my collection to FLACs.

Could you guys throw some model numbers at me on basis of which I could start auditioning(both for speakers and amps)? Up until now I haven't heard anything except for Bose Acoustimass bookshelves - does anyone have any opinions on these? (curiously no one talks bose on these forums - why?)

I guess that's a lot for a first post, so please do bear with me.

thanks
 

mridulgoel

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Folks,

My first post after being a lurker for some time... I am researching a HiFi system under a shoe string budget of Rs 30,000. I am mostly into jazz/rock - classic & progressive/ Indian classical - Hindustani and Carnatic.

I am looking to buy a decent amp plus a pair of floor standers or if not affordable, a pair of decent bookshelves.

I will be travelling to the UK next month so I am hoping I can pick up the amp there and save a bit of money whcih can in turn be diverted to the speakers.
  1. Will I be able to find floorstanders in my budget? (Someone mentioned Mission might have an entry level model real cheap.)
  2. If I do settle in for bookshelves, will I need a sub woofer? I listen to plenty of jazz with bass solos, for example. Will bookshelves be able to bring them out while running on normal sound levels? Also, even though I am not really a movie buff(movie:music = 90:10) I would like to be able to use the setup for watching movies as well.
I would be using this setup with my PC as a source. I plan to get a decent soundcard and gradually convert my collection to FLACs.

Could you guys throw some model numbers at me on basis of which I could start auditioning(both for speakers and amps)? Up until now I haven't heard anything except for Bose Acoustimass bookshelves - does anyone have any opinions on these? (curiously no one talks bose on these forums - why?)

I guess that's a lot for a first post, so please do bear with me.

thanks
Dear Pal

You can get 2.1 Channel of Polk Audio - Monitor 50 + CS1, for that price...
But, Monitor 50 is too good for that budget...
1x6.5" Driver + 1" Tweeter... and if you take a ok-ok amp... it will rock...

Do let me know, i will get you good price..

Do let me know, any of your querrys and best deals on Audio/Video products...

Thanking You

Mridul Goel
 

SuhasG

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Hi,

I am little bit skeptical about building a quality 2 channel system under 30K. You can certainly have a working system under 30K but considering your music interests, I am sure, pretty soon you will find it inadequate and then start looking for upgrades. When this happens you will loose money while selling the existing system.

One alternative, which I myself followed, is the Pre-owned way. If you search, you will find there are always some quality pre-owned components are on Sale. You can find a bargain somewhere.

I built my entire system (CD player, Amp, Speakers, Interconnects, speaker cables and equipment rack) from pre-owned components.

Hope this helps.

Regards

SUhas
 

mridulgoel

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Hi,

I am little bit skeptical about building a quality 2 channel system under 30K. You can certainly have a working system under 30K but considering your music interests, I am sure, pretty soon you will find it inadequate and then start looking for upgrades. When this happens you will loose money while selling the existing system.

One alternative, which I myself followed, is the Pre-owned way. If you search, you will find there are always some quality pre-owned components are on Sale. You can find a bargain somewhere.

I built my entire system (CD player, Amp, Speakers, Interconnects, speaker cables and equipment rack) from pre-owned components.

Hope this helps.

Regards

SUhas

Hi Suhas

I cant basically comment on your point, as i really dont have any idea about pre-owned compnents, as i never had...

I prefer to wait and collect some bucks and then buy a new system, under my limits, as what i have seen to my friends and all, that the pre-owned is an fixed recurring expense, for maintenance...

And, yes i agree under 30K, you need to be very particular about sound, but when i heard that Polk Audio - Monitor 50, with an Denon-AVR 1908, where only front floor standers were being played, they sound fantastic...
Just try and have a experience at any ProFx showroom...

Yes, But, under 30K you ca only go for 1 pair Monitor-50, and one Center Speaker...
For Sub and Amp, you need to shuffle your pocket a bit...

Thanking You

Mridul Goel
 

SuhasG

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the pre-owned is an fixed recurring expense, for maintenance...


Mridul Goel
I agree with you if I am buying a pre-owned car or bike, that is more true with Diesel fueled cars and vehicles used for commercial purpose.

But for pre-owned Audio gear especially Speakers and Amps it is not that troublesome.

Even a brand new equipment might need service who knows! And it is less said the better as far as Warranty / After sales support is concerned.

After the so called Warranty is over, one is at par with any pre-owned / gray market equipment owner as far as spares and service is concerned.

Most audiophiles maintain their gears in MINT condition. In most cases ,the gear is on Sale not because of problems in the gear but the owner really want to upgrade to something else.

My own pair of Cadence ARITA bookshelf speakers is on sale on this forum. It is in MINT condition and as good as a new pair. I am selling it only because I upgraded to Electrostatic Floor standers (pre-owned of course!)

If one observes enough caution and does some research, then certainly a far better system can be had at an affordable price (30% to 60% of price of the brand new)

A good Solid state amp costing Rs 30K - 40K (NAD , CA, ROTEl, MARANTZ) can be had for 10-15K similarly a good pre-owned bookshelf speaker pair can be had for around 15K -20K or less, this way while still remaining within the budget of 30K , one can build a much better system than the brands suggested.

At present a NAD C352 amp is on Sale on this forum. A good starter amp and quite popular in India so service and support is available if at all required.

Hope this helps

SUhas
 
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kindofblue

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^Suhas

'Course it helps, thanks for the sane advice. Going second hand is what I might ultimately end up doing. Of course that would also mean figuring out how these items can be valued appropriately, etc.

Mridul, I'll come back to you in case I decide to go Polk audio. I checked up Monitor 50; could you kindly pm me your price?
 

mridulgoel

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^Suhas

'Course it helps, thanks for the sane advice. Going second hand is what I might ultimately end up doing. Of course that would also mean figuring out how these items can be valued appropriately, etc.

Mridul, I'll come back to you in case I decide to go Polk audio. I checked up Monitor 50; could you kindly pm me your price?
Dear...

You just let me know, what actually is your requirement...
Fresh pcs only (No secondhands), as till date i am not dealing with second hand stuff, maybe soon i will, if i found market of them good...

Please let me know, what actually you are looking out to purchase from India, and i will get the same to you, at a better rate...

But, this time, i will not be able to disclose any of my prices, as we are expecting new price listings soon...(for dealers only)...lol

Anyways, do let me know, about your requirements, i will assure best deals...

And even if you are not particular about Floor Standers, you can even look at Wharfedale 9.1 (MRP 13K), Q Accoustics 1010i (MRP 10,330) (Best) ...
And then you can go for Center Speaker, Q Accoustics 1000i C (MRP 10,330)...

So your total 2.1 Speaker system will be minimum Rs.20,660, and then you can get an amp from out of India for something Rs.10,000...
I think that will be your good enough 2.1 system...
you can upgrade the same later as well...

Do let me know, what you think...???

Thanking You

Mridul Goel
 

soundsgreat

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Hi,

I've been reading this thread for some time !! always wanted to comment but didn't do so for some reasons !! But now I just couldn't stop myself from commenting !! I had to do it for obvious reasons :p

First of all I will strongly agree to Suhas's view point and strongly recommend to go far pre-owned for the said budget then sacrificing the quality and going in for new one just for sake of ?? ( what god only knows).

In my experience the old models are 100 times better then the new one as their build quality is Un-Equaled !! I can write a whole thesis on the Old Vs New but this not the time and right place so skipping ;) !

Bottom line within small budget,its 100% safe and most intelligent option to go for pre-owned !!

Now coming to Mr.Mridulgoel's suggestions ! with all due respect to you !!

why are you calling a three channel setup (or speakers) as 2.1 ?? the correct definition of 2.1 or rather any .1 is , The .1 is always a sub and remains that way (untill the people who invented it decides to change) So a center channel cannot be called as .1 !!

More over why and where in the gods name did center channel come to Stereo sound :eek: ?? and why are you propagating the use of center channel ?? yes agreed that he is looking for a set-up which can play a dual role (music and movies) but in what way will center channel help in music mode ?? also when you've suggested bookshelf's from 2 companies doesn't it make sense to buy a sub rather then the center ??

Sure for movies the center does its job ( however there are other ways to get the dedicated center channel sound without using it !!) but for music ??, instead of center if the sub is bought, it not only enhances the sound of music (by compensating the lack of low frequencies of the bookshelf's ) but also can be used for movies !!

lastly when you suggest not to buy pre-owned and suggest to buy new one from abroad !! doesn't both the equations turn out to be of same risk ?? if he buys the pre-owned,he's own his own without warranty,same is the case with stuff brought abroad !!


Finally my sincere suggestion please please do not go for AVR at 10 or 12K its absolutely useless !! you'll never enjoy the sound !! to start with go for a pre-owned gear with stereo ( or two channel) as the standard option,if you carve that much for multi-channel then later on you buy a AVR for movie's while retaining the stereo Amp for music (now here again I hope you understand the idea,if not ask I'll explain)

Hope I've not offended anyone !! Am just trying to help a beginner go in the right direction !!

Regards.
 

unleash_me

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...My first post after being a lurker for some time... I am researching a HiFi system under a shoe string budget of Rs 30,000. I am mostly into jazz/rock - classic & progressive/ Indian classical - Hindustani and Carnatic....
@the risk of inviting wrath from many here, IMHO - if this is the max you can spend- go for the excellent Onkyo CR515 and a pair of Tannoy F1 Custom. This can take any entry level hifi seperates headon!
 

mridulgoel

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Hi,
why are you calling a three channel setup (or speakers) as 2.1 ?? the correct definition of 2.1 or rather any .1 is , The .1 is always a sub and remains that way (untill the people who invented it decides to change) So a center channel cannot be called as .1 !!

More over why and where in the gods name did center channel come to Stereo sound :eek: ?? and why are you propagating the use of center channel ?? yes agreed that he is looking for a set-up which can play a dual role (music and movies) but in what way will center channel help in music mode ?? also when you've suggested bookshelf's from 2 companies doesn't it make sense to buy a sub rather then the center ??

Regards.

Hey Buddy...

All i can say is SORRY Buddy...
I know, center is not a part of a stereo system, and 2.1 refers to a sub...

but maybe i was in my dreams, so by mistake mentioned 2.1 Channel system, as to stereo...
Sorry again bro...

my limelights will get me gutter lights, if i will do like that...

Sorry Suhas...

Okies...
but, regarding the amp, i agree with suhas and you to go for a second hand amp, and i think an average stereo amp, should easily be available for 10-12K, i am not aware of second hand market, forgive me if thts not so...
Yes but reagrding speakers...
Nowadays, we are getting good enough speakers, in the range of 10K-20K, so y go for old ones..

Thats what i think, but, yes as you people mention, that the second hand stuff is really good, then i cant comment...

Please do let me know, Suhas or anyone, whu's goin in for second hand stuff...
I am planning for Myryad Amp and Dali Speakers, but they are beyond my reach...
I may go for second hand stuff, if i get good response from you people..

Thanks a lot in advance..

Thanking You

Mridul Goel
 

Rajiv

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[/More over why and where in the gods name did center channel come to Stereo sound ?? QUOTE]

Hi

Below is an extract from a Stereophile article.

"Center Forward
Using a center speaker to enhance the reproduction of two-channel stereo signals is an idea that dates back as far as the early stereo experiments conducted at Bell Laboratories in the early 1930s. With film sound foremost in mind, the Bell team developed a three-channel, three-loudspeaker stereo system, the use of a center channel being favored because it better locked the sonic image to the screen image for viewers offset to one or other side of the auditorium, and better tracked the movement of sound sources across the screen. In the course of development, though, Bell compared its full three-channel stereo system with various alternatives, including two-channel recordings reproduced using a derived center channel (footnote 1). Paul Klipsch revived this idea in the late 1950s, performing a series of experiments (footnotes 2??5) that led him to conclude that using three loudspeakers to reproduce two-channel stereo signals offers superior results.

The method used by Bell and Klipsch to generate the signal for the third, centrally placed loudspeaker was as simple as could be. The left and right stereo channels were summed and subject to appropriate, perhaps variable, attenuation. So, using L to represent the left-channel signal and R the right-channel signal, the center speaker was fed k(L+R) , where k is less than 1 and represents the applied attenuation.

Although Klipsch was enthusiastic about the benefits of his 2, 2, 3 approach (two recording channels, two transmission channels, three loudspeakers)??claiming that "All the stereo recording systems are amenable to using a derived central channel and the expense is small for a large gain in stereo geometry"4??the idea of using a third loudspeaker did not catch on and the concept faded from view.

If this was due, at least in part, to a third loudspeaker and amplifier being financially and domestically unacceptable in the early 1960s, then the arrival of home-theater systems in the early 1990s??equipped with a center-channel speaker as standard??represented an opportunity to resurrect the concept. This was duly exploited when Michael Gerzon presented a paper describing an elaborated 2, 2, 3 system at the 91st Convention of the Audio Engineering Society in October 1991 (footnote 6).

Although the idea was inspired by home theater and the need to provide better locking of the audio and visual images over a wider listening area, that wasn't the only benefit of Gerzon's system. He also claimed improved image focus and reduced listening fatigue for a listener in the stereo hot seat. What Gerzon was suggesting with the latter claim was that a central loudspeaker can reduce the amount of unconscious work the brain has to do to construct a credible soundstage from just two channels.

Drawing on the psychoacoustic knowledge he had incorporated into Ambisonics, what Gerzon described in his paper were improved methods for replaying M channels over N loudspeakers, where N is greater than M. In the simplest case, where M=2 and N=3??ie, the generation of a center channel from a two-channel stereo signal??his scheme became known as Trifield processing when the rights to it were bought by Trifield Productions Ltd. in the UK. Trifield, in common with all of Gerzon's "optimum reproduction matrices," is frequency-dependent, which gives it much improved performance compared with Klipsch's simple bridged center channel."



I have seen several vintage stereo amps with speaker connections for a center channel output.A friend of mine uses his Fisher X1000 EL34 tube integrated amp with three big vintage JBL speakers.

Regards
Rajiv
 

soundsgreat

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Hi Mridul,

Its ok no probs !! its just that you said twice the same thing ( referred 2.1 in two posts) and certain things,So I had to intervene.

Am glad that our words have had such an major impact on you that you, A guy who swore by new have decided to buy a pre-owned stuff :)!! But don't just depend on this forum for response to buy some, also look at different places,Am sure you'll find what you want !! I know couple people who are into pre-owned stuff,so if you want please PM me for more details !!

Regards.
 
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soundsgreat

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Hi,

Rajiv what you've posted is very good example of center usage. yes its a very old theory of summing Left and Right (L+R) for center and subtracting Left and Right (L-R) for surrounds !! but we are talking bout things in general that the majority use and is in existence !! that was what the point of my quote ( atleast thats what I meant ).

if it were so popular and truly beneficial,then the guys like Nelson Pass,Bob Carver,Ken-Ishiwata and others to name a few, would made it a common practice to include this center channel in all their otherwise two channel designs and it would've been the norm of any stereo sound ( I don't what they would've called it then) even today as opposed to it being an extinct species !!

Otherwise as Anil has posted there's something called holographic recording which when played through a good pair of headphones will give you a multichannel sound and 3 dimensional sound that no regular speaker can ever reproduce !! Now can we take that point and say that we should negate the use of the conventional speakers altogether ?? there are several other examples like this !!

I think whenever we quote ( or atleast I ) its always in general and normal practice thats followed all over the world !!

Regards.
 

SuhasG

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Please do let me know, Suhas or anyone, whu's goin in for second hand stuff...
I am planning for Myryad Amp and Dali Speakers, but they are beyond my reach...
I may go for second hand stuff, if i get good response from you people..

Thanks a lot in advance..

Thanking You

Mridul Goel
AFAIK there are no shops in India, specializing in pre-owned gear. Now what to do?

1> Spread the word; tell as many people as you can about your interest in any specific brand & model of an audio gear. Who knows, somewhere or other something will click. Placing an advt ('WANTED:.....") on various forums, audio magazines might help.

2> If you know anybody owning that specific brand & model of an audio gear, contact him/her, check whether s/he is interested in selling that stuff (of course this is a very delicate and difficult task, needs quite a diplomacy!) .

Existing investment is what blocking people from upgrading, if they come to know that they can get a reasonable value for their existing gear, they might take the plunge

3> Many Hifi dealers often have some 'trade-ins?? / demo items, do check with them at periodic intervals, at least let them know that you are keen in buying that specific brand & model of an audio gear.

In short try in all possible directions and have considerable patience.

Hope this helps

SUhas
 

koushikp

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Hi,

I don't see any of the members posting anything about Norge speakers. I think the Norge TWR125 floorstanders (17k, 3 way) is a very good buy for that budget, they also make the amp...their best amp (forgot the series name, its Norge Gold something) comes for about 10k...its a no frills amplifire, does not have a remote, but the combo sounds amazing, better that many combos at twice the price, A friend of mine has bought that system recently and it sounds amazing, you should definitely go and check it out..go to their factory in Mahim and listen to the speakers before buying anything...

If you can strech your budget a little more, go for the Cambridge Stereo amp, the entry level one comes for about 17k..the mordaunt short speakers go very well with the CA amps... audition the avant 904i (Rs. 14k, 2 way floorstanders) or 906i (Rs. 21k, 2.5 way floorstander)
 

ranjeetrain

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I am researching a HiFi system under a shoe string budget of Rs 30,000. I am mostly into jazz/rock - classic & progressive/ Indian classical - Hindustani and Carnatic.

I am looking to buy a decent amp plus a pair of floor standers or if not affordable, a pair of decent bookshelves.
At that budget I strongly recommend you Norge. Entry level products from International brands are a costly proportion. Norge will fit well within that budget and will offer a very good value for money.
 

ranjeetrain

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Up until now I haven't heard anything except for Bose Acoustimass bookshelves - does anyone have any opinions on these? (curiously no one talks bose on these forums - why?)
Bose is known to be terrible value for money. They are way over priced and don't reproduce sound as accurately as expected by audiophiles. They are known as lifestyle products rather than hifi.
 
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